I am loading Varget in 308. The hotter loads per Nosler and others begin to fill more than 100%. I have my bullets loaded to max mag. length which is still well short of the lands so I've not smushed powder yet. My delema is that I've need for more powder but the die's instructions say not to compress loads or serious damage will occur to the die. My question is how much squeeze will the die tolerate?
Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
- Thread starter kenmack
- Start date
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
My 223 load with Varget is 25gr with a 80gr AMAX and it crunches like a Motherf####r. My Redding comp seat die is fine ,been doing it this way for years.
My 223 load with Varget is 25gr with a 80gr AMAX and it crunches like a Motherf####r. My Redding comp seat die is fine ,been doing it this way for years.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
If you keep a little lube on the seating stem, it will hold up.
I've locked one of mine up, a .223 die, because I didn't chamfer the brass, might have had too much neck tension also, I didn't check it.
They will not warranty it!
If you keep a little lube on the seating stem, it will hold up.
I've locked one of mine up, a .223 die, because I didn't chamfer the brass, might have had too much neck tension also, I didn't check it.
They will not warranty it!
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
What!?!?! If Varget can overpower a Redding die, I'm going to start throwing mine away.
Some of those max loads need drop tubes, taps on the cases, and fireformed shoulders to fit it all. Especially Hodgdon info, which is quite generous compared to all other loading manuals. Don't be dismayed if you can't reach Hodgdon book max with FL sized cases.
Extruded powders are fine to crunch, lots of airspace and it shouldn''t damage your die (especially the Redding), ball powders don't compress as much and can be quite formidable. But that's too much info to put in die instructions apparently. Let common sense prevail.
What!?!?! If Varget can overpower a Redding die, I'm going to start throwing mine away.
Some of those max loads need drop tubes, taps on the cases, and fireformed shoulders to fit it all. Especially Hodgdon info, which is quite generous compared to all other loading manuals. Don't be dismayed if you can't reach Hodgdon book max with FL sized cases.
Extruded powders are fine to crunch, lots of airspace and it shouldn''t damage your die (especially the Redding), ball powders don't compress as much and can be quite formidable. But that's too much info to put in die instructions apparently. Let common sense prevail.
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
If you try Winchester cases, the capacity is a little more. Even at max velocity w/Varget, you should not get a lot of "crunch" if you use WW brass.
If you try Winchester cases, the capacity is a little more. Even at max velocity w/Varget, you should not get a lot of "crunch" if you use WW brass.
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
Redding dies are known to crack with excessive use seating compressed loads. You can see where the seater will put an odd shelf around the ogive of the bullet that can affect external ballistics as drag will change.
You can send them to Redding with a request letter to re-shape the seater stem to give you a slightly better angle, but you still run the risk of cracking. Using a powder drop tube can help settle some of the powder and reduce some of the crunch.
Forster dies seem to be the preferred die if you routinely seat over compressed charges.
= = = = =
http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips
<span style="font-weight: bold">"SEATING DEPTH VARIATION</span>
There are many factors that can cause bullet seating depth to vary when using our Competition Seating Die. First, make sure you're comparing bullet seating depths correctly. You cannot check bullet seating uniformity by measuring cartridge overall length off the bullet point. You must use a bullet comparator, like our Instant Indicator, to compare bullet seating depths. A comparator contacts the bullet at the bore diameter contact point. This is important, as bullets can vary slightly in overall length.
We have designed the seat stem in our Competition Seating Die to contact the bullet ogive as far down as possible. Our Competition Seating Die features a bullet guide that is only .0005-.001" larger than bullet diameter. This tight fit between the bullet guide and bullet ensures that the bullet is seated straight in the case neck. It also limits how far down the ogive the seat stem can contact the bullet. If the ogive of your bullets aren't uniform, you may notice a slight difference in seating depth. Generally, this isn't a problem as modern bullets are very uniform. In rare instances, when using inexpensive bulk bullets, you may find that the bullets were made on several different machines and then blended.
If your loading press is worn, the ram may not stop in exactly the same spot each time you raise it. Obviously, this will cause variations in bullet seating depth. Although our instructions warn against it, raise the shellholder and adjust the outer, threaded die body to make light contact with the shellholder. (Make sure you keep the contact light, so you don't damage the die.) This creates a "dead length" seating chamber that is unaffected by where the shellholder stops. The only disadvantage to using the die adjusted this way, is that it may be awkward to read the micrometer if it ends up on the back side of the die.
Inadequate or excessive neck tension can also cause bullet seating depth variations. If you're using a bushing style sizing die, make sure you've selected the correct diameter bushing to size the case necks. Our current recommendation, is to select a bushing tha t is .001" smaller than the neck diameter of your loaded cartridges. (See the bushingselection newsletter in the "Tech Line" section of our website for more information.) As cases are fired over and over, their necks become progressively harder. This can cause the necks to "spring-back" excessively when they are sized, which reduces the neck tension on the bullet. Either anneal the case necks after several firings, or discard the cases and start with new, soft ones.
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Heavily compressed loads can create problems when seating bullets. Our Competition Seating Die is not a powder compression die. The excessive force required to seat a bullet on a compressed load can damage the die and may cause seating depth variations. Switching to a faster burning or ball powder may eliminate the need to excessively compress the powder char</span>ge.</span>
If you have any further questions, please feel free to call our technical support line at 607-753-3331."
