Gunsmithing Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

T

tunacan

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Minuteman
Feb 28, 2009
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Utah, SLC
#1
I have researched this topic and everyone has a different answer. Is it necessary or beneficial to recut the action threads when truing a rem 700?

If the action face is square and the barrel is square wont there be enough crush or play in the threads to get the two seated together 100%?

What would be the advantage to single point cutting the threads? What are the odds that I will notice a difference in accuracy?

Thanks
 
#3
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

The biggest thing is that you are then working from a known point. Most of the time there is not very much that has to come off to make everything square. I did have one a couple years back however where the lugs required .015 to be taken off to square them up for full contact. In that case I saw a huge increase in accuracy rifle originaly wouldn't consistently stay under 2" before and after everything was trued up it would hold in the .4-.6 range with factory Hornady ammo.
 
#4
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I do it but my set up is a bit different and there's more that goes into it than just opening the threads up. I add countersink to the receiver ring and alter the geometry on the lead thread and pin the lug while I'm at it.

Done properly it certainly doesn't hurt but the jury is out on whether it really makes a difference or not.

I think it ultimately boils down to how well the barrel tennon is fitted to the receiver to reap all the possible benefits. It's been said it's not possible to center two components onto each other using a threaded joint. I don't buy it.

Chad
 
#5
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do it but my set up is a bit different and there's more that goes into it than just opening the threads up. I add countersink to the receiver ring and alter the geometry on the lead thread and pin the lug while I'm at it.

Done properly it certainly doesn't hurt but the jury is out on whether it really makes a difference or not.

I think it ultimately boils down to how well the barrel tennon is fitted to the receiver to reap all the possible benefits. It's been said it's not possible to center two components onto each other using a threaded joint. I don't buy it.

Chad </div></div>

don't you do it vertically using a thread mill on a vmc? it was on another forum so i could be thinking of someone else. i really like the idea but i am still scratching my head on how to pick up the existing thread.
 
#7
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, that'd be me.

Picking the thread up is as complicated as a flashlight and a calculator.

Easy stuff. . .</div></div>

Its easy to pick them up on a lathe as well if you are wondering
 
#8
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeachGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, that'd be me.

Picking the thread up is as complicated as a flashlight and a calculator.

Easy stuff. . .</div></div>

Its easy to pick them up on a lathe as well if you are wondering </div></div>

picking up an existing thread on a manual lathe is easy enough. doing it on a cnc mill, i would think you would need to write a quick program for each receiver as i doubt any would have the threads start in the exact same place.
 
#9
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tunacan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the action face is square and the barrel is square wont there be enough crush or play in the threads to get the two seated together 100%?</div></div>

When you square the action face you are reducing/eliminating angular runout. Think of it as making the rear of the case sit in full contact with the bolt face, or, making the bolt and chamber parallel. This is also one reason for truing the bolt face.

By recutting the threads you are reducing radial runout. Picture this as bring the bolt and chamber onto the same centerline.

Is one more important than the other? I don't know, but if you are trying to minimize variables, cut the face and threads.


Hope this helps.

Trilogymac
 
#10
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I single point all cuts made to the receiver, even the threads. This done after the receiver center line is indicated in to no less than .0002" TIR. I've seen the OEM threads with taper and off set from the receiver center line.

After indicating, all cuts are made during the same set up. If tighter receiver/barrel threads are desired you'll need to single point the receiver threads. Granted, there is a little wiggle when screwing a barrel and receiver together and alignment will follow. If there is no wiggle, the receiver threads better be concentric and perpendicular to the receiver face if a square lock up is desired.
 
#11
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I know a lathe will do it, but thanks anyway for taking the time to point it out for me. I Did it that way for years, just like everyone else. Then I got better tools/machines.

The reason I prefer this way is more control over what is going on. If one wants to get in the mud with this (an engineering term, not a taunt) here's the deal.

The way a modern CNC encoder works the machine is verifying its position virtually every step of the way. 16 million little bits of location spread out over a 360* circle. In relative terms it means that the pitch is very linear, the roundness of the circle is very accurate, and the concentricity to whatever it was indicated from is very close.

Very close in practical terms means perfect. It's only going to get better by grinding the threads.

Work holding. I have a very rigid set up that isn't moving. I don't have to be concerned with four/eight little points of contact like a spider/cats head assembly has. I clamp this down and then move the whole table till I'm pointing straight at the Z axis.

