Competition dies

[Kevin 53]

I'm new at reloading and I'm reloading for a 6.5 creedmoor using standard full length dies. I wanted to know are the competition dies that much better? Will they help me make a better load? I don't mind spending the money just don't want to waste money. Help please


Thanks kevin

 

[Mike]

Re: Competition dies

Usually the competition dies have much tighter tolerances and therefore more consistent. I don't think they're a "waste" of money if you plan on either being serious about reloading or being serious about accuracy.

 

[cav.scout]

Re: Competition dies

Even with comp dies inconsistent ram pressure can throw things off. That being said they are worth the money at least to me for building top quality ammo. Consistency is the key!

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Competition dies

+1 on tighter tolerances. Plus many of the upper-level dies have different designs to help avoid inconsistencies. For instance, the seating dies may have a sliding sleeve(s) that make sure the bullet and case are both held in correct alignment before and during the actual seating process.

Compare that to an entry-level die where you sit the bullet in place (hopefully straight) and hope it doesn't lean over once it's out of sight. And the case can be wiggled with your fingers as it goes up into the die. There's nothing touching the case except the shellholder and nothing touching the bullet except the seating cup.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Competition dies

On my limited eperience,the right task is buying anything AFTER patiently reading and understanding a book titled RELOADING FOR COMPETITION,written by mr.Zediker _(I can say that because I have followed the entirely reverse path... _)You can buy now other cheaper brands, and later you will find yourself asking for something better,and buying something like forster b.r.comp. or redding comp. anyway , even only for simple curiosity, without regretting about their price_ _Good reading first,and good luck_

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Competition dies

All true except in the case of the 6.5 Creedmore, factory Hornady dies are tailor made for there brass, the micrometer seating die does make life easy when seating up the die, but not required.

 

[Kevin 53]

Re: Competition dies

Since im loading 6.5 creedmoor should I go with the hornady or rcbs comp. dies? I'm grouping 1/2" at 200yds with 4 shots and the 5th making it larger group. I want to be consistence. Hornady or rcbs comp. dies ?


Thanks kevin

 

[Mike]

Re: Competition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kevin53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since im loading 6.5 creedmoor should I go with the hornady or rcbs comp. dies? I'm grouping 1/2" at 200yds with 4 shots and the 5th making it larger group. I want to be consistence. Hornady or rcbs comp. dies ?
Thanks kevin</div></div>

I'm currently using a borrowed set of the Hornady competition dies while I vacillate on the same decision. I will say this. I just went out and shot with a hand load multiple .25-.35" groups and put a group at 350 at about 1.5 inches with three shots hitting the same spot (with witnesses). The ammo had single digit ES. The point is not my shooting but the factory Hornady competition dies gave me some fantastically consistent ammo.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Competition dies

And then there is the question "Can I shoot as good as my dies can load?"

For me, I find that accuracy comes far more from my skill (or lack thereof) than the best possible ammo I can make.

I can go to the range with some crap I have just tossed together and shoot great. At the other end of the spectrum, I can load some ammo that is within one or two granules for load consistency, bullets are matched to within the a gnat's eyelash, and when runout is checked the needle on the dial indicator barely moves, and yet group sizes are twice that of the "crap ammo".

Not to dismiss the importance of good, uniform, ammunition, but if I can't shoot well, no Competition die is going to make me better.

Just a Saturday morning perspective on this.

 

[Mike]

Re: Competition dies

You can't get better shooting crappy ammo

 

[Kevin 53]

Re: Competition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can't get better shooting crappy ammo </div></div>

I agree with you mike. I'm wanting to load the best so I know it's not the dies or other things but me learning to shoot better. Would you go with the hornady or rcbs comp. dies?

Thanks Kevin

 

[Mike]

Re: Competition dies

Right now I'm seriously leaning towards Hornady

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Competition dies

<span style="font-style: italic">"I find that accuracy comes far more from my skill (or lack thereof) than the best possible ammo I can make."</span>

Roger that, and skill can't be bought at any price or brand of tools.

So called 'comp' dies by Forster and Redding are "better" on average than others because of their designs, not the tolerances. How much 'better' depends on the rifle, load and shooter but it won't be vast. Other brands claiming to make 'comp grade' dies are using advertizing hype to support their higher costs, not facts. (Actually, serious accuracy competition dies don't have threaded bodies! Or, on the other hand, if we used an old set of Herter's dies in a competition of some sort that would equally qualify them to be hyped as 'competition dies' as well as any others!)

Breathless claims of "tighter tolerances" for costly dies are meaningless. All SAMMI die (and chamber) specifications are a range, not a specific point and any dimensions inside the tolerance are as fully in tolerance as any other. Meaning, on average, there is as much difference between any random dies of the same maker as there is between makers. And where would the maker need to target his "tighter tolerance" dies anyway - at the larger or smaller dimensional limits? Or might that not be best compared to the actual chamber the ammo will be fired in?

 

[Kevin 53]

Re: Competition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"I find that accuracy comes far more from my skill (or lack thereof) than the best possible ammo I can make."</span>

Roger that, and skill can't be bought at any price or brand of tools.

So called 'comp' dies by Forster and Redding are "better" on average than others because of their designs, not the tolerances. How much 'better' depends on the rifle, load and shooter but it won't be vast. Other brands claiming to make 'comp grade' dies are using advertizing hype to support their higher costs, not facts. (Actually, serious accuracy competition dies don't have threaded bodies! Or, on the other hand, if we used an old set of Herter's dies in a competition of some sort that would equally qualify them to be hyped as 'competition dies' as well as any others!)

Breathless claims of "tighter tolerances" for costly dies are meaningless. All SAMMI die (and chamber) specifications are a range, not a specific point and any dimensions inside the tolerance are as fully in tolerance as any other. Meaning, on average, there is as much difference between any random dies of the same maker as there is between makers. And where would the maker need to target his "tighter tolerance" dies anyway - at the larger or smaller dimensional limits? Or might that not be best compared to the actual chamber the ammo will be fired in?

</div></div>

Well put I understand what you are saying. Thanks Fuzzball

Thanks Kevin