Suppressors conceal carry with reloads?
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Re: conceal carry with reloads?
The state your in and the situation itself will usually dictate how a shooting will be handled. Some places/ situations ammo will be questioned, others not at all. The outcome of the shooting whether the subject lives, dies, is mamed or crippled can bring ammo into question.
When you make the choice of ammo for your carry gun try to look beyond the "when it happens" situation. Present yourself with as many post-shooting scenarios that you can. Go through each little part of the entire shooting and make sure that if your asked a question that you are able to produce an answer that clearly defines your actions.
If asked to provide the ballistic information, that after testing thousands and thousands of rounds, through various materials, barriers, distances, ballistic gel, accuracy tests in multiple firearms..ect, would you be able to say that the ammo you used had the intended effect?
I know that if the ammo that came into question, I could not provide that info about my carry ammo. But Winchester could.
If you miss with a reload and hit a bystander or damage property YOU are the only one that will be held accountable. At least if its factory loaded ammo you may not be the only one in trouble.
Here is another point to argue why reloads are a bad idea. You see a lot of folks here picking parts and equipment for their rifles because thats what the competition champs are using. Well, I have yet to see or hear of a law enforcement agency using hand loaded ammunition for duty use.
The state your in and the situation itself will usually dictate how a shooting will be handled. Some places/ situations ammo will be questioned, others not at all. The outcome of the shooting whether the subject lives, dies, is mamed or crippled can bring ammo into question.
When you make the choice of ammo for your carry gun try to look beyond the "when it happens" situation. Present yourself with as many post-shooting scenarios that you can. Go through each little part of the entire shooting and make sure that if your asked a question that you are able to produce an answer that clearly defines your actions.
If asked to provide the ballistic information, that after testing thousands and thousands of rounds, through various materials, barriers, distances, ballistic gel, accuracy tests in multiple firearms..ect, would you be able to say that the ammo you used had the intended effect?
I know that if the ammo that came into question, I could not provide that info about my carry ammo. But Winchester could.
If you miss with a reload and hit a bystander or damage property YOU are the only one that will be held accountable. At least if its factory loaded ammo you may not be the only one in trouble.
Here is another point to argue why reloads are a bad idea. You see a lot of folks here picking parts and equipment for their rifles because thats what the competition champs are using. Well, I have yet to see or hear of a law enforcement agency using hand loaded ammunition for duty use.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
Downzero. Interesting data. I stand corrected. Now, the other issues I see are inconsistency ammunition as well how extensive of testing factory defensive loads go through vs. What the average home reloader can do.
Downzero. Interesting data. I stand corrected. Now, the other issues I see are inconsistency ammunition as well how extensive of testing factory defensive loads go through vs. What the average home reloader can do.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nw1911guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Downzero. Interesting data. I stand corrected. Now, the other issues I see are inconsistency ammunition as well how extensive of testing factory defensive loads go through vs. What the average home reloader can do. </div></div>
There are definitely more variables that way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nw1911guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Downzero. Interesting data. I stand corrected. Now, the other issues I see are inconsistency ammunition as well how extensive of testing factory defensive loads go through vs. What the average home reloader can do. </div></div>
There are definitely more variables that way.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
There are a few reasons I prefer factory law enforcement ammo for SD. The first and foremost is there has been a lot of money both by the manufacturer and by different government organizations as to the ballistics of the ammo. Something that from a $ and engineering point of view as a reloader, I just cannot replicate with my reloads. Sure, I could try to figure out the bullet, primer, maybe the powder if I can get it (if its not some special blend that is only available to certain companies), then get new brass. By the time I go through all that, a box of 50 9mm federal hst is only $25.
When it comes to the quality aspect of it, there is a AQL process that ammo manufacturer adhere to, a statistical analysis based on a sampling plan. This holds true for the window for powder, primers, etc. In a SD situation it sure would suck to find out your reload was a squib round. Do you weigh each cartridge to make sure there is powder in there and calibrate all your equipment for each run that you perform ?
The other issue I noticed is that at least with what I reload with, WSF that I have lots of muzzle flash, substantially more than my federal hst or corbon. They must be using some other powder I can't get or more importantly for me reloading, I do not have at the current time.
