I am new to straight wall reloading. I bought a .44 mag marlin and want to know what the best way to crimp is. Ive read about both but none of them actually state which I should use for a marlin. I also would like reccomendations on what die to use. I would like to crimp as a seperate step. Thanks
Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
- Thread starter nhassey48
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Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I seat and crimp at the same time with the RCBS carbide die set, works very well. Don't think I'd want to put it in as a separate step as I tend to load bulk quantities and it would just add another (and in my case unnecessary) operation.
I seat and crimp at the same time with the RCBS carbide die set, works very well. Don't think I'd want to put it in as a separate step as I tend to load bulk quantities and it would just add another (and in my case unnecessary) operation.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die...it's worked well for the 150,000+ loads my wife and I have put through our lever action rifles in Cowboy Action Shooting competitions. We have never had a failure to chamber in 12 years of shooting pistol-caliber lever guns, and we do quite well in the long range side matches, so my ammo is reliable and accurate, and I feel a major contributing factor to this consistency is the Lee die.
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die...it's worked well for the 150,000+ loads my wife and I have put through our lever action rifles in Cowboy Action Shooting competitions. We have never had a failure to chamber in 12 years of shooting pistol-caliber lever guns, and we do quite well in the long range side matches, so my ammo is reliable and accurate, and I feel a major contributing factor to this consistency is the Lee die.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I have a dissenting opinion on the Carbide FCD based on personal experience and observing other ammunition that was reloaded with it.
I have a CFCD in 45 colt (like 44 mag, also a roll crimp), and it is very poorly designed and fabricated. The ID of the crimp ring is purposefully made large, so that it is less likely to buckle the case too bad if the die is not adjusted properly or the case length is too long (too much crimp). The only problem is that it lets the case mouth slip under (inside) the crimp ring before the roll is finished into the cannelure. What's worse, it looks like it was finished on a coarse grinding wheel, so it scrapes up the case mouth as it slips under. I get a half-done roll crimp with a badly scraped up case mouth. This is not an isolated problem, since I have seen similar looking crimps on gun show reloads, and when I asked about the crimp, the proprietor (reloader) proudly proclaimed they were 100% Lee CFCD crimped.
I use a Hornady seating die, and it roll crimps beautifully while seating the bullet. If your case lengths are uniform, seating and roll crimping at the same time is easy to set up, and works well with most seating die brands. If you have a progressive with an extra station for a separate crimp die, and/or want to shoot range brass that varies in length without trimming, then a separate roll crimp die is a good idea, and the Redding Profile crimp die is very good.
I have no experience with CFCD taper crimp dies, but in general, if the carbide ring touches your cartridge, something else in your setup is wrong (case length, seating die, crimp setup, etc.) that needs to be found and fixed at its source, rather than ironed over by the carbide ring of the CFCD. If it does not touch your cartridge, then it is doing nothing that a conventional crimp die wouldn't do.
Note that the Lee FCD for rifle and bottleneck pistol cartridges is a completely different die design, and uses a collet to crimp the case mouth. These work extremely well, and have none of the disadvantages of the CFCD. They often need a little polishing where the collet and closer meet, but once done this is a fantastic die.
Andy
I have a dissenting opinion on the Carbide FCD based on personal experience and observing other ammunition that was reloaded with it.
I have a CFCD in 45 colt (like 44 mag, also a roll crimp), and it is very poorly designed and fabricated. The ID of the crimp ring is purposefully made large, so that it is less likely to buckle the case too bad if the die is not adjusted properly or the case length is too long (too much crimp). The only problem is that it lets the case mouth slip under (inside) the crimp ring before the roll is finished into the cannelure. What's worse, it looks like it was finished on a coarse grinding wheel, so it scrapes up the case mouth as it slips under. I get a half-done roll crimp with a badly scraped up case mouth. This is not an isolated problem, since I have seen similar looking crimps on gun show reloads, and when I asked about the crimp, the proprietor (reloader) proudly proclaimed they were 100% Lee CFCD crimped.
I use a Hornady seating die, and it roll crimps beautifully while seating the bullet. If your case lengths are uniform, seating and roll crimping at the same time is easy to set up, and works well with most seating die brands. If you have a progressive with an extra station for a separate crimp die, and/or want to shoot range brass that varies in length without trimming, then a separate roll crimp die is a good idea, and the Redding Profile crimp die is very good.
