Suppressors colt 1911's

ak0prter

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I am currently looking at the Colt Government .45 ACP. I want a 1911 that will last my lifetime and can be passed on through the genreations.

Please let me know if thats the best for the money or if I should look elswere.

TIA
 

s4b1106

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Re: colt 1911's

Well, I think if you pick a quality manufacturer (Colt, Springfield, Kimber, etc.) you have chosen a design to last for time. The actual design is 100 years old this year! I work on a few of them in my department. They all seem good. I have a Taurus that I had issues with when I bought it new. (Most of the issues are with Taurus customer service!) After we got the bugs worked out it is an awesome shooter. If I had a complaint now, it would be that the blueing is kinda thin, and they didn't standardize the sight dovetails. If I remember right, at my Colt armorer's class, they said that Colt, Springfield, and Taurus are some of the last manufaturers that are still forging the frames and the slides. I carry a Colt stainless government model for a duty weapon and love it. The right sights and it is the best duty weapon I have ever carried. My father has a Remington Rand 1911 that came home with my great cousin after WWII. It is a beautiful gun and the only reason that we don't shoot it anymore is that it is bone stock as issued and in great shape. They do hold up! Buy a few spare parts (Springs, extractors, firing pins) to keep around just in case and you are good to go.
 

ak0prter

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Re: colt 1911's

Ok cool thanks, my duty weapon as of now is a XD45, but I have always had a passion for the 1911's. Im pretty back and forth between the Springfield Operator and Colt Gov. I have a friend that has a Taurus and loves it, but he hasnt shot it much. But thanks for the info.
 

MinorDamage

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Re: colt 1911's

I want to preface this with the fact that I am not bashing Colt. Colt has had numerous quality control issues over the past few years. However, Colt has a strong following and still puts out quality equipment (you just can't readily count on it like other manufacturers). A Colt is a wonderful place to start for a full custom gun. Send it to someone like John Harrison or Ted Yost and you have a true HEIRLOOM quality firearm. If I were to buy a Colt it would only be to send it to someone for a full custom job. If you are looking for something older, a used Colt from WWII would be a true conversation piece...just not so sure you will want to shoot it. Do yourself a favor and get a series 70 if you get one. Don't get tripped into that series 80 crap.

Josh
 

s4b1106

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Re: colt 1911's

My Taurus had several demons in it, part of them caused by improper fit and finish, including some really poor Metal Injection Molded components, of which I am not a fan. I will tell you is that most of the lower cost pistols from any manufacturer use Metal Injection Molded internals. Colt, not so much, at least as of several years ago. Most of my internals in all of my 1911s are now Wilson, which is what Colt uses in all of their custom shop guns. I just don't think you can go wrong with a 1911. I know that I am prejudiced about it, but there you are!
 

s4b1106

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Re: colt 1911's

I would agree that Colt has had some QC issues over the years, but in working on numerous different 1911's, to some extent they all do. You have to remember that with a 1911, the gun has to be hand fit during the manufacturing process. It isn't a drop-in gun like a Glock. Trying to get people with the training and experience to make the guns and keep them priced competitively with other modern pistols is a daunting challenge. As a result, whether due to lack of skilled craftsmen, or pressure to put out so many guns at a time, every U.S. manufacturer seems to have some issues. UNLESS you pay for the custom shop guns. So if you want to have a perfect gun, buy one intending it as a base gun. But I have no complaints about my Colt. The only reason parts were changed in it was to fit me better and to get the correct trigger pull for a street gun. As armorer I did all of the work myself and I am no great gun guru, but I have had no problems at all with the pistol. And it is a series 80. There is no real reason to go with the 80 but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. Some claim that there is a difference in the feel of the trigger, but to me it isn't significant enough to make a difference and it has never been an issue with any of my department officers carring 1911s. I am not saying that those who claim it is a problem are wrong, just that for the typical shooter it doesn't create a noticable difference. When I was at Colt school, they did tell me that there was never a documented case of a 70 failing, but the legal department insisted on the safety. Keep in mind, however, this is a combat handgun, not a benchrest or bullseye shooter. I still have a long way to go before I can outshoot this gun. Whatever you get, make sure that it is all parts compatible and standardized for a 1911. Some manufacturers (early Taurus for example) made guns that some of the components wouldn't interchange with a standard 1911. That could be a problem down the road, and limits customization potential out of the gate.
 

