Crimped primer pockets

[Rmitch223]

I recently acquired 200pcs of once fired federal .223 Rem brass.

I'm fairly new to loading for .223 and all the brass I have worked with up to this point has not had crimped primer pockets.

So last night I made a quick trip to bass pro to get a Lyman primer pocket reamer to remove the crimps. I attached the reamer to my RCBS trim mate it ran 25 cases threw using it. Visually it looked like the reamer removed the crimp.

Then I went to prime these 25 cases and the primers would not even start into the primer pocket.
So I guess this Lyman reamer did not remove the crimp.
The O.D. of the reamer measured .169" and a unspent primer (CCI No. 400) measured .175".

What in-expensive tool do I need to remove these crimps?

 

[Scratchthejeepguy]

I'm guessing 100.00 is too much, but I love my Dillon Super Swage 600.

 

[NineInchNails]

After removing the crimp, I would then use a Lyman Primer Pocket Uniformer. That should take care of it. Works great on the Trim Mate! You should only have to use the uniformer once on your brass. It should not need uniformed again in the future. I'm still a newb, but I've found it very very helpful to have a primer pocket uniformer for everything I've loaded so far. Even for new brass. New brass isn't perfect and the uniformer makes the primer pocket correct & consistent from round to round. I use it on once fired brass too.

 

[amp]

I use a 45degree countersink bit in a drill press. Chuck it up, turn it on and just touch the primer pocket to the bit to remove the crimp.
I also have the RCBS tool and it sucks.

 

[exx1976]

+1 for the Dillon Super Swage. At $100 it's an investment, but you can also then use military 9mm, and I recently found some factory .308 rounds have crimped pockets as well.

 

[427Cobra]

Buy Once Cry Once, Dillon Super Swedge 600

 

[afrancke]

What, no "buy once, cry once" recommendation for the Dillon 1050 press? If you're loading 223 you'll want to get there anyway someday

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I use the RCBS Swager kit, because that is what I started with. I also use the Case-Master Prep center, primer pocket uniformer, and then the shallow angle internal chamfer bit, and just give them a touch after uniforming them. My primers have not given me any problem since. I also know the pockets are deep enough for the primer to be about .002-.003 below level.
I do want to buy the Dillon Super Swage, and will probably automate it. I saw a good video on how to automate it with a good rubber band and a string. Might try to improve on that, we'll see. But for now, money being tight, I have other priorities, and my current method works well if it does take a little time.

 

[afrancke]

Sniper Uncle, does the RCBS swager depend on case length to set swage depth/amount? The Dillon does which is my only beef with it - would have been ideal in my view if it had been designed around a shell holder rather a bit like a primer so it wouldn't need to be adjusted for brass length, could be used prior to trimming if desired, etc.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Sniper Uncle, does the RCBS swager depend on case length to set swage depth/amount? The Dillon does which is my only beef with it - would have been ideal in my view if it had been designed around a shell holder rather a bit like a primer so it wouldn't need to be adjusted for brass length, could be used prior to trimming if desired, etc.

No. It is a die that you put in your press, and a special shell holder that is sized for either large or small primers---kit has whole enchilada, die, case remover, two pins, and two shell holders.
You use the large pin in the die, like a decapping pin, but it contacts the web of the base of the case, inside, and presses it down onto the shell holder/swager. (You can adjust this pin to get the full depth swaging.) Then, when you lower the ram, there is a sleeve that bottoms out before the shell holder does, and removes the case from the swager. If I was at home, I'd give you a pic, but I'm about 650 miles from home now. I use a tiny bit of Imperial Sizing wax, and I rotate the case 180 degrees and swage again. Kit is about $35-45, not too expensive. I might have pics of it in my thread on converting berdan to boxer prime.

Edit: I checked, and I didn't include that part in the thread or the pics.

 

[P7id10t]

I ran into the same thing. Saw this at Cabelas, bought it and couldn't be happier
Lyman Products Your Primary Source for Reloading Equipment

 

[P7id10t]

What, no "buy once, cry once" recommendation for the Dillon 1050 press? If you're loading 223 you'll want to get there anyway someday

No, that would be "buy once, sob for a week."

 

[exx1976]

Sniper Uncle, does the RCBS swager depend on case length to set swage depth/amount? The Dillon does which is my only beef with it - would have been ideal in my view if it had been designed around a shell holder rather a bit like a primer so it wouldn't need to be adjusted for brass length, could be used prior to trimming if desired, etc.