Workholding is a fundemental principle in machining. It's 101 stuff. Anyone who's spent anytime in any kind of shop that produces good parts knows this. It starts with the floor that the machines are sitting on and extends all the way to the vise/chuck/fixture clamping the part. You can never have too rigid a set up. Your tools will last longer, your surface finishes will improve and the quality of your work will jump by leaps and bounds.

A multiflute carbide thread mill has very little chip load compared to the constant loading on a threading insert. This means very little tool deflection. Not saying a boring bar/internal threading tool isn't rigid, but it's not as rigid as a thread mill in a CNC milling center.

Last, I despise the initial thread being a razor blade. Irks me to no end. Unless I have a turning center with live tooling I can't alter the feature the way I can with the mill. Going from root to crest diameter over a .25 radius. What that translates to is a full thread form in a short distance. No more sliced fingers, no more potentially tearing the lead thread.


300_
Clocking position has nothing to do with how I start I pick up the existing thread. Your thinking about it too hard. I'm not going to tell you how to do it because I've seen enough of your posts to know that your a smart guy and creative enough to get outside the stupid box. Make the software do the work for you. . .

Last, I get everything I want done in one set up. Clean the face, clean the lugs, make the ID concentric with the bore CL, mill the threads, chamfer all the sharp edges and drill for a pinned lug. The set up is about ten minutes, the cycle time for everything is about 15 and that includes the thread milling portion.

Just a different tool to do the same job. I peel skin from cats going the other way, that's all I'm saying.

-.c

6.png
 
#12
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

hey chad, do you true the bolt in the vmc also? i can see that also being done vertically all in one setup with a custom ground tool to get to the rear/backside of the lugs.

and yes, i over think things. sometimes so much that nothing gets done
grin.gif
 
#13
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I'll do the face of the bolt in the mill and then toss it in the lathe to cut the back side. Just quicker that way. I thought about using a carbide slitting saw to get it all in one op but I'd be too worried about having an offset off a little bit and nailing the body with the tool. That'd make a mess for sure.

I'm with you on the overclocking the brain.

An entire day thrown at figuring out how to import a hand traced buttplate pattern, hand drawn rastorimage tribal flames, all converted to surface and line geometry, then projected to produce a machined 3D surface with 3D surface contoured engraving. All for a "stupid" rimfire bench gun I'm working on.

DSC_0106.jpg
 
#14
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Hey Chad,

I saw that pic on BR Central, nice set BTW. How are you indicating the receiver in so all cuts are concentric and or perpendicular to the receiver raceway / center line?

I also saw the mandrel you're using in the same set of photos on BRC. Is your mandrel being held by the receiver raceway or other means?

Just curious as to another’s method to the madness.
 
#16
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Just trying to understand something here, how do you adjust the raceway centerline to be perfetcly parrellel to the Z axis of the cutting tool?

I'm still trying to understand a, ID "universal" mandrel fit in the front ring of receiver raceways.
 
#19
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the same thing that skullblocked more than a few guys in BR and resulted in all sorts of hate and discontent.

It works, that's all I can say. Lots of happy customers with accurate rifles out there.

</div></div>

i couldn't remember what site i read that on but i do remember it. some people refuse to accept modern cnc over traditional manual methods when it comes to precision rifle building.

i think what roscoe is getting at, and something i was wondering the last time i saw this subject is, if you indicated on the x and y sides of the mandrel and z'd up and down, would the dial move? is the receiver raceway absolutely parallel with your spindle? are you able to tilt the chuck the receiver is mounted in or are you relying on the raceway to be parallel with it?

and to be clear, i am just trying to understand. i am not doubting the results you are getting. you have obviously thought things through.
 
#20
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the same thing that skullblocked more than a few guys in BR and resulted in all sorts of hate and discontent.</div></div>

Oh make no mistake about it............I'm not skull blocked
 
#21
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

We are taugh not to for a few reasons.

The threads shouldnt aline anything, or DO ANYTHING but hold the barrel in. Its the face/shoulder that holds it square. the threads have one job and they dont need to be perfect to do that job perfectly.
 
#22
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are taugh not to for a few reasons.

The threads shouldnt aline anything, or DO ANYTHING but hold the barrel in. Its the face/shoulder that holds it square. the threads have one job and they dont need to be perfect to do that job perfectly. </div></div>

OMG!
 
#23
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I don't use the race way. I use the hole the bolt runs in. The dial does in fact move, although not very much.

I take an average approach. I got into a high minded discussion over this with Mr. Gordy Gritter; who I happen to respect greatly.