MinorDamage

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Re: colt 1911's

I didn't say anything about MIM parts. I have a Springfield Loaded and it has MIM in it...no issues. The quality control I was talking about is poor machining and then letting it get out the door. Again, ALL manufacturers will have turds. Colt seemed to have more than their fair share. Just like a well known bullet manufacturer, Colt was using a lot of outdated equipment while everyone else was going full out with new CNC machines. Colt has made great firearms...and they still do. I stated that they generally need a bit more work than others. I understand how 1911s are hand fit, but that doesn't excuse poor fitting. They had some rough patches and I am sure that hit their product unfavorably.

Bottom line...you can get a crappy pistol from any of the maufacturers. Colt just seemed to have the toughest time as of late. So, if it were my Colt, I would be sending it off to a gunsmith for a custom build.

Just so you know I am not spouting unfounded nonsense; here are some links...with pictures! You can find issues with all manufacturers (people more times than not post about the bad). You'll find more info on QC problems WRT Colt than other companies lately.

Exhibit 1
Exhibit 2
Exhibit 3

Josh
 

s4b1106

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Re: colt 1911's

I understand what you are saying. I believe that Colt has changed their production over to CNC now. I was at my school about 1 1/2 years ago and supposedly they were changing/ had changed then. And you are very correct, there is no excuse for something like that getting out the door. That was my first complaint with Taurus. I do know that the Colt instructor was lamenting that all of the old talent was leaving from age related attrition, and they couldn't get enough people to apprentice at the wages they felt they had to pay to stay competitive. As to MIM, it isn't necessarily bad, I just don't like it. I know how well forged and machined parts are gonna hold up, MIM stuff, I don't. My MIM safety on the Taurus was broken the second time it was returned. I don't know that it was broken because it was MIM, but due the location and appearance of the break I have to think it was a factor. I don't know how well it case hardens, so it has the potential of having a soft surface for the sear face and hammer hooks. Again, not saying it is bad, just that I personally don't trust it. Just an opinion.
 

tacticalrifleman

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Re: colt 1911's

I have had many Colt 1911's including one made in 1914 and they were all excellent pistols. The above posters are correct sometimes you might need to get a little tuning or work done, but that could be true for any brand. You could also get a perfect one that doesn't need anything done to it, I have been lucky and never had to have anything done to the ones I have had. I am the kind of guy that shoots my pistols a lot so take that for what it's worth that is my personal experience.

I really like the 70 series, and the pre 70 series as they seem to be of higher average quality. I like the standard government model, the gold cup, and a nice well done custom based on the government model from wilson, or novak, or whoever your favorite 1911 guy is. The WWII and prewar models can be found in very good condition and make very good family heirloom guns. A lot of it has to do with individual tastes, but if you are someone who may get into a different direction with your collection these colts hold their value/increase in value very well, you really can't go wrong with them.
 

ak0prter

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Re: colt 1911's

Well as of right now I'm looking at the government model. No matter which one I get, it will be geared up with most likely Wilson parts. I already ordered the brownells 1911 catalog to start looking at upgrades. I have heard nothing but amazing things about Wilson and his quality of parts. But thanks for all the input. Other then Wilson, who else is out there that makes good parts and upgrades for the 1911?

Also I hope that I will be able to do most of my work myself for most if not all of the easier stuff. I'm a bit of a gear head and the son of a machinest so I can do alot of my own work and currently do with my rifles. I have no problem sendin it all to a smith, but I like to really know how it all works. Not to mention the pride of doing my own work.

Can't wait to get my 1911 and customize it

Sean
 

ggmanning

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Have you considered Wilson, Nighthawk, Ed Brown and Les Baer (there are others these are my personal favorites)? More money but if you are thinking high quality last a lifetime and pass down those are what comes to my mind for me. Good guts available from all of these...not sure of Nighthawk but the others sell parts.
     

    ChadJamesR

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    Re: colt 1911's

    If you are looking for something to hold value and hand down through the family, the Colt is probably your best bet. They typically have a looser fit, but most all gun smiths say if you are going to build a 1911 for value, use a Colt as the base gun. Most smiths I know prefer to build on a Springfield instead.

    Don't worry about the 70 series and 80 series debate. You can make either trigger very good. Some of my 80 series are as smooth as my 70 series and none have ever failed. The 80 series just has the firing pin block so the gun cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled.

    Wilson makes good parts, but I wouldn't say he is the end all. You have to look at parts from EGW, Brown, Smith & Alexander, etc. Cylinder & Slide probably makes the best fire control parts (trigger, hammer, sear). The stock Colt barrel is good, but if you want to fit one, look at Barsto for a Stainless barrel and Kart for a chrome moly.

    To make the parts fit takes years of knowledge as well as specialized jigs and/or a mill.

    Check out the 1911 forums for suggestions on how to do the work yourself.