The Dillon Super Swage does NOT depend on brass length.

The shellholder swagers are inferior, at best, because all the force of swaging the primer pocket is exerted against the extractor groove. This groove is meant for an extractor to tug rather gently on, not for you to be able to exert hundreds of pounds of pressure to reform the metal of the case. If you like case heads that may end up slightly bent, by all means get one of those solutions. C4HD or CH4D or whatever makes a similar one.

The reason the Dillon method is better is because the rod that goes into the case supports the case by the web - the thickest part of the case. The primer pocket is then "sandwiched" between the supporting rod and the swaging rod. Do you have to adjust it for different calibers? Absolutely. Do you have to adjust it for different headstamps within the same caliber? Absolutely. But it has nothing to do with cartridge length, and will get you superior results, every time, when used properly.

PS - adjusting the rod takes literally a second or two. Go find one and handle it for yourself, you'll understand then.

 

[afrancke]

The Dillon Super Swage does NOT depend on brass length.

Is this really true? It didn't seem that way when I set mine up, but maybe I mistook length for differences in web thickness between head stamp makes (or whatever you are indicating the swager indexes off of).

 

[exx1976]

Is this really true? It didn't seem that way when I set mine up, but maybe I mistook length for differences in web thickness between head stamp makes (or whatever you are indicating the swager indexes off of).

Really? "Is this really true"? No, of course I'm lying to you.

Go swage a piece of 9mm brass and tell me how it's "indexing".

 

[afrancke]

Really? "Is this really true"? No, of course I'm lying to you.

Go swage a piece of 9mm brass and tell me how it's "indexing".

Interesting response - I wasn't questioning your integrity. I've only swaged 223 on mine but I can see what you're getting at.

 

[Scratchthejeepguy]

Is this really true? It didn't seem that way when I set mine up, but maybe I mistook length for differences in web thickness between head stamp makes (or whatever you are indicating the swager indexes off of).

I'll second that the Dillon does not depend on case length. Check out some YouTube videos and you'll see how it works.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

The Dillon Super Swage does NOT depend on brass length.

The shellholder swagers are inferior, at best, because all the force of swaging the primer pocket is exerted against the extractor groove. This groove is meant for an extractor to tug rather gently on, not for you to be able to exert hundreds of pounds of pressure to reform the metal of the case. If you like case heads that may end up slightly bent, by all means get one of those solutions. C4HD or CH4D or whatever makes a similar one.

The reason the Dillon method is better is because the rod that goes into the case supports the case by the web - the thickest part of the case. The primer pocket is then "sandwiched" between the supporting rod and the swaging rod. Do you have to adjust it for different calibers? Absolutely. Do you have to adjust it for different headstamps within the same caliber? Absolutely. But it has nothing to do with cartridge length, and will get you superior results, every time, when used properly.

PS - adjusting the rod takes literally a second or two. Go find one and handle it for yourself, you'll understand then.

What the Hell are you talking about???? The RCBS "Shellholder" part of the swager does not touch the case extracter groove. It simply has a button that swages the primer pocket, and that is it's only contact with the shell. The die has a pin that presses the web of the case directly over the primer pocket, and pushes it onto the swager. If the Dillon does this too, great, but get your facts straight, please before you condemn a die you don't understand.

 

[turbo54]

I've recently swaged ~10k pieces of mixed-headstamp 223 brass on the Dillon SS600.

From my experience, you can set the rod so you achieve a "perfect" swage upon lever cam-over for a given headstamp.

If you want a "perfect" swage upon lever cam-over with a different headstamp, you have to adust the rod.

I'll say this: No way in bloody hell I'm f'n sorting 10k pieces of mixed 223 brass!

I found that if you set the rod to OVERSWAGE upon cam-over, you can swage any headstamp sufficiently - you just have to pull the lever and stop BY FEEL, NOT CAM OVER.

Results won't be as consistent as setting the rod for each headstamp, but it's entirely adequate. I've loaded ~5k pcs of this brass so far and have not had any priming issues.

 

[exx1976]

What the Hell are you talking about???? The RCBS "Shellholder" part of the swager does not touch the case extracter groove. It simply has a button that swages the primer pocket, and that is it's only contact with the shell. The die has a pin that presses the web of the case directly over the primer pocket, and pushes it onto the swager. If the Dillon does this too, great, but get your facts straight, please before you condemn a die you don't understand.

