Hunting & Fishing Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

[JC Steel]

Hey guys,


SO I really want to build a hunting rifle. But I am not too familiar with what to do as I really only have heavier tactial and match rifles.


I am going to be using this rifle for hunting only, 25 yards to 800 yards.

Anything from ground hogs, coyotes, deer, elk, moose and everything in between.

I would like it to be somewhat of a lighter rifle. All scoped up, 7-8 pounds would be nice. not looking for heavier than that.


Here are my thoughts!

What I have so far is a Stiller Long action Tac 300 with a 308 bolt face.

Thats it!


I am thinking about this-

Manners ultralight stock with/without mini chasis. It would be nice to have the detachable magazine.

#5 contour fluted barrel to finish at 24 inches or less. .700 at the muzzle with heavy fluting.

.280 rem is what I am thinking, good choice? I thought about going to the Ackley but dont know alot about that.....


I am planning on shooting the Long range 7mm 168 grain accubonds. Until I get them in my hands, I will shoot the 168 Berger.

I think this will be light enough to get in the weight, but I am not sure.


What are your thoughts??


Thanks for looking,
Jake

 

[gebhardt02]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

I have two rifles fitted with Bartlein #5 contour barrels heavy fluted, chambered in .243, one in a McMillan A3 the other in an HTG. Weight is around 12 pounds for the A3 stocked rifle with scope, bipod, sling, etc.

If you are trying to get weight down, the stock choice might be critical if you are still going to use the #5 contour (standard target) but I haven't looked up weight difference between the Manners you are talking about and the A3 I have. Scope choice will also play a part.

I think your caliber selection is good, I'd rather be on the side of adequate for the heaviest animal you plan to hunt and be way over caliber for the smallest than vice versa.

To save weight you could go with the Talley rings and a decent hunting type scope such as a Leupold 3.5-10X40. Other than that you'll need to go down in barrel contour. I also flute my barrels just to stick with as heavy a barrel as I can but reduce weight a touch.

I think you'll be over weight a bit but honestly, the 12 pound rifle isn't bad to carry at all around the hills of MT (not the mtns). Good luck with your build, sounds like it should be a heck of a rifle.

Geb

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

The barrel contour I am think of is the heavy magnum sporter. .700 at the muzzle. And fluted.

The stock manners makes is something like 27 ounces. So rather light, although the mini chassis will add another 10 ounces.

 

[Fisky]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

Jake, I'm kind of going through the same thing you are right now...

Check this thread out, regarding the Manners SL stock. There are a couple posts in there with barrel contours, lengths and weights. You are going to be quite a bit over weight with a #5, especially if you add the chassis.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...944#Post3685944

 

[Fisky]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

And I'm currently stuck with a SA std bolt face. Thinking a #3 Bartlein chambered in 284 Win...But my mind changes about every hour.

 

[strick9]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

On DBM and a humping/hunting rig, Here is my experience, I have forgot my mag at the truck, cussed it a ton as it caught on brush or hung it on the stand adjusting for the shot making noise and had the mag detach accidentaly while humping. Now If I were going to run DBM it would be Jereds at APA period.

I run the same stock model as well as same trigger and pull weight on all my rigs to keep muscle memory simple.

So if your tac rigs are all A3s stay A3 etc. I shoot prone and free hand just fine with the A3 and the cheek weld is always perfect though I do run a stock pack as well.

I also prefer a short action and 22 inch barrel for ease of carrying afield but that is mute if you have the Tac 300 in hand.

The rig I am putting together now:
7 saum
180 bergers or maybe 168s
Brux #5 heavy spiral fluted and finished at 22 inches
Surgeon 591 wsm (When I can find one somewhere)
A3 edge fill
Regular old BDL metal
Wyatts box
NXS 5.5x22x56 NPR1 (31 oz, if March made a 3x24x50 it would be here)
XTR low rings
Shilen trigger.

Should come in at 9lbs plus or minus.

 

[Night Hunter]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

Another thing to keep in mind is ammo. Obviously most on here reload. But, on some wild chance you go on a trip and forget your ammo or a bag is lost, commercially available ammo is nice.

Of course the 280 AI may very well be the perfect North American big game caliber.

I happen to run a 7saum similar to the one above, just a bit heavier and a .308 with a 20" tube for closer work.