I have no experience with CFCD taper crimp dies, but in general, if the carbide ring touches your cartridge, something else in your setup is wrong (case length, seating die, crimp setup, etc.) that needs to be found and fixed at its source, rather than ironed over by the carbide ring of the CFCD. If it does not touch your cartridge, then it is doing nothing that a conventional crimp die wouldn't do.
Note that the Lee FCD for rifle and bottleneck pistol cartridges is a completely different die design, and uses a collet to crimp the case mouth. These work extremely well, and have none of the disadvantages of the CFCD. They often need a little polishing where the collet and closer meet, but once done this is a fantastic die.
Andy
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I've been roll-crimping my 45-70 loads without issue, with RCBS dies.
Moly'd bullets might not be such a good idea for a tubular magazine. The reduced friction between bullet/case may enable bullets slip in the necks under recoil. Just a thought.
I've been roll-crimping my 45-70 loads without issue, with RCBS dies.
Moly'd bullets might not be such a good idea for a tubular magazine. The reduced friction between bullet/case may enable bullets slip in the necks under recoil. Just a thought.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I use the Lee crimp dies as well. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I prefer to crimp in a separate step and have never like the roll crimps built into seating dies.
I use the Lee crimp dies as well. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I prefer to crimp in a separate step and have never like the roll crimps built into seating dies.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
Just be aware that the Lee factory crimp die made for handguncartridges will both crimp AND SIZE the case...that is bad mojo for those off us who like to load cast boolits(cause it will size the boolit down in dia). Works fine with jacketed bullets though.
The lfcd for rifle cartridges does not have this feature and only does the crimp-part.
Just be aware that the Lee factory crimp die made for handguncartridges will both crimp AND SIZE the case...that is bad mojo for those off us who like to load cast boolits(cause it will size the boolit down in dia). Works fine with jacketed bullets though.
The lfcd for rifle cartridges does not have this feature and only does the crimp-part.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
It only sizes the case down when loaded if the base is cocked and the case bulged, or the diameter of the load is over SAAMI max...that carbide ring feature insures that the round will chamber without binding. If you are loading cast bullets that exceed the nominal diameter of the bore, and load them in cases that are subsequently bulged...that is okay if the loaded round fits YOUR firearm. It doesn't necessarily mean that that load will fit all firearms made to SAAMI specs. The FCD is made the way it is to avoid the "UH-OH" when you try to fit the bulged cases into someone elses firearm...or yours in a hurry up situation. JMHO
It only sizes the case down when loaded if the base is cocked and the case bulged, or the diameter of the load is over SAAMI max...that carbide ring feature insures that the round will chamber without binding. If you are loading cast bullets that exceed the nominal diameter of the bore, and load them in cases that are subsequently bulged...that is okay if the loaded round fits YOUR firearm. It doesn't necessarily mean that that load will fit all firearms made to SAAMI specs. The FCD is made the way it is to avoid the "UH-OH" when you try to fit the bulged cases into someone elses firearm...or yours in a hurry up situation. JMHO
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I roll crimp my 45-70 and 480 Ruger loads. RCBS does a fine job...
I roll crimp my 45-70 and 480 Ruger loads. RCBS does a fine job...
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
Exactly, but most often you load cast-boolits that are .001 to .003 inches oversize for a perfect chamber/barrel-fit to gain optimum accuracy.
(this is a reply to post#2442031 two steps up)
Exactly, but most often you load cast-boolits that are .001 to .003 inches oversize for a perfect chamber/barrel-fit to gain optimum accuracy.
(this is a reply to post#2442031 two steps up)
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
A good roll crimp is perfect. Just make sure all your brass is the same length. If the length of the case varies, then the crimp will vary. This can cause differences in group size and velocity.
A good roll crimp is perfect. Just make sure all your brass is the same length. If the length of the case varies, then the crimp will vary. This can cause differences in group size and velocity.
Re: Crimping in a Marlin lever gun
I have been experimenting with many bottlenecked cartridges, and they all seem to want the bullet jammed into the lands for best accuracy.
But 44 mag and 45 Colt rifles seem to want a roll crimp into the canalure for best accuracy.
I don't know why, maybe it is the powder I use, H110, seems to like roll crimps.
I have been experimenting with many bottlenecked cartridges, and they all seem to want the bullet jammed into the lands for best accuracy.
But 44 mag and 45 Colt rifles seem to want a roll crimp into the canalure for best accuracy.
I don't know why, maybe it is the powder I use, H110, seems to like roll crimps.
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