Re-read my post, then please re-read your complaint. I didn't mention RCBS, and I didn't see you mention a shellholder. I think we are talking about two different things, here, sir.

 

[exx1976]

Interesting response - I wasn't questioning your integrity. I've only swaged 223 on mine but I can see what you're getting at.

If you have one, and you've swaged .223 on it already, then you should notice that even though you are, indeed, swaging the primer pocket, when the swage ram is IN the primer pocket, you should still be able to wiggle the mouth end of the case around on the rod. The case mouth is completely unsupported; the rod is only there as a pilot to help you line up the primer pocket with the ram.

Case length plays no part in the design of the Dillon.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Re-read my post, then please re-read your complaint. I didn't mention RCBS, and I didn't see you mention a shellholder. I think we are talking about two different things, here, sir.

My apologies. If you take a good look at your post, and see the quote there, the quote was specifically about the RCBS versus the Dillon. Thus, you are apparently including the RCBS in the group of "shell holder class", as your quoted poster was asking me about a previous post where I had mentioned a "shell holder."

 

[milo 2.0]

My apologies. If you take a good look at your post, and see the quote there, the quote was specifically about the RCBS versus the Dillon. Thus, you are apparently including the RCBS in the group of "shell holder class", as your quoted poster was asking me about a previous post where I had mentioned a "shell holder."

Pay the fuck attention here uncle, this is a fast paced site. Don't make me give Auntie a holler, she's stroking that Mandingo sized brute right now, and any ass wiping advice I gave before will not be applicable!!

 

[exx1976]

My apologies. If you take a good look at your post, and see the quote there, the quote was specifically about the RCBS versus the Dillon. Thus, you are apparently including the RCBS in the group of "shell holder class", as your quoted poster was asking me about a previous post where I had mentioned a "shell holder."

Apologies for the somewhat muddy quote. I was referring to back half of his quote "would have been ideal in my view if it had been designed around a shell holder rather a bit like a primer so it wouldn't need to be adjusted for brass length, could be used prior to trimming if desired, etc." C4HD or CH4D or whatever their name is does make one that uses shellholders (and I'm sure others do, as well). They are bad because they stress the extractor/case head too much, that was my only point.


And actually, now that I re-read what I quoted again as I pasted it in here, if he is going to all the trouble of trimming brass before swaging with the Dillon, that is unnecessary, given his recent revelation that case length plays no part in the Dillon. My order of operations for AR brass:

Deprime
Tumble
Swage
Lube
Size
Tumble
Trim
Chamfer
Debur
Prime
Powder
Seat
BANG!
Repeat (trimming only when necessary, of course - but I ALWAYS trim once-fired brass, just so they are all uniform).

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Pay the fuck attention here uncle, this is a fast paced site. Don't make me give Auntie a holler, she's stroking that Mandingo sized brute right now, and any ass wiping advice I gave before will not be applicable!!

Now, Now, Milo, you tell Auntie to STFU! Her place is barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, not getting involved in manly squabbles!!! ;-)

 

[afrancke]

If he is going to all the trouble of trimming brass before swaging with the Dillon, that is unnecessary, given his recent revelation that case length plays no part in the Dillon.

I wouldn't say it's any extra trouble - the once-fired need to be swaged and trimmed (in any order if it makes no difference).

 

[exx1976]

I wouldn't say it's any extra trouble - the once-fired need to be swaged and trimmed (in any order if it makes no difference).

Agreed. My resopnse was more dependent on if the brass actually NEEDS trimming at that point. I trim mine anyway, because I'm anal like that. But the dozen or so pieces I samples from my last 2k piece order did not require trimming before loading the first time. So I guess my point is that you may be able to go one or two reloads on 1x fired brass before you have to trim (if you feel so inclined).

 

[KHOOKS]

I've never work with any crimped brass. I see how the Dillon swage works but, do you just remove the primer like any other brass? I'd think the primer would not want to come out with the crimp still there but this is not what the video of the super swage shows.

 

[afrancke]

You remove the primers before swaging. The primers can be tougher to push out with the crimp, but that's what a Lee decapping die is for. Cheap and easy.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

No, the primer does push out moderately easily. Some times the center bulges out first, but they all come out eventually. Sometimes you have to run the press a couple times to get the primer to drop---I think the decapping pin may get pinched in the primer and start to seat it again as you drop the ram---but they always plop on the second press.