The specifics were concerning a bolt OD/receiver ID fit. The particular action I was working on at the time had a .005" total (diameter) difference from ID/OD of the two mating parts. I sat down at the puter and CAD'd it out just to see the angular deviation from the lugs of the bolt to the lugs of the receiver with the bolt's ass end sticking up when the thing is in battery (due to the loading of the cocking piece on the sear)

It's a number that's burned in my skull so I'll quote it. The angular difference was .0542 of a degree. It worked out to being about .00018" of actual linear distance from the back of the bolt lug to the face of the action lug.

In a laymans term that's a human hair split about 16 times. Mr. Gritter's stated he ran his tolerances to basically half of what I was allowing this bolt to run at. So, ok, his is tighter than mine. I won't argue that or doubt it for a second. What I do firmly stand behind is there's not a bullet on the planet that is going to record any measurable difference between my hair split 16 times and Mr. Gritter's split somewhere around 32 times.

We put man on the moon in the 60's by stuffing him in a tin pringles can and pumping tons of really volatile liquid under his behind. I really have a difficult time accepting that there's a single component on the Saturn 5 rocket that gets carried out five digits to the right of the decimal point and that it made the difference between the moon or a one way trip to Venus. The temp extremes alone demand stuff is going to move around way way more than that. I have to think the forces at work inside a bolt gun as its fired are in the same neighborhood in terms of stress and violence.

If I'm wrong I will be the first in line to eat all the shoe leather the world can cram down my cake hole, but experience just doesn't tell me this is going to happen anytime soon.

If the top minds in BR were making bushed bolts, sending them out to be nitrided, hard chromed, whatever, then finish ground to a 32RMH and doing the same to the receivers then I'd be more inclined to buy into it. We all know that is not the case. It's a pair 12L-17 or maybe annealed 4130 bearing shells that get glued/soldered onto a bolt body and then turned/sanded to fit.

In May 2003 I sat on the firing line at Camp Butner in NC and watched the top 1K yard shooters in the US practice for the world Palma Championships. I was there as an armorer for the team. On one end you have Nesika, Stolle, RPA, CG Millenium, and down on the other you have a beater looking Remington owned by Mr. Norm Crawford. Standing next to me on the line is a buddy named Corbin Shell who won a TN 1K state championship with a Mauser!

If you took all the shooter's plot sheets, scores, X counts, and shuffled them like a deck of cards you'd never know who was who. The clear cut winners that weekend were the folks who obsessed over <span style="font-style: italic">shooting well</span>, not equipment.

It does pay to have good stuff, no doubt and there are things I feel certain have more to do with improving the accuracy of a rifle than sweating over a .002" diameter difference on a part that's 7 inches long. Where I get SUPER effing anal is with my thread fits (on all parts), my chambers, my crowns, and my entirely stupidly over engineered/overcomplicated stock inletting and bedding process.

Cheers,

C
 
#24
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are taugh not to for a few reasons.

The threads shouldnt aline anything, or DO ANYTHING but hold the barrel in. Its the face/shoulder that holds it square. the threads have one job and they dont need to be perfect to do that job perfectly. </div></div>

how can your barrel shoulder and receiver face lock up square and stress free if the receiver threads are pointed in a different direction?
 
#25
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are taugh not to for a few reasons.

The threads shouldnt aline anything, or DO ANYTHING but hold the barrel in. Its the face/shoulder that holds it square. the threads have one job and they dont need to be perfect to do that job perfectly. </div></div>

Opinions vary.
 
#27
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

fair enough chad. i was curious how you did it, not doubting your results. i understand the angular thing due to the clearance between the bolt body and receiver raceway but hand not thought about it before. thanks for clearing that up.
 
#28
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Experiment:

Take a bolt shroud of a remmy that shoots "ok".

Make a new one with a thread fit that actually feels like someone cared when they made it.

Then go shoot it again.

You might be surprised what you find. . .
 
#29
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I'm certainly not one to turn my nose up at the modern CNC approach to building rifles, but I have my manual approach down to what seems like a finer science with the fixtures and tooling that I made to get the job done and it doesn't take that long to do it. By all appearances, there seems to be a few gaps and uncertainties in your approach, not that it really matters, but what you've posted has provoked a little thought about the CNC possibilities. I would certainly be one to use a CNC lathe, but VMC? Probably not....
 
#30
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are taugh not to for a few reasons.