    If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me. I live 3 miles down the road from John Harrison and he has given me a lot of insight.

    Chad
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Awsome thanks for the offer. But yes I have looked at Wilson and Les Baer but not much at nighthawk. They all look great, but I think I like the idea of a beefed up colt or springer. But the debate in my head is still bouncing back and forth between those 2. Why do most smiths you know say they like the uprgaded springers instead of colts? Or the other way around? I am a huge fan of Springfield and own several weapons from them so a 1911 would just come home to it family, I only know a few people that own colts. All I know is that anyone that has a colt says they will never carry another 1911, and most others say they wouldn't mind having a colt. If anyone can explain why other then they like the name then please do.
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Also I have started looking at the colt commanders for a ccw. Should I stick with the full size or dose it not really matter? Thanks for the input.
     

    smokshwn

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Not to say that Colt is shitty, but for comparable price there are much better values to be found. Colt tends to have a reputation that may be inflated when compared to the actual quality of the work they put out.

    For a production gun STI offers a lot of pistol for the money. At any given price point they can usually offer a couple of extra features and overall it is a smaller production line with a little higher build quality than the big boys.

    http://www.stiguns.com
     
    G

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    Re: colt 1911's

    To the OP,

    You have to consider where a lot of these guys are coming from. You are posting this question to some men whose lives depend on a functional firearm. Others compete and also demand a lot from their equipment. To some of us, $2k on a 1911 or $4k on a rifle is an after thought. That being said, take suggestions with a grain of salt and stay on track with your own thoughts and goals and not some other cat's. While the Les Baer's and NightHawks are nice guns, if a Colt will suffice for you, then get a Colt.

    That being said, there was a thread on here not long ago posted by some ass-clown that wanted an "heirloom" that really just wanted to hear himself talk....stay the hell away from it....don't even look at it.

    If you want an heirloom to pass down, make it your own. Even if you went with a SA over Colt cause you like the crossed canons on the slide more than the pony.....it's still YOUR input. No shame in liking something cause you like it. Hell I took so much shit for my comped Colt Gold Cups, but I don't care....I like it and that's all that matters.

    Now, down to business. Any major company Colt, SA, Kimber, etc has had more than their share of QC issues in recent years. I have even seen some higher end Wilson Combats and Ed Brown guns that have made return trips to fix issues. Don't let it scare you, it's just the nature of the system.

    I have owned more than a dozen or so Colt 1911's in various models and series. I have had some out of the box beauties, and some were real turds. The one being worked on now had a plastic trigger for crying out loud. None the less, every one has become the foundation for a great custom build. And depending on your knowledge, take a look at someone like Caspian if you have very specific tastes for what you want.

    If you make it your own, you really can't go wrong.
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Like you said alot of these guys compete or depend on their sidearm to save their lives. I am a liscenced peace officer trying to get on with a department. Because of this is why I want one of the best 1911's out there, or to build one up to what I want. Right now I have an XD45 as my duty weapon, but I am thinking about replacing it with a 1911 or just being able to trade them out every once in a while. Either way the 1911 will most likely be some sort of ccw for me also, if that's the case then it needs to be dependable since it will be gaurding me and my family.

    Regaurding cost, I am more then willing to put the cash down for a good weapon. I believe you get what you pay for in most cases, but at the same time there are some over priced 1911's out there.

    Either way, alot of people I talk to say that buying the colt or Springfield and builting it to suit me is pretty much the best thing to do if I truley want it to be "mine". My biggest conflict as of now is which one of them is a better base to build off of.
     
    G

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Honestly, if you know what you want out of the build, starting from scratch with a Caspian slide and/or frame is not a bad way to go. I just received a fresh Caspian slide and was very impressed with it their work. It will be mated with a Colt frame and it will probably be the crown jewel of my collection.

    I currently carry 2 different Colts for off-duty carry and have never had issues with either. Granted both have had heavy work done (one with John Harrison, another with Robar), but I would not hesitate to carry a mostly stock Colt provided it has at least had a basic carry package done by a good smith. I also insist on Heinie sights and a trigger job since it's already in for work, but that's just me.
     

    doc76251

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Agree much with PB4455,

    Any mfg can make a turd, unless you buy a used pistol from someone w/ a clue, you won't know what your into until you are well down the road. Your desire to turn this pistol into something that can be passed down is a worthy endeavor and that may guide your decision on what platform you wish to get. Your desire to customize it will certainly make it your own. Add in years of carry as well as the stories that will inevitably grow from it and it will make the piece priceless to your heirs but may make it "just another 1911" to anyone else.