Redding dies are known to crack with excessive use seating compressed loads. You can see where the seater will put an odd shelf around the ogive of the bullet that can affect external ballistics as drag will change.
You can send them to Redding with a request letter to re-shape the seater stem to give you a slightly better angle, but you still run the risk of cracking. Using a powder drop tube can help settle some of the powder and reduce some of the crunch.
Forster dies seem to be the preferred die if you routinely seat over compressed charges.
= = = = =
http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips
<span style="font-weight: bold">"SEATING DEPTH VARIATION</span>
There are many factors that can cause bullet seating depth to vary when using our Competition Seating Die. First, make sure you're comparing bullet seating depths correctly. You cannot check bullet seating uniformity by measuring cartridge overall length off the bullet point. You must use a bullet comparator, like our Instant Indicator, to compare bullet seating depths. A comparator contacts the bullet at the bore diameter contact point. This is important, as bullets can vary slightly in overall length.
We have designed the seat stem in our Competition Seating Die to contact the bullet ogive as far down as possible. Our Competition Seating Die features a bullet guide that is only .0005-.001" larger than bullet diameter. This tight fit between the bullet guide and bullet ensures that the bullet is seated straight in the case neck. It also limits how far down the ogive the seat stem can contact the bullet. If the ogive of your bullets aren't uniform, you may notice a slight difference in seating depth. Generally, this isn't a problem as modern bullets are very uniform. In rare instances, when using inexpensive bulk bullets, you may find that the bullets were made on several different machines and then blended.
If your loading press is worn, the ram may not stop in exactly the same spot each time you raise it. Obviously, this will cause variations in bullet seating depth. Although our instructions warn against it, raise the shellholder and adjust the outer, threaded die body to make light contact with the shellholder. (Make sure you keep the contact light, so you don't damage the die.) This creates a "dead length" seating chamber that is unaffected by where the shellholder stops. The only disadvantage to using the die adjusted this way, is that it may be awkward to read the micrometer if it ends up on the back side of the die.
Inadequate or excessive neck tension can also cause bullet seating depth variations. If you're using a bushing style sizing die, make sure you've selected the correct diameter bushing to size the case necks. Our current recommendation, is to select a bushing tha t is .001" smaller than the neck diameter of your loaded cartridges. (See the bushingselection newsletter in the "Tech Line" section of our website for more information.) As cases are fired over and over, their necks become progressively harder. This can cause the necks to "spring-back" excessively when they are sized, which reduces the neck tension on the bullet. Either anneal the case necks after several firings, or discard the cases and start with new, soft ones.
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Heavily compressed loads can create problems when seating bullets. Our Competition Seating Die is not a powder compression die. The excessive force required to seat a bullet on a compressed load can damage the die and may cause seating depth variations. Switching to a faster burning or ball powder may eliminate the need to excessively compress the powder char</span>ge.</span>
If you have any further questions, please feel free to call our technical support line at 607-753-3331."
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
Or you could just buy the vld seater stem and change it out, then you'd have a spare.
Not trying to argue sinister, but I don't think that ring you mentioned could effect accuracy that much. Given the fact that Berger's have the most fucked up meplat, tips, ever seen from bullet makers. And they shoot fine.
Or you could just buy the vld seater stem and change it out, then you'd have a spare.
Not trying to argue sinister, but I don't think that ring you mentioned could effect accuracy that much. Given the fact that Berger's have the most fucked up meplat, tips, ever seen from bullet makers. And they shoot fine.
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
You can use a bullet and lapping compound on the seating stem to reduce the sharp edge where the stem contacts the bullet. It doen't take much to eliminate the ring.
OFG
You can use a bullet and lapping compound on the seating stem to reduce the sharp edge where the stem contacts the bullet. It doen't take much to eliminate the ring.
OFG
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
The trick to getting the Redding seating stems to last is to use little pressure on the lever arm and feel the bullet slip into the neck and then down on the powder and finall to the seated position. This takes several seconds per seating, and is not a whang-bang-done process (like more std seaters). Use the nerves in your lever arm and do not let too much pressure be applied, and the seater stem will last a good long time.
The trick to getting the Redding seating stems to last is to use little pressure on the lever arm and feel the bullet slip into the neck and then down on the powder and finall to the seated position. This takes several seconds per seating, and is not a whang-bang-done process (like more std seaters). Use the nerves in your lever arm and do not let too much pressure be applied, and the seater stem will last a good long time.
Re: Compressed Loads and Redding Competition Seater
I have been loading my 308 with 49 and some odd grains of varget under a 150 nosler acubond. The load came from noslers data. It is a compressed load and I use a redding match die. With 200 rounds loaded so far, my die is good. I go slow and don't ram it in. For whatever it's worth the load I use is in fire formed Winchester brass and is not highly compressed.
I have been loading my 308 with 49 and some odd grains of varget under a 150 nosler acubond. The load came from noslers data. It is a compressed load and I use a redding match die. With 200 rounds loaded so far, my die is good. I go slow and don't ram it in. For whatever it's worth the load I use is in fire formed Winchester brass and is not highly compressed.
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