The threads shouldnt aline anything, or DO ANYTHING but hold the barrel in. Its the face/shoulder that holds it square. the threads have one job and they dont need to be perfect to do that job perfectly. </div></div>

OMG! </div></div>

Took the words right out of my mouth.
Sometimes I have to read things over and over to believe what I'm seeing.
 
#31
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Ok, another experiment.

Hold out your arm. Straight from your body. Strain every muscle till your run the risk of pooping yourself.

Now have someone grab your fist and attempt to move it.

Did you get pushed around or were you solid as an oak?

Think about how little the effort was to push you around.

Now, imagine all the dynamics and forces at work on a barrel tennon as that bullet is accelerated from a dead stop to close to (over sometimes) 2.5+ times the speed of sound. Now remember that it does this in a span of roughly 2-3 feet. Now factor in the rotational acceleration, the pressure it takes to do this, the recoil, the heat, vibration, and blah, blah, blah all the other stuff that goes into this.

All of that is supported, contained, managed by a threaded joint that's about an inch long, and typically an inch or so in diameter. It's amazing these things even hit the impact area. If you've convinced yourself that it doesn't make a difference then I wish you the best. My results show a different result.

That's all I have to say about that.
 
#33
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

when you tighten the barrel down, its butting up and squaring off the face. If your relying on the threads to have anything to do with the barrel being square thats funny. the lug must be consistant in thickness, and the face cut true. If the barrel shoulder is cut true, they will mate up and the barrel will be true. Even if you have loose crooked sloppy threads... it will be true.


Maybe you guys should come teach at gunsmithing school
 
#34
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Experiment:

Take a bolt shroud of a remmy that shoots "ok".

Make a new one with a thread fit that actually feels like someone cared when they made it.

Then go shoot it again.

You might be surprised what you find. . . </div></div>

the bolt shroud? Effecting what?
 
#35
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you tighten the barrel down, its butting up and squaring off the face. If your relying on the threads to have anything to do with the barrel being square thats funny. the lug must be consistant in thickness, and the face cut true. If the barrel shoulder is cut true, they will mate up and the barrel will be true. Even if you have loose crooked sloppy threads... it will be true.


Maybe you guys should come teach at gunsmithing school</div></div>

Kieth, I believe they are saying the sloppy threads will create stress in a preferred stress free system and that will effect accuracy. But I'm no smith so that may not be the case.
 
#36
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Its good for business to preach holding tolerances to a tenth, and to say you true everything possible to be trued. In the real world, you might be supprissed who actually does and how important it is.

I'm still in school and can only pass on what I'm being taught. I will say my instructor trues an action in 1/4 the time most guys on here do, and his rifles shoot. He just brought groups in yesterday of one he just made in school... smallest was .177", largest was around half MOA. and it was a 300WM.

Now, I'm not saying what my method will be after school. I may decide to recut the threads, I may not. I will do what I must to build rifles that shoot great. And I will be succesful in doing it.
 
#37
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you tighten the barrel down, its butting up and squaring off the face. If your relying on the threads to have anything to do with the barrel being square thats funny. the lug must be consistant in thickness, and the face cut true. If the barrel shoulder is cut true, they will mate up and the barrel will be true. Even if you have loose crooked sloppy threads... it will be true.


Maybe you guys should come teach at gunsmithing school</div></div>

Kieth, I believe they are saying the sloppy threads will create stress in a preferred stress free system and that will effect accuracy. But I'm no smith so that may not be the case. </div></div>

From reading on the internet, people think Remys are further off than they are. If when you rebarrel one, you cut the thread major slightly smaller, around 1.045", there will be no stress. There's enough slop that it striaghtens out to the newly trued face with no ill effects. Remember where the bearing surface is on threads.... the crests of the threads do almost nothing. The flank is what you want holding everything.

If you guys re-cut them so tight that the crests are putting pressure in the roots... your causing stress you dont even know about and you can even take some pressure off the flanks, which is BAD. Pressure should be overwhelmingly on the flanks
 
#38
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> when you tighten the barrel down, its butting up and squaring off the face. If your relying on the threads to have anything to do with the barrel being square thats funny. the lug must be consistant in thickness, and the face cut true. If the barrel shoulder is cut true, they will mate up and the barrel will be true. <span style="color: #FF0000">Even if you have loose crooked sloppy threads... it will be true.</span> </div></div>

i think loose and sloppy threads is the only way the joint would lock up square and semi-stress free around the circumference of the shoulder if the receiver threads are pointing a different direction than the receiver face. then there is no guarantee that it will even be in line with the center of the bolt face.