There are a few reasons I prefer factory law enforcement ammo for SD. The first and foremost is there has been a lot of money both by the manufacturer and by different government organizations as to the ballistics of the ammo. Something that from a $ and engineering point of view as a reloader, I just cannot replicate with my reloads. Sure, I could try to figure out the bullet, primer, maybe the powder if I can get it (if its not some special blend that is only available to certain companies), then get new brass. By the time I go through all that, a box of 50 9mm federal hst is only $25.
When it comes to the quality aspect of it, there is a AQL process that ammo manufacturer adhere to, a statistical analysis based on a sampling plan. This holds true for the window for powder, primers, etc. In a SD situation it sure would suck to find out your reload was a squib round. Do you weigh each cartridge to make sure there is powder in there and calibrate all your equipment for each run that you perform ?
The other issue I noticed is that at least with what I reload with, WSF that I have lots of muzzle flash, substantially more than my federal hst or corbon. They must be using some other powder I can't get or more importantly for me reloading, I do not have at the current time.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
Its like this according to the local Des moines cops any way. First thing that they look at is your attitude at the scene of the shooting. After that it goes to your gun, was it modified. Hair trigger, why did you need that, laser sight, why did you need that, Hand loaded ammo, why did you need that, and on and on. They basically go down a list of events and other factors like the gun you had to see if you had a good explanation for your actions.
The important thing to remember is how you look to a juror, and yes a good lawyer is a great thing to have. They will be filled with pro and anti gunners to any percentage. Civil court is diff rent, there you only need a majority, so innocent in criminal guilty in civil is a likely outcome. If you load ammo because you have had bad experience with factory defense loads, like Hornady cooking off, or forgetting a primer as a recent bullet I had from them, then thats a viable reason for your action.
I carry a stock S&W6906 I might get new night sites, mine don't glow no more. I load it with golddot and thats that. In the end its all in how you look to the cop, then the prosecutor, then the jurors if it comes to that.
Its like this according to the local Des moines cops any way. First thing that they look at is your attitude at the scene of the shooting. After that it goes to your gun, was it modified. Hair trigger, why did you need that, laser sight, why did you need that, Hand loaded ammo, why did you need that, and on and on. They basically go down a list of events and other factors like the gun you had to see if you had a good explanation for your actions.
The important thing to remember is how you look to a juror, and yes a good lawyer is a great thing to have. They will be filled with pro and anti gunners to any percentage. Civil court is diff rent, there you only need a majority, so innocent in criminal guilty in civil is a likely outcome. If you load ammo because you have had bad experience with factory defense loads, like Hornady cooking off, or forgetting a primer as a recent bullet I had from them, then thats a viable reason for your action.
I carry a stock S&W6906 I might get new night sites, mine don't glow no more. I load it with golddot and thats that. In the end its all in how you look to the cop, then the prosecutor, then the jurors if it comes to that.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heimdall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its like this according to the local Des moines cops any way. First thing that they look at is your attitude at the scene of the shooting. After that it goes to your gun, was it modified. Hair trigger, why did you need that, laser sight, why did you need that, Hand loaded ammo, why did you need that, and on and on. They basically go down a list of events and other factors like the gun you had to see if you had a good explanation for your actions.
The important thing to remember is how you look to a juror, and yes a good lawyer is a great thing to have. They will be filled with pro and anti gunners to any percentage. Civil court is diff rent, there you only need a majority, so innocent in criminal guilty in civil is a likely outcome. If you load ammo because you have had bad experience with factory defense loads, like Hornady cooking off, or forgetting a primer as a recent bullet I had from them, then thats a viable reason for your action.
I carry a stock S&W6906 I might get new night sites, mine don't glow no more. I load it with golddot and thats that. In the end its all in how you look to the cop, then the prosecutor, then the jurors if it comes to that. </div></div>
Interesting points. I know here in the county I live in, they don't seem too interested in prosecuting anything that looks remotely like self defense. Even some stuff I thought sounded pretty dicey was ruled justifiable. So, some of this obviously comes down to where you are. Another thing that can be an issue is, say you shoot the deadbeat nephew of a local connected businessman that makes significant contributions to some of the local politicians, and despite your actions being justifiable, you get hauled into court anyways. Lots of variables you can't account for.
Hair trigger - What is the definition? The term is thrown around so much and is so ambiguous as to be meaningless.
Laser Sight - I was hoping to scare him off and not have to shoot him.
Hand loaded ammo - I guess whatever you think is appropriate.
