Re: compact 308 home shop build
Awsome thread and rifle. Beat you can't wait to see how it shoots.
Awsome thread and rifle. Beat you can't wait to see how it shoots.
Gunsmithing compact 308 home shop build
- Thread starter 300sniper
- Start date
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Would you mind explaining what runout is?
Would you mind explaining what runout is?
Re: compact 308 home shop build
well i sent a few rounds down range just now. i realized i didn't even have a screw driver at the house small enough to adjust the remington trigger. i will have to wait until i can get back down to the shop to adjust it. i had to settle for what feels like an easy 8lb trigger for testing. i still don't have any reloading components or dies for 308 but i found some ancient federal match 168 ammo in the back of my closet. it wouldn't surprise at all if it was close to 10 years old. the price label on the boxes is $18.99.
anyways, i just looked through the bore at the target 100 yards away and adjusted my cross hair to the same spot. my first round was about 4-1/2" low and 1-1/2" to the left. i made a correction and fired another round. it was in the ball park so i finished off a 5 round group. i think i pulled one shot in that group but i didn't call it to myself. it still measures .649" and 4 of the 5 went into .391". i decided to fire another 5 round group real quick. this time i know i pulled a shot and i am blaming that on the heavy trigger. the 4 that i didn't screw up went into a .354" group. the pulled shot opened it up to a .781". i guess the barrel is broken in now
.
i am very happy with that muzzle brake. there is really no recoil at all. i don't even have anything to compare it to as everything i own has more recoil. maybe similar to a heavy .243 i shot a few through a couple weeks back. i don't have a scale here at the house but i am guessing it to weigh between 12 and 13 pounds. at this point, i am not even sure i am going to flute the barrel. i don't know if i want it any lighter. i will probably shoot it for a while before i decide.
shots 2 through 6 out of the barrel.
shots 7 through 11 out of the barrel.
poser shot with my recycled scope and bipod.
well i sent a few rounds down range just now. i realized i didn't even have a screw driver at the house small enough to adjust the remington trigger. i will have to wait until i can get back down to the shop to adjust it. i had to settle for what feels like an easy 8lb trigger for testing. i still don't have any reloading components or dies for 308 but i found some ancient federal match 168 ammo in the back of my closet. it wouldn't surprise at all if it was close to 10 years old. the price label on the boxes is $18.99.
anyways, i just looked through the bore at the target 100 yards away and adjusted my cross hair to the same spot. my first round was about 4-1/2" low and 1-1/2" to the left. i made a correction and fired another round. it was in the ball park so i finished off a 5 round group. i think i pulled one shot in that group but i didn't call it to myself. it still measures .649" and 4 of the 5 went into .391". i decided to fire another 5 round group real quick. this time i know i pulled a shot and i am blaming that on the heavy trigger. the 4 that i didn't screw up went into a .354" group. the pulled shot opened it up to a .781". i guess the barrel is broken in now
i am very happy with that muzzle brake. there is really no recoil at all. i don't even have anything to compare it to as everything i own has more recoil. maybe similar to a heavy .243 i shot a few through a couple weeks back. i don't have a scale here at the house but i am guessing it to weigh between 12 and 13 pounds. at this point, i am not even sure i am going to flute the barrel. i don't know if i want it any lighter. i will probably shoot it for a while before i decide.
shots 2 through 6 out of the barrel.
shots 7 through 11 out of the barrel.