now if you are talking about truing the receiver face with a threaded mandrel that is dialed in, that is a different story. that is not the way i would do it but i do know people that do and get the results they are after. personally, i think there is a better, more accurate way and will continue to do use it. i am going to take every step i can to ensure it is as close to perfect as can be.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you guys should come teach at gunsmithing school </div></div>

those that can do, do. those that can't, teach
grin.gif
 
#39
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

I can tell you this bud:

I've built world championship winning 1K Palma Rifles
I've built rifles that hold gold medals in the Olympics
I've built rifles that hold world championships in Silhouette
National records in highpower
Benchrest
smallbore prone
etc. . .

The king of Jordan has 250 sniper rifles for killing terrorists and I built every one them
So does our former President and Vice President.

None of this was done by half assing machine work. I agree there does come a point where it's splitting hairs (read my earlier long winded dissertation) but I can promise you the barrel tennon isn't one of them. Instead of talking to a gunsmith school instructor, talk to an aerospace engineer who designs fasteners for a living. I have a very good friend/colleague that does this and he's paid handsomely for it. If he (they) took the approach your instructors are preaching, the world would look like a knock off Japanese horror film with all the airplanes decaying across the country side.

There's a saying: Those who can do, those who can't, teach.

One thing you need to remember. Building a rifle to shoot well at 100 yards is a little different than getting one to shoot well/exceptional at 1K+. A three shot group that measures a 1/4" at 100 yards doesn't mean a thing to me. Claiming that the gun is exceptional is maybe great from a marketing standpoint, but it's nothing but blue sky in the real world.

Shoot a 45 shot string at 800-900-1000 and lets look at how well the gun holds elevation over the course of fire. First find a qualified trigger puller than can perform to the task. That alone is a challenge in itself.

I'm not a know it all and if I sound that way I sincerely don't mean to. I do however have a student mind and a little experience. I don't know everything, but I do have a pretty good grasp now on what works.

All the best.

C
 
#40
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you tighten the barrel down, its butting up and squaring off the face. If your relying on the threads to have anything to do with the barrel being square thats funny. the lug must be consistant in thickness, and the face cut true. If the barrel shoulder is cut true, they will mate up and the barrel will be true. Even if you have loose crooked sloppy threads... it will be true.


Maybe you guys should come teach at gunsmithing school</div></div>

Kieth, I believe they are saying the sloppy threads will create stress in a preferred stress free system and that will effect accuracy. But I'm no smith so that may not be the case. </div></div>

From reading on the internet, people think Remys are further off than they are. If when you rebarrel one, you cut the thread major slightly smaller, around 1.045", there will be no stress. There's enough slop that it striaghtens out to the newly trued face with no ill effects. Remember where the bearing surface is on threads.... the crests of the threads do almost nothing. The flank is what you want holding everything.

If you guys re-cut them so tight that the crests are putting pressure in the roots... your causing stress you dont even know about and you can even take some pressure off the flanks, which is BAD. Pressure should be overwhelmingly on the flanks </div></div>

no one that knows what they are doing would allow the crest of the threads contact the root of the mating thread. the pitch diameter is where the the threads center. you can have a snug threaded joint without the roots and crests touching. the max pitch diameter of a 3a 1.0625"-16 od thread is 1.0219". the minimum pitch diameter of the female is also 1.0219". if your receiver face wasn't dead nuts square with the thread centerline, you will not get a stress free lock up. granted, i doubt anyone would make the threaded joint quite that tight.
 
#41
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Our instructors "did" for about 30 years each, then decided to teach. I have to respect what they teach and cant shrug it off as nonsense because the internet guys say something else.
One is a cut rifle barrel maker who shoots in 1000 yard BR 35+ years
One is a life time machinist 30+ years
One is a life time stock/rifle builder 35+ years
One is a life time rifle builder who developed many products for Robar, and works with the guys at Mcmillan quite often and has a very good relationship with them. They seems to agree on many things, and Mcmillan holds the school in high regard.


That said, I may decide to do things differently after school.


Just how "off" have you found Remy threads? Many people reading this are thinking theyre 10 degrees off. Theyre not. They are off, but very, very little. Truing the face and lugs are important, but the threads, I dunno.
 