Basically, have a defense in place for anything you can think of and be able to convey the reason in a comprehensible manner to the jury
And.....
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Sniper's Hide.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heimdall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its like this according to the local Des moines cops any way. First thing that they look at is your attitude at the scene of the shooting. After that it goes to your gun, was it modified. Hair trigger, why did you need that, laser sight, why did you need that, Hand loaded ammo, why did you need that, and on and on. They basically go down a list of events and other factors like the gun you had to see if you had a good explanation for your actions.
The important thing to remember is how you look to a juror, and yes a good lawyer is a great thing to have. They will be filled with pro and anti gunners to any percentage. Civil court is diff rent, there you only need a majority, so innocent in criminal guilty in civil is a likely outcome. If you load ammo because you have had bad experience with factory defense loads, like Hornady cooking off, or forgetting a primer as a recent bullet I had from them, then thats a viable reason for your action.
I carry a stock S&W6906 I might get new night sites, mine don't glow no more. I load it with golddot and thats that. In the end its all in how you look to the cop, then the prosecutor, then the jurors if it comes to that. </div></div>
Interesting points. I know here in the county I live in, they don't seem too interested in prosecuting anything that looks remotely like self defense. Even some stuff I thought sounded pretty dicey was ruled justifiable. So, some of this obviously comes down to where you are. Another thing that can be an issue is, say you shoot the deadbeat nephew of a local connected businessman that makes significant contributions to some of the local politicians, and despite your actions being justifiable, you get hauled into court anyways. Lots of variables you can't account for.
Hair trigger - What is the definition? The term is thrown around so much and is so ambiguous as to be meaningless.
Laser Sight - I was hoping to scare him off and not have to shoot him.
Hand loaded ammo - I guess whatever you think is appropriate.
Basically, have a defense in place for anything you can think of and be able to convey the reason in a comprehensible manner to the jury
And.....
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Sniper's Hide.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
whether using reloads or any other argument is the condition that kicks the case over to a civil suit is speculative at best. But one real thing to consider is the priming problem. If you do, consider factory unfired primed brass. If you do have a failure in a reload its usually in the primer seating/handling area, or as in the case of rifle having expanded primer pockets.
whether using reloads or any other argument is the condition that kicks the case over to a civil suit is speculative at best. But one real thing to consider is the priming problem. If you do, consider factory unfired primed brass. If you do have a failure in a reload its usually in the primer seating/handling area, or as in the case of rifle having expanded primer pockets.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
Boy, lots of good info here.
I carry a complete stock pistol, no trigger work, no light, the factory three dot night sites that came on it. Only carry mags made by sig (its a sig220 I carry) that have more than 500 rounds through the magazines.
I live in a pretty rural area. So thats one good thing. The only argument/benefits I could see that you could make in a court (im not a lawyer) is that your built your carry ammo to be accurate in your gun. So god forbid you did draw your weapon, the chances of a miss are down by that much.
But as I read more and more, it appears that that is neglibale, because most sd shootings occur in feet/inches not in yards.
The problem I see, is like what I ran into, a batch of 20 or so rounds that werent crimped and wouldnt feed. Albeit, somehow I guess winchester could fuck up and the samething could happen there too. Though, in my case of the lack of crimp, I could deffinetly SEE that the flare was still there.
To the poster that asked about me weighing them. I am VERY careful on the weighing. I test the first 10 to make sure they are all within .1gr of each other (this is just practice ammo), then every 10th or so after that I measure, and somewehre I test a random one too. Empty cases stay on one side of my press, charged cases on the other, NO MIXING. I dont use a tray to hold them when I am charging. Its one case at a time. Although, if I were to carry reloads, each charge would be weighed on my scale, to the desired weight, no exceptions. The above is just what I do for practice ammo.
Boy, lots of good info here.
I carry a complete stock pistol, no trigger work, no light, the factory three dot night sites that came on it. Only carry mags made by sig (its a sig220 I carry) that have more than 500 rounds through the magazines.
I live in a pretty rural area. So thats one good thing. The only argument/benefits I could see that you could make in a court (im not a lawyer) is that your built your carry ammo to be accurate in your gun. So god forbid you did draw your weapon, the chances of a miss are down by that much.
But as I read more and more, it appears that that is neglibale, because most sd shootings occur in feet/inches not in yards.