poser shot with my recycled scope and bipod.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
do the surefire brakes index on the shoulder or on the crown, i ask because there seems to be a gap at the shoulder. probably just an illusion. Thanks for the very detailed and informative thread I know myself and others greatly appreciate posts like this
do the surefire brakes index on the shoulder or on the crown, i ask because there seems to be a gap at the shoulder. probably just an illusion. Thanks for the very detailed and informative thread I know myself and others greatly appreciate posts like this
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dferg77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do the surefire brakes index on the shoulder or on the crown, i ask because there seems to be a gap at the shoulder. probably just an illusion. Thanks for the very detailed and informative thread I know myself and others greatly appreciate posts like this </div></div>
They index on a shoulder inside the brake, or where you see the first step in the barrel after the threads. That gap at the rear is to be sure the can clears the barrel if the barrel happens to be larger in diameter then the brake.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dferg77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do the surefire brakes index on the shoulder or on the crown, i ask because there seems to be a gap at the shoulder. probably just an illusion. Thanks for the very detailed and informative thread I know myself and others greatly appreciate posts like this </div></div>
They index on a shoulder inside the brake, or where you see the first step in the barrel after the threads. That gap at the rear is to be sure the can clears the barrel if the barrel happens to be larger in diameter then the brake.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
got it thanks, HateCA
got it thanks, HateCA
Re: compact 308 home shop build
I have nothing to add, except to say that this simply rocks.
I have nothing to add, except to say that this simply rocks.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Thanks for sharing and answering all the questions also. You are to be commended for turning out a very nice appearing and useful dimensioned rifle, and recording its progress for all us wanna be smiths. May it shoot well and continue to bring you satisfaction.
Thanks for sharing and answering all the questions also. You are to be commended for turning out a very nice appearing and useful dimensioned rifle, and recording its progress for all us wanna be smiths. May it shoot well and continue to bring you satisfaction.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Nice work, I knew you would love that brake !
I love your fluting idea, If you end up doing that please post pictures, I might end up finding someone to do my Howa barrel
Nice work, I knew you would love that brake !
I love your fluting idea, If you end up doing that please post pictures, I might end up finding someone to do my Howa barrel
Re: compact 308 home shop build
This thread is too schweet! Thank you for the time it took to share.
This thread is too schweet! Thank you for the time it took to share.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
This is almost as good as having someone showing you first hand! Thanks for an awesome walk through!
This is almost as good as having someone showing you first hand! Thanks for an awesome walk through!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
After reading this and looking at the pictures my question is .... How long does this process take you ? It seems like you get this done very quickly.
After reading this and looking at the pictures my question is .... How long does this process take you ? It seems like you get this done very quickly.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ukdave28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading this and looking at the pictures my question is .... How long does this process take you ? It seems like you get this done very quickly. </div></div>
i spend more time thinking about doing it than i actually do doing it . it really depends on how motivated i am that day. if everything goes good, i have everything i need and i'm motivated, a barrel can be chambered and crowned in 4-5 hours. i try not to get in a hurry and have been doing the chamber one day and the muzzle work the next since i am not making money at it. things would be much different if it were a business and not a hobby.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ukdave28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading this and looking at the pictures my question is .... How long does this process take you ? It seems like you get this done very quickly. </div></div>
i spend more time thinking about doing it than i actually do doing it
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">things would be much different if it were a business and not a hobby. </div></div>
Three or four times now in my life I've had a chance to turn my hobby into a business. Every time I've decided negative. No regrets. Enjoy your abilities. More power to you if you can make money and still have fun.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">things would be much different if it were a business and not a hobby. </div></div>
Three or four times now in my life I've had a chance to turn my hobby into a business. Every time I've decided negative. No regrets. Enjoy your abilities. More power to you if you can make money and still have fun.
John
Re: compact 308 home shop build
That is FAST... I will some day (maybe later in life) invest in the equipment to do this kind of work. I will continue to read everything I can.
That is FAST... I will some day (maybe later in life) invest in the equipment to do this kind of work. I will continue to read everything I can.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Another excellent build. Well done!