    My simple recommendation is buy what you like and then do the enhancement work yourself. The process of fitting parts and making enhancements will add to the value placed on it by your heirs as well as the knowledge you gain from "getting into" the pistol. I bought my Colt Officers Model on my 21st birthday and have tuned and tweeked it to it's current state. It's scratched, dinged, dusty, dirty and pretty much looks like hell. That being said it has 80,000+ rounds through it, the "blue" parts are now permanently "brown" or "shiny". It goes bang every time it is called upon to perform no matter how much neglect I have shown it. It points as instinctively as I can point my finger, first round hits are pretty much a given. Both my boys know it as "Daddy's 45", my wife knows it as "Thumper". It is as much a part of me as any other thing that can be used to describe me.

    Choose what makes you happy and then make it your own. Don't baby it, USE it. When it comes time to pass it on, your heirs can sit around the camp fire and say "I can remember my Dad's .45, we were ...... and he did......"

    Cheers,

    Doc
     

    Downzero

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Whatever problems Colt may have, they still won't produce such an awful product as Taurus.
     

    MinorDamage

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    Re: colt 1911's

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever problems Colt may have, they still won't produce such an awful product as Taurus. </div></div>

    Sage advice. If you are going to build one get some Caspian parts or get a Colt. I have a Springfield and it has never failed...ever. If you are going to change stuff out to make it more reliable and want a collectors piece you should look into the Colt. STI makes a great pistol as well, I am just not big on some of their rollmarks.

    Josh
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    STI looks like it has great stuff, but i don't like "GAURDIAN" or whatever series it is down the slide. Besides I like the look of the more original style 1911's. I want to start with one like my grandpa used to have before it got "lost" as i was told. He had a colt but I'm not sure which one. I don't know if it was the one he carried in Vietnam but hopefully one day I will be able to find it. He cared to much for his guns to let anyone claim to lose one. If I could get his then the heirloom pistol role would instantly be fulfilled, but I don't think that will ever happen.
     

    oldgrayone

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Spend a little extra and buy a good clean 70 series Gold Cup. Get a few good wilson mags and shoot 230 ball ammo through it. Change the spring when it needs it and this will last you, your kids and your grand kids a life time.
     

    s4b1106

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    Re: colt 1911's

    One thing that I would caution you on. If you are going to carry this weapon as a law enforcement duty weapon, you may want to have any custom work done by a reputable gunsmith and have him document the work. Depending on the agency that you hire on with, they may not allow you to carry it if you have done the work yourself. In fact, they may not allow it at all if it isn't stock. That is up to the department. The fewer mods you do, the more it is likely to pass. Only recently has my department allowed us mods on duty weapons beyond grips and sights.
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    Wow ok thanks for the heads up, I have never heard of departments limiting what you can carry because of mods or doing personal work. I will keep that in mind.
     

    s4b1106

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    Re: colt 1911's

    It's pretty common. Some years ago it was totally the norm, but these days agencies are becoming more enlightened. Fortunately for me, as the department armorer, I have a lot of say in what we allow and I am usually pretty easy to get along with. I do insist that if they want to do work on it themselves, I am there to hold their hands. I will help them and show them anything they want to know, and I know many are capable, but I have seen a lot of crap work, too, and in the end, I am the one who has to certify it for the street. If they bring in work that another smith has done, I want paperwork to back it. Part of it is to assure that it doesn't fail on them when it hits the fan, but part of it is also to cover my ass, and that too is important to me and my family.
     

    David300

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    Re: colt 1911's

    I have 4 Colts and 2 Springfields and 1 I built my self, I trust every one of them to work. The Colt has a lower (duck bill)grip safty that is not as comfortable if you have large hands. I also do not care for the plastic main spring housing(cheap fix).I did have to adjust the tension on the extractor on my lightweight commander after about 4-500 rounds.
    I like the grip safty on the Springfields (beaver tail) because I have large hands.
    All of mine shoot great and shoot better than I do.
    Pick the one that has the features that you want and fits you best and go with it...
     

    ak0prter

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    Re: colt 1911's

    I need to go and shoot both ofthem side by side, I have pretty big hands but the colt seemed to be ok. I haven't held a springer in a while, but there's a range not to far from my house that you can rent handguns I will see if they have both. But either way I believe that I will be happy because I will be upgrading it.
     

    GBMaryland

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    Re: colt 1911's

    If you are looking for something more like a match pistol, you want to get something from MCP:

    http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/

    Of course, I'm still trying to get all of the pictures and product details on the new website for my bud the owns the company.

    These are very similar to the Browning built Smith and Wesson 1911's that are currently available.