The problem I see, is like what I ran into, a batch of 20 or so rounds that werent crimped and wouldnt feed. Albeit, somehow I guess winchester could fuck up and the samething could happen there too. Though, in my case of the lack of crimp, I could deffinetly SEE that the flare was still there.
To the poster that asked about me weighing them. I am VERY careful on the weighing. I test the first 10 to make sure they are all within .1gr of each other (this is just practice ammo), then every 10th or so after that I measure, and somewehre I test a random one too. Empty cases stay on one side of my press, charged cases on the other, NO MIXING. I dont use a tray to hold them when I am charging. Its one case at a time. Although, if I were to carry reloads, each charge would be weighed on my scale, to the desired weight, no exceptions. The above is just what I do for practice ammo.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should carefully chamber check the ammo you carry, for sure, factory or not. If it doesn't drop into your chamber by hand, your gun will never feed it into the chamber with 100% reliability. </div></div>
Excellent point DZ.
Now, after all this discussion, color me lazy but I'll just buy factory ammo. Less work, the mfr is insured, and they have probably spent more on testing than the gross national product of a 3rd world nation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should carefully chamber check the ammo you carry, for sure, factory or not. If it doesn't drop into your chamber by hand, your gun will never feed it into the chamber with 100% reliability. </div></div>
Excellent point DZ.
Now, after all this discussion, color me lazy but I'll just buy factory ammo. Less work, the mfr is insured, and they have probably spent more on testing than the gross national product of a 3rd world nation.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
That is great that you do perform some QC, however, only testing and weighing 10 is such a small statistical sample unfortunately it really not much to hang your coat on. Min sample process would be test the first 100 in the same manner, then move to a reduced sampling plan, and this is per batch.
Of course, it only takes one f up to ruin your day
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy, lots of good info here.
I carry a complete stock pistol, no trigger work, no light, the factory three dot night sites that came on it. Only carry mags made by sig (its a sig220 I carry) that have more than 500 rounds through the magazines.
I live in a pretty rural area. So thats one good thing. The only argument/benefits I could see that you could make in a court (im not a lawyer) is that your built your carry ammo to be accurate in your gun. So god forbid you did draw your weapon, the chances of a miss are down by that much.
But as I read more and more, it appears that that is neglibale, because most sd shootings occur in feet/inches not in yards.
The problem I see, is like what I ran into, a batch of 20 or so rounds that werent crimped and wouldnt feed. Albeit, somehow I guess winchester could fuck up and the samething could happen there too. Though, in my case of the lack of crimp, I could deffinetly SEE that the flare was still there.
To the poster that asked about me weighing them. I am VERY careful on the weighing. I test the first 10 to make sure they are all within .1gr of each other (this is just practice ammo), then every 10th or so after that I measure, and somewehre I test a random one too. Empty cases stay on one side of my press, charged cases on the other, NO MIXING. I dont use a tray to hold them when I am charging. Its one case at a time. Although, if I were to carry reloads, each charge would be weighed on my scale, to the desired weight, no exceptions. The above is just what I do for practice ammo.</div></div>
That is great that you do perform some QC, however, only testing and weighing 10 is such a small statistical sample unfortunately it really not much to hang your coat on. Min sample process would be test the first 100 in the same manner, then move to a reduced sampling plan, and this is per batch.
Of course, it only takes one f up to ruin your day
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy, lots of good info here.
I carry a complete stock pistol, no trigger work, no light, the factory three dot night sites that came on it. Only carry mags made by sig (its a sig220 I carry) that have more than 500 rounds through the magazines.
I live in a pretty rural area. So thats one good thing. The only argument/benefits I could see that you could make in a court (im not a lawyer) is that your built your carry ammo to be accurate in your gun. So god forbid you did draw your weapon, the chances of a miss are down by that much.
But as I read more and more, it appears that that is neglibale, because most sd shootings occur in feet/inches not in yards.
The problem I see, is like what I ran into, a batch of 20 or so rounds that werent crimped and wouldnt feed. Albeit, somehow I guess winchester could fuck up and the samething could happen there too. Though, in my case of the lack of crimp, I could deffinetly SEE that the flare was still there.