Another excellent build. Well done!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
well i decided to flute the barrel. in all honesty, i probably did it more for the bling factor than any other reason. i think it removed about a half pound from the barrel if i did my math correctly. i had a few different ideas for flutes in mind but in the end i decided to just go with (10) 3/16" flutes, .094" deep. this was at the limit of my machines size capability with the 4th axis and tailstock set up. i had enough travel but had to cheat how i mounted the tailstock a bit to get it to fit. the set up on this was a pain trying to get everything aligned. i wanted support in the center of the barrel but i didn't want it to deflect it at all. it took a long time to get dialed in but eventually i was satisfied. next time i am paying the barrel manufacture to flute it in advance. a few hours of set-up time, an hour of machine time and then clean up time is just not worth it.
first thing i did was engrave an index mark on the pinned recoil lug and barrel so i knew exactly where to torque it to when i reinstall the barrel. this mark will also be used to find the center of the top flute.
next i got the 4th axis set up. i placed my vise on some 123 blocks to make it taller. i placed a vee block in the vise to support the center of the barrel. it may be hokey but it worked.
once i got the barrel all dialed in, i needed to figure out how much taper there was. i ran a dial indicator along the top of the barrel over the length of travel that the flutes were going to be. this allowed me to write a program to compensate for that and keep the flutes an even depth.
i wrote a quick program for the flutes and let-er rip.
well i decided to flute the barrel. in all honesty, i probably did it more for the bling factor than any other reason. i think it removed about a half pound from the barrel if i did my math correctly. i had a few different ideas for flutes in mind but in the end i decided to just go with (10) 3/16" flutes, .094" deep. this was at the limit of my machines size capability with the 4th axis and tailstock set up. i had enough travel but had to cheat how i mounted the tailstock a bit to get it to fit. the set up on this was a pain trying to get everything aligned. i wanted support in the center of the barrel but i didn't want it to deflect it at all. it took a long time to get dialed in but eventually i was satisfied. next time i am paying the barrel manufacture to flute it in advance. a few hours of set-up time, an hour of machine time and then clean up time is just not worth it.
first thing i did was engrave an index mark on the pinned recoil lug and barrel so i knew exactly where to torque it to when i reinstall the barrel. this mark will also be used to find the center of the top flute.
next i got the 4th axis set up. i placed my vise on some 123 blocks to make it taller. i placed a vee block in the vise to support the center of the barrel. it may be hokey but it worked.
once i got the barrel all dialed in, i needed to figure out how much taper there was. i ran a dial indicator along the top of the barrel over the length of travel that the flutes were going to be. this allowed me to write a program to compensate for that and keep the flutes an even depth.
i wrote a quick program for the flutes and let-er rip.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
the vee block left some marks on the barrel that i wanted to clean up. i chucked it up in the lathe and polished it out with some 600 grit sand paper and wd40.
then i had to engrave the caliber and secret signature on the barrel.
and that's all for today. tomorrow i should media blast it and spray the flat black moly resin.
the finish turned out nice in the flutes. it is going to be a shame to aluminum oxide blast it.
the vee block left some marks on the barrel that i wanted to clean up. i chucked it up in the lathe and polished it out with some 600 grit sand paper and wd40.
then i had to engrave the caliber and secret signature on the barrel.
and that's all for today. tomorrow i should media blast it and spray the flat black moly resin.
the finish turned out nice in the flutes. it is going to be a shame to aluminum oxide blast it.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
nice work....
nice work....
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those don't look like true radii at the end of the flutes. Does your program raise the ball cutter to taper the flute at the ends?
John </div></div>
yes. i ramped in and out of the cut.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those don't look like true radii at the end of the flutes. Does your program raise the ball cutter to taper the flute at the ends?
John </div></div>
yes. i ramped in and out of the cut.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Great job, 300sniper!
You want to lend me your mill for a few years?
I will swap you for my POS mini-mill!
Great job, 300sniper!
You want to lend me your mill for a few years?
I will swap you for my POS mini-mill!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Great work!!!
Great work!!!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
done?
i think so. i just sprayed the flat black moly resin and reassembled it. i need to order up some loading components on monday so i can start doing some load development. i have a couple boxes of federal match 168's left and i may head to my secret testing grounds and shoot a few rounds in a little bit.
here are some completed pictures.
done?
i think so. i just sprayed the flat black moly resin and reassembled it. i need to order up some loading components on monday so i can start doing some load development. i have a couple boxes of federal match 168's left and i may head to my secret testing grounds and shoot a few rounds in a little bit.
here are some completed pictures.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Real nice. Those flutes with the black barrel look great.