#42
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

no one that knows what they are doing would allow the crest of the threads contact the root of the mating thread. the pitch diameter is where the the threads center. you can have a snug threaded joint without the roots and crests touching. the max pitch diameter of a 3a 1.0625"-16 od thread is 1.0219". the minimum pitch diameter of the female is also 1.0219". if your receiver face wasn't dead nuts square with the thread centerline, you will not get a stress free lock up. granted, i doubt anyone would make the threaded joint quite that tight. </div></div>

I thought I said that


Remy thread size is 1.062 right? Well cut the threads undersize just a a little, 1.045 or so, and make sure your shoulder is nice and square to the bore, and that barrel will be on straight and shoot well.

Thats all I'm saying, thats what we're being taught right now.

We do true the face and lug abutments of course, and indicate in barrel very well for chambering/crowning. This being done, the rifle will be true enough to shoot half minute.(so we're being taught/shown)

when I entered school I questioned our instructor when he said he doesnt recut the threads. He's proving to me that he's right. A good shootin rifle is a good shootin rifle, even if you cant brag about what all you trued.
 
#43
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

you are welcome to do it how ever you see fit. i know that if i ever get to the point where i am charging a customer, i am going to take every step i can to make it as perfect as possible. you and your instructors may be satisfied doing it "just good enough" but i sure am not. if you can make it square, why wouldn't you?
 
#44
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

No not "good enough".

"Right"


I said my mind isnt made up yet. but with the success or teachers are showing its hard to argue.


What do you charge? $350? Well what if I charge $150 and the rifle shoots as well?

Have you tried just truing the face, putting a match barrel on right, and seeing how it shoots? bet it'd shoot half minute
 
#45
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No not "good enough".

"Right"


I said my mind isnt made up yet. but with the success or teachers are showing its hard to argue.


What do you charge? $350? Well what if I charge $150 and the rifle shoots as well? </div></div>

right now, i don't charge. if i get to the point that i do, i don't think i would do a $150 partial truing job. that is not the type of work i want to do. there are plenty of others out there that do that sort of work. i am not sure what i would charge yet but i am not going to do partial truing jobs. i don't want my name on something that isn't done as good as it can be done. that's just me though.
 
#46
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

You call it a partial truing job but dont know the degree that the threads are "off" in the first place?
Kinda assuming things isnt it?


And how do you say a rifle is less than yours, if it shoots as well all the time?
I plan on selling great rifles, not truing jobs

Im off to school. Maybe I'll pick my instructors brain on it more
 
#47
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its good for business to preach holding tolerances to a tenth, and to say you true everything possible to be trued. In the real world, you might be supprissed who actually does and how important it is.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Do you KNOW or is this simply what you are "taught and passing on"? I have a hard time thinking you have enough experience to know what actually does what and why. </span>

I'm still in school and can only pass on what I'm being taught.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You can think, understand and then form an opinion
smile.gif
Taking ANYTHING at face value can waste a lot of time if you don't understand what is going on.</span>

I will say my instructor trues an action in 1/4 the time most guys on here do, and his rifles shoot. He just brought groups in yesterday of one he just made in school... smallest was .177", largest was around half MOA. and it was a 300WM.

<span style="color: #FF0000">So he is a better smith than many here?</span>

Now, I'm not saying what my method will be after school. I may decide to recut the threads, I may not. I will do what I must to build rifles that shoot great. And I will be succesful in doing it. </div></div>

How many have YOU actually checked?
It's interesting to see guys trickle information from one source to another and then defend that it must be true. When they go up against guys who are doing the job and have a good name it's something else though
wink.gif
 
#48
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

keith, how are your instructors suggesting you true the receiver lug abutments? are they having you set up the receiver true to the raceway center line? if so, while it is set up true in the lathe, you should thread a mandrel into the receiver and check the run out at a couple places on it. that is the direction your chamber is going to be pointing in relation to the bolt face. if there is no run out, then i don't see any benefit to chasing the threads. i bet there is going to be significant run out though.
 
#50
Re: Consensus on recutting remington 700 threads

Like I said, I haven't decided on anything. Just saying some stuff we're taught.
And 1.045 is a little small I shouldn't have said that small just making a point.

A few thou off the major will make it snug up square.
Using a thread chasing mandrel is a good idea but those don't open the thread size up like recutting it does.


Tell me what's wrong with using those? I think PT&G even sells one.
Run one of those in, then put it on a mandrel for facing, then true the bolt with a driver and a steady rest.
Do that, then barrel as normal.
That's the way we're being taught. No action spiders. No recutting the threads in a lathe.
 
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