To the poster that asked about me weighing them. I am VERY careful on the weighing. I test the first 10 to make sure they are all within .1gr of each other (this is just practice ammo), then every 10th or so after that I measure, and somewehre I test a random one too. Empty cases stay on one side of my press, charged cases on the other, NO MIXING. I dont use a tray to hold them when I am charging. Its one case at a time. Although, if I were to carry reloads, each charge would be weighed on my scale, to the desired weight, no exceptions. The above is just what I do for practice ammo.</div></div>
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
Pa, my thrower is very consstent with clays (which is what I use) if I were to load my carry each would be weighed to an EXACT weight. Plus other checks.
The drop check into the barrel is a good idea, will start doing that.
Pa, my thrower is very consstent with clays (which is what I use) if I were to load my carry each would be weighed to an EXACT weight. Plus other checks.
The drop check into the barrel is a good idea, will start doing that.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
I use reloads in my 9mm carry pistol. They come from a very reliable source and I have never had a failure yet. You could have a failure at any time with any ammo. I went to a gun show and bought a load of ammo. I don't know anything but that the price was right. You can find the right attorney to pick apart anything tht you want. The gun, bullets, shoes you were wearing, time of day, your sexual orientation, or what ever else you want to throw into the equation.
I use reloads in my 9mm carry pistol. They come from a very reliable source and I have never had a failure yet. You could have a failure at any time with any ammo. I went to a gun show and bought a load of ammo. I don't know anything but that the price was right. You can find the right attorney to pick apart anything tht you want. The gun, bullets, shoes you were wearing, time of day, your sexual orientation, or what ever else you want to throw into the equation.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
I carry factory defensive ammo. At first I bought the liability of reloaded ammo myth, then I just realized that I've shot a few squibs when I roll my own.
Bad time on a steel stage is one thing, asking the guy wanting to kill me on cold blood to hold up while I clear my bore is another.
I carry factory defensive ammo. At first I bought the liability of reloaded ammo myth, then I just realized that I've shot a few squibs when I roll my own.
Bad time on a steel stage is one thing, asking the guy wanting to kill me on cold blood to hold up while I clear my bore is another.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
I would advise you against carrying reloaded ammo in your concealed carry firearm.
If you happen to use your firearm in a defensive situation, you may have an aggressive prosecuting attorney come after you.
Carry what LE officers use. That way if you need to defend your actions in court, you can claim that you only use what police officer carry to stop the progression of unlawful force.
You don't want to give the other side any ammunition that will allow them to question your character in court.
I understand the argument of tailor making ammunition that is more accurate and more reliable than factor ammo. The problem is that most people that sit in a jury don't understand the usefulness of reloading. Therefore, a prosecuting attorney may find it easier to convince them that you reloaded ammo was made for the sole purpose of killing someone. Which may possibly call into question your character and potentially your justification of use of deadly force.
You can of course find a good attorney and bring in expert witnesses to explain reloading and that your loads are no more deadly than factory reloads. However, you will pay out the nose for expert testimony and you still will need to get a jury to buy it.
Lastly, the only squib loads that I have ever witnessed have come from someone's suspect reloads.
For me, it's just not worth the potential risks. Use the reloads at the range and find a factory defensive load used by LE (i.e. federal hydra-shock, speer lawman, etc.) that functions your pistol reliably and stick with that for concealed carry.
I would advise you against carrying reloaded ammo in your concealed carry firearm.
If you happen to use your firearm in a defensive situation, you may have an aggressive prosecuting attorney come after you.
Carry what LE officers use. That way if you need to defend your actions in court, you can claim that you only use what police officer carry to stop the progression of unlawful force.
You don't want to give the other side any ammunition that will allow them to question your character in court.
I understand the argument of tailor making ammunition that is more accurate and more reliable than factor ammo. The problem is that most people that sit in a jury don't understand the usefulness of reloading. Therefore, a prosecuting attorney may find it easier to convince them that you reloaded ammo was made for the sole purpose of killing someone. Which may possibly call into question your character and potentially your justification of use of deadly force.
You can of course find a good attorney and bring in expert witnesses to explain reloading and that your loads are no more deadly than factory reloads. However, you will pay out the nose for expert testimony and you still will need to get a jury to buy it.
Lastly, the only squib loads that I have ever witnessed have come from someone's suspect reloads.