Brian
Real nice. Those flutes with the black barrel look great.
Brian
Re: compact 308 home shop build
You do good work! It tickles me to see someone jump in and go at it.
That moly resin finish is pretty tuff stuff. I did the slide of a Glock 19 for a friend of mine who was a Glock armorer. He would literally sling that little 19 across a room to show that the firing pin would not drop when the gun was beaten around. The finish held up very well.
Again, congratulations,
dAvid
You do good work! It tickles me to see someone jump in and go at it.
That moly resin finish is pretty tuff stuff. I did the slide of a Glock 19 for a friend of mine who was a Glock armorer. He would literally sling that little 19 across a room to show that the firing pin would not drop when the gun was beaten around. The finish held up very well.
Again, congratulations,
dAvid
Re: compact 308 home shop build
I get to see samples of his work perform each month at our local matches and they freaking shoooooooooot.
Robert..no more excuses for not ringing steel with us now!
I get to see samples of his work perform each month at our local matches and they freaking shoooooooooot.
Robert..no more excuses for not ringing steel with us now!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Thanks for the informative and interesting write up. I don't have any intentions of becoming a smith but I appreciate the craftsmanship and enjoy learning how these rifles are made.
Thanks for the informative and interesting write up. I don't have any intentions of becoming a smith but I appreciate the craftsmanship and enjoy learning how these rifles are made.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get to see samples of his work perform each month at our local matches and they freaking shoooooooooot.
Robert..no more excuses for not ringing steel with us now! </div></div>
even you would have been impressed with my 200 yard cold bore shot with the 284 today. and probably even impressed with the next 4 rounds too but yeah, i shouldn't have any excuses for not showing up to the steel match now. excuses for not winning, we know i can come up with all kinds of them .
ok, so i shot a little bit of this 308 today also. no groups to write home about but i did get a chance to shoot some of that old factory federal match 168 grain over a chrony. i got an average of 2645 fps over 7 rounds. that was better than i was expecting since the ammo box rates it at 2600 fps.
one thing i was really impressed about was the fact i had the scope rings off the rail, the rail off the receiver, the barrel off the receiver, the barrel fluted, the finish sprayed, and the zero was dead nuts upon reassembly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get to see samples of his work perform each month at our local matches and they freaking shoooooooooot.
Robert..no more excuses for not ringing steel with us now! </div></div>
even you would have been impressed with my 200 yard cold bore shot with the 284 today. and probably even impressed with the next 4 rounds too
ok, so i shot a little bit of this 308 today also. no groups to write home about but i did get a chance to shoot some of that old factory federal match 168 grain over a chrony. i got an average of 2645 fps over 7 rounds. that was better than i was expecting since the ammo box rates it at 2600 fps.
one thing i was really impressed about was the fact i had the scope rings off the rail, the rail off the receiver, the barrel off the receiver, the barrel fluted, the finish sprayed, and the zero was dead nuts upon reassembly.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
well it sounds like it is going to be next week before i get my reloading components. i shot the last of my federal match 168's today and it seems to shoot them very well. i ordered 1k of the 155 scenars, h4895 powder and lapua brass to try out. i have plenty of 215m and br2 primers on hand so i am not sure which ones i will run with this yet. hopefully i will have a good range report sometime next week.
this rig fit the compact theme very well. here it is next to a 14.5" barreled ar (yes the flash hider is permanently attached) for size comparison.
well it sounds like it is going to be next week before i get my reloading components. i shot the last of my federal match 168's today and it seems to shoot them very well. i ordered 1k of the 155 scenars, h4895 powder and lapua brass to try out. i have plenty of 215m and br2 primers on hand so i am not sure which ones i will run with this yet. hopefully i will have a good range report sometime next week.
this rig fit the compact theme very well. here it is next to a 14.5" barreled ar (yes the flash hider is permanently attached) for size comparison.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
nice job.
nice job.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Nice job.JW
Nice job.JW
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Nice project, I'm looking forward to a range report once you get your components.