For me, it's just not worth the potential risks. Use the reloads at the range and find a factory defensive load used by LE (i.e. federal hydra-shock, speer lawman, etc.) that functions your pistol reliably and stick with that for concealed carry.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
from an LE point of view, in texas anyway, the magic words, to be repeated over and over are I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. they have told us that for years in training classes, turn out rooms, etc. whether its a civilian to the DA or a cop to IA its always I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. everyone has the right to defend their life. whether its from a screwdriver, a hand in a pocket MAYBE pulling out god knows what, a car antenna in the guys hand advancing on you, I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. this not mean to be legal advice, just observations and common sense.
from an LE point of view, in texas anyway, the magic words, to be repeated over and over are I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. they have told us that for years in training classes, turn out rooms, etc. whether its a civilian to the DA or a cop to IA its always I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. everyone has the right to defend their life. whether its from a screwdriver, a hand in a pocket MAYBE pulling out god knows what, a car antenna in the guys hand advancing on you, I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. this not mean to be legal advice, just observations and common sense.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from an LE point of view, in texas anyway, the magic words, to be repeated over and over are I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. they have told us that for years in training classes, turn out rooms, etc. whether its a civilian to the DA or a cop to IA its always I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. everyone has the right to defend their life. whether its from a screwdriver, a hand in a pocket MAYBE pulling out god knows what, a car antenna in the guys hand advancing on you, I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. this not mean to be legal advice, just observations and common sense. </div></div>
Agreed. If it's deemed justifiable the gun, ammo, mods ect will probably not be a consideration.
That being said I'm not going to give a young DA any ammo to shoot at me with. I carry a stock Glock 23 with night sights and TAP ammo. Nothing special but it will get the job done.
In Arizona the Department of Public Safety (state police) suggest to CCW holders to invoke your 5th amendment right until you have counsel at your side. They say in the class you will be placed in custody and taken in for questioning regardless of how your innocence looks to the responding LEO's. They also said a key phrase should be "I was in fear for my life and I continued to fire until there was no longer a threat".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from an LE point of view, in texas anyway, the magic words, to be repeated over and over are I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. they have told us that for years in training classes, turn out rooms, etc. whether its a civilian to the DA or a cop to IA its always I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. everyone has the right to defend their life. whether its from a screwdriver, a hand in a pocket MAYBE pulling out god knows what, a car antenna in the guys hand advancing on you, I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE. this not mean to be legal advice, just observations and common sense. </div></div>
Agreed. If it's deemed justifiable the gun, ammo, mods ect will probably not be a consideration.
That being said I'm not going to give a young DA any ammo to shoot at me with. I carry a stock Glock 23 with night sights and TAP ammo. Nothing special but it will get the job done.
In Arizona the Department of Public Safety (state police) suggest to CCW holders to invoke your 5th amendment right until you have counsel at your side. They say in the class you will be placed in custody and taken in for questioning regardless of how your innocence looks to the responding LEO's. They also said a key phrase should be "I was in fear for my life and I continued to fire until there was no longer a threat".
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!"
I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!"
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!" </div></div>
The cops may not know but I'm sure a good forensics lab would. Before they relase the weapon back to the owner I'm sure they do complete analysis of it and report their findings. None of my reloads mimic a factory load so it would be easy for them to tell. I still would only use factory ammo tough. Just for peace of mind at least.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!" </div></div>
The cops may not know but I'm sure a good forensics lab would. Before they relase the weapon back to the owner I'm sure they do complete analysis of it and report their findings. None of my reloads mimic a factory load so it would be easy for them to tell. I still would only use factory ammo tough. Just for peace of mind at least.
Re: conceal carry with reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!"</div></div>
WHAT?? don't you ever watch NCIS? Abby could figure it out b4 the next commercial!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting to hear how an investigation would determine that the ammunition was reloads unless you either A: told them, or B: loaded something well outside the ordinary.
If John Q Public loads XTPs into a Hornady case, I'm having an awfully hard time believing that any criminal investigation would ever go so far as to analyze the powder type and weight to determine if they were factory or not. Veteran reloaders, and a handful of individuals from the ammo companies, might be able to determine with some effort just what's loaded into a given magazine, but I'm having an incredibly hard time believing that the DA's office is going to have the time, money, or expertise to conduct that level of research in anything other than a highly politicized trial.
All of which assuming you don't go telling the officers on scene "Yeah, I load my own ammo because it kills 'em deader that way!"</div></div>
WHAT?? don't you ever watch NCIS? Abby could figure it out b4 the next commercial!
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