What is the finished weight on this rifle?
Never handled a stock like that but like the fact that the grip looks narrower and closer to the trigger than say an A5, wonder how it would work for a hunting stock?
Nice project, I'm looking forward to a range report once you get your components.
What is the finished weight on this rifle?
Never handled a stock like that but like the fact that the grip looks narrower and closer to the trigger than say an A5, wonder how it would work for a hunting stock?
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice project, I'm looking forward to a range report once you get your components.
What is the finished weight on this rifle?
Never handled a stock like that but like the fact that the grip looks narrower and closer to the trigger than say an A5, wonder how it would work for a hunting stock? </div></div>
i am having trouble getting it to shoot with 155 scenars and my initial testing. my groups at 100 yards are terrible. i was thinking the lighter bullet would work better in a short barrel but i am starting to hear the 155 scenars don't like slower velocities. i had it out to 1k the other day and it made it there with 36.75 moa from a 100 yard zero. i shot a few rounds over a chrony the next day and it was in the upper 2700 fps range. that was with lapua brass, 44.0 grains h4895, 210m primer seated about .005" off the lands. i need to work with these bullets a bit more since i have them but i may end up going to the 175 smks.
i originally thought this rifle was lighter than it is. i hung it from a cheap fish scale and it looks like it is about 15 lbs complete. the weight is all centralized and makes it feel lighter. it is probably too heavy for most hunting. with it slung over a shoulder, it sits tight to the body so it may not be to bad.
i am going to play with the load a bit this week and hopefully have more time to spend between 200 and 1k yards next weekend. i think i need to spend some time reading in the reloading forums here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice project, I'm looking forward to a range report once you get your components.
What is the finished weight on this rifle?
Never handled a stock like that but like the fact that the grip looks narrower and closer to the trigger than say an A5, wonder how it would work for a hunting stock? </div></div>
i am having trouble getting it to shoot with 155 scenars and my initial testing. my groups at 100 yards are terrible. i was thinking the lighter bullet would work better in a short barrel but i am starting to hear the 155 scenars don't like slower velocities. i had it out to 1k the other day and it made it there with 36.75 moa from a 100 yard zero. i shot a few rounds over a chrony the next day and it was in the upper 2700 fps range. that was with lapua brass, 44.0 grains h4895, 210m primer seated about .005" off the lands. i need to work with these bullets a bit more since i have them but i may end up going to the 175 smks.
i originally thought this rifle was lighter than it is. i hung it from a cheap fish scale and it looks like it is about 15 lbs complete. the weight is all centralized and makes it feel lighter. it is probably too heavy for most hunting. with it slung over a shoulder, it sits tight to the body so it may not be to bad.
i am going to play with the load a bit this week and hopefully have more time to spend between 200 and 1k yards next weekend. i think i need to spend some time reading in the reloading forums here.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Sweet Moses!! Nice bolt guns there - excellent work!
Sweet Moses!! Nice bolt guns there - excellent work!
Re: compact 308 home shop build
Very nice build indeed. I just ordered a new Gunsmith lathe from Grizzly Tools. My old Hindey lathe built in 1898 just won't cut it for any really accurate stuff. Looking forward to doing my new .223 project myself.
This has been an inspirational thread.Thanks a ton.
Very nice build indeed. I just ordered a new Gunsmith lathe from Grizzly Tools. My old Hindey lathe built in 1898 just won't cut it for any really accurate stuff. Looking forward to doing my new .223 project myself.
This has been an inspirational thread.Thanks a ton.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
300Whisper, this has to be one of the best posts I have ever read on the Hide. Good work buddy.
I am marking this one as a saved post.
I am interested to see how your load development comes with the 155 Scenars, and the velocities you get.
300Whisper, this has to be one of the best posts I have ever read on the Hide. Good work buddy.
I am marking this one as a saved post.
I am interested to see how your load development comes with the 155 Scenars, and the velocities you get.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
At the moment I am thinking that I am not very happy with the OP.
Your gonna cost me money!!!! I am thinking I REALLY like that build and may have to do something like that myself.
At the moment I am thinking that I am not very happy with the OP.
Your gonna cost me money!!!! I am thinking I REALLY like that build and may have to do something like that myself.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H4895 is pretty fast in my experience. IMR 4895 is slower and may produce more velocity, even in your short barrel.
Did you consider trying the staples of Varget and RL15? </div></div>
i haven't tried anything else yet. i was thinking that a faster powder and lighter bullet would be the best choice for a shorter barrel. i may have to reevaluate my thinking if i can't get this combo to work.
i dicked around with it again yesterday and it looks like 44.4 grains of h4895, once fired lapua brass, 210m primer and a 155 scenar seated to 2.810" (.007" jump) works pretty good at 100 yards. i didn't have my chrony with me as i don't trust it anyways. i will load up a batch of this load and mess with it again between 200 and 1000 yards this weekend. i'll only bring this rifle so i have time to really evaluate it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H4895 is pretty fast in my experience. IMR 4895 is slower and may produce more velocity, even in your short barrel.
Did you consider trying the staples of Varget and RL15? </div></div>
i haven't tried anything else yet. i was thinking that a faster powder and lighter bullet would be the best choice for a shorter barrel. i may have to reevaluate my thinking if i can't get this combo to work.
i dicked around with it again yesterday and it looks like 44.4 grains of h4895, once fired lapua brass, 210m primer and a 155 scenar seated to 2.810" (.007" jump) works pretty good at 100 yards. i didn't have my chrony with me as i don't trust it anyways. i will load up a batch of this load and mess with it again between 200 and 1000 yards this weekend. i'll only bring this rifle so i have time to really evaluate it.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300,
how are you liking that brake as a standalone? </div></div>
it seems to work very well. i have not shot it without the brake but it sure doesn't have any recoil with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300,
how are you liking that brake as a standalone? </div></div>
it seems to work very well. i have not shot it without the brake but it sure doesn't have any recoil with it.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H4895 is pretty fast in my experience. IMR 4895 is slower and may produce more velocity, even in your short barrel.
Did you consider trying the staples of Varget and RL15? </div></div>
i haven't tried anything else yet. i was thinking that a faster powder and lighter bullet would be the best choice for a shorter barrel. i may have to reevaluate my thinking if i can't get this combo to work.
i dicked around with it again yesterday and it looks like 44.4 grains of h4895, once fired lapua brass, 210m primer and a 155 scenar seated to 2.810" (.007" jump) works pretty good at 100 yards. i didn't have my chrony with me as i don't trust it anyways. i will load up a batch of this load and mess with it again between 200 and 1000 yards this weekend. i'll only bring this rifle so i have time to really evaluate it. </div></div>
I don't think a faster powder will help you in a rifle. You need a powder that fills the case as much as possible to get max velocity.
It's not like loading for a pistol where burn rate can have substantial differences in whether or not the powder is completely burned by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. You have what, 18" of barrel? That's an awful long time when it comes to combustion. I'd imagine all of the powder is burned within that time, but the gasses are still heating and expanding.
I'm not a chemist or a physicist and I don't claim to have any knowledge of those subjects that'd be relevant here. In fact, I have never taken a physics class for credit.
But, my experience with H4985 vs. IMR 4895 with my M1 Garand suggests that there is a pretty serious difference in burn rate between the two, with IMR being more like Varget and H4895 quite a bit faster. Even a grain or a grain and a half lower still produced more velocity with the same bullet, to the point that I won't load like that again for fear of damaging the rifle.
If a faster powder (with less of it) results in higher velocity, that can mean only one thing--the pressure is unsafely high if you were at the max.
So the way I look at it, your options are push harder with a fast powder (more pressure) or try a slower powder.
Feel free to test my theory if you like. I am not a good enough shooter to be sure of the difference without going through a lot of rounds, and my .308 has a 24 inch barrel anyway.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H4895 is pretty fast in my experience. IMR 4895 is slower and may produce more velocity, even in your short barrel.
Did you consider trying the staples of Varget and RL15? </div></div>
i haven't tried anything else yet. i was thinking that a faster powder and lighter bullet would be the best choice for a shorter barrel. i may have to reevaluate my thinking if i can't get this combo to work.
i dicked around with it again yesterday and it looks like 44.4 grains of h4895, once fired lapua brass, 210m primer and a 155 scenar seated to 2.810" (.007" jump) works pretty good at 100 yards. i didn't have my chrony with me as i don't trust it anyways. i will load up a batch of this load and mess with it again between 200 and 1000 yards this weekend. i'll only bring this rifle so i have time to really evaluate it. </div></div>
I don't think a faster powder will help you in a rifle. You need a powder that fills the case as much as possible to get max velocity.
It's not like loading for a pistol where burn rate can have substantial differences in whether or not the powder is completely burned by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. You have what, 18" of barrel? That's an awful long time when it comes to combustion. I'd imagine all of the powder is burned within that time, but the gasses are still heating and expanding.
I'm not a chemist or a physicist and I don't claim to have any knowledge of those subjects that'd be relevant here. In fact, I have never taken a physics class for credit.
But, my experience with H4985 vs. IMR 4895 with my M1 Garand suggests that there is a pretty serious difference in burn rate between the two, with IMR being more like Varget and H4895 quite a bit faster. Even a grain or a grain and a half lower still produced more velocity with the same bullet, to the point that I won't load like that again for fear of damaging the rifle.
If a faster powder (with less of it) results in higher velocity, that can mean only one thing--the pressure is unsafely high if you were at the max.
So the way I look at it, your options are push harder with a fast powder (more pressure) or try a slower powder.
Feel free to test my theory if you like. I am not a good enough shooter to be sure of the difference without going through a lot of rounds, and my .308 has a 24 inch barrel anyway.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
anything over 44 grains of h4895 fills the case. at 45 grains i can feel the powder crunching as i seat the bullet.
a friend is giving me 100 loaded rounds with virgin lapua brass, 45.0 grains of varget and 175 smks because he doesn't have a 308 anymore. i will give a few a try to check for pressure and see how they shoot. if they shoot good, i may just switch to that load. that sounds like a very common load.
anything over 44 grains of h4895 fills the case. at 45 grains i can feel the powder crunching as i seat the bullet.
a friend is giving me 100 loaded rounds with virgin lapua brass, 45.0 grains of varget and 175 smks because he doesn't have a 308 anymore. i will give a few a try to check for pressure and see how they shoot. if they shoot good, i may just switch to that load. that sounds like a very common load.
Re: compact 308 home shop build
well the 44.4 grains of h4895 and 155 scenar load seems to work just fine. at 300 yards today i shot out the spindle of the last shot's spotter. i had about a 3" 5 round group at 500 yards and about 4" 5 round group at 600 yards. at 800, 900 and 1000 yards the groups started opening up a bit but i still kept it all on a target similar to torso of a b27. it took 36.25 minutes from 100 to 1000 yards at 250 feet elevation and 55* temp. it's definatly not f/tr material but it should do just fine inside of 600 yards, what it was built for. i plan on taking it out between 200 and 1k again tomorrow.
edit: if i entered the numbers correctly into jbm, it looks like this load was about 2765 fps today.
well the 44.4 grains of h4895 and 155 scenar load seems to work just fine. at 300 yards today i shot out the spindle of the last shot's spotter. i had about a 3" 5 round group at 500 yards and about 4" 5 round group at 600 yards. at 800, 900 and 1000 yards the groups started opening up a bit but i still kept it all on a target similar to torso of a b27. it took 36.25 minutes from 100 to 1000 yards at 250 feet elevation and 55* temp. it's definatly not f/tr material but it should do just fine inside of 600 yards, what it was built for. i plan on taking it out between 200 and 1k again tomorrow.
edit: if i entered the numbers correctly into jbm, it looks like this load was about 2765 fps today.