 

[DirtyDave]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

280 Rem is a great choice (anything using the '06 case is awesome). You are going to have to re-think your barrel contour and length choice to get to your target weight. I would go with a #3 or #4 contour and 22-24" max.
My Remington 721 Hunting Rifle that I had built a few months ago weighs 8lbs without scope. 721 action, original wood stock, #3 contour 22" barrel (not fluted).

ps: forget about the detachable mag for hunting. More of a pain than a convenience. If you find yourself in a situation where you have to dump a magazine then reload as quickly as possible when hunting big game, you're doing it wrong.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

I actually agree on the Detachable mag set up, its not only heavier but yeah, it might be a pain in the feild, Not as streamline, can get caught on branches, etc, etc, BUT, I hate bedding a rifle. Thats really my only things about it. For some reason I have had excellent luck with chasis systems and accuracy. So I was leaning that way.

OK, so if I go BDL floor hinge, that will save some weight. And I run a T5 Manners with a Chasis and an AICS stock. Both WAY TOO heavy for a hunting rig. Although I love the idea of consitancy.

Here is what I am looking at for weights so far.

All in ounces-

Stiller Tac 300 action--30 ounces
Manners MCS super light--27 ounces
Brux #5 at finish 23 inches and Fluted---48 ounces
BDL floor hinge plate bottom metal--5 ounces(guess)
Seekins 30mm low rings--4 ounces
Nightforce 3.5-15x50MM Mil/MLR--30 ounces, ***(I know its heavy, but I already have it and dont know if there is even a better option for hunting scope, its reliable and plenty of magnification to get to where I might want to go.)

Total without scope is 114 ounces or 7.125 pounds

Total with heavy nightforce is 144 ounces or 9 pounds.

Either way, not too bad I guess, althought I wish I was in the 7.5 pound all scoped up.

With a lighter scope, maybe a swaro or ziess, It would be lighter, and might have better glass, But I just dont think it would be as reliable for adjustments as the Nightforce. My opinion only.


The barrel is fairly short, and fluted, so I think I am about good there. Maybe,

where else can I shave weight?

 

[strick9]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

JC, I have been through the have to have 7-8lb rig many times and have personally built about ten trying to reach my happy warm fuzzy place and finally have, its 9lbs and damn the money I spend figuring that out. Between recoil and form sacrifice, it just ends up 9lbs everytime and when I have built a 7-8lbr well it was just lacking.

To shave weight your either going to have to shorten the barrel, or go with a lighter contour.
or dump the NF and get a March ( yea I can't do that either)

I haven't run the ballistics on the barrel length and 280 but suspect you begin hurting yourself and defeating the caliber under 22 inches but go as short as you can to give you your desired MV.

Bohem get out of yer tree and run these numbers bro.

If your running the T5, I would stick with it and have Tom build it in his 90% carbon fiber. That Superlight is going to feel strange to you and make your body second guess cheek weld and muscle memory etc. Don't get me wrong, I am threading needles here and I am sure you will be able to shoot it, but your body being trained to the T5 and then picking up the SCL ain't savy or at least its not for me, cost me a lot of money in stocks to figure that one out.

I never shoot anyone else s bow for that very reason. Muscle memory and form are hard to gain and easy to loose and confuse.

That said I have never seen crippled steel run off only to be found days later with vultures circling it due to a pulled shot. I do everything I can to provide the cleanest most ethical path to my dinner plate as possible for all my game. I hunt hard, public land, 2 miles in one way and out of a climber or spot and stalk mostly so it all counts.

 

[bohem]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

Yeah yeah yeah... I was low crawling for slickheads last night too.

I'd take Strick9's advice... mostly because I have given him my thoughts over the past 3 years to this effect as well and the two of us have seen builds come and go since 2009 to basically this approach.

ETA: The man knows his stuff in the woods, inside and out. I learned more hunting with Dave over 1 season while I was in SC than I've learned in the previous 10 years of doing it wrong myself (and still somehow managing to kill deer occasionally). I still call him often to pick his brain when I'm working on a new piece of property.

The 280 is a great caliber, I loved mine. At 26" barrel length I was getting easy 2800-2825 from the 180's and that packs plenty of killing ability on all your listed game to 800yd. It also gave me plenty of ability to hit targets at 1500yd if I wanted too, but I wouldn't hunt anything bigger than vermin out there.

The 22-24" barrel is about where I'd go on it. Keep the contour a little lighter, I personally skip fluting and go to a lighter overall contour.

The 168 Accubonds have mediocre ballistics, the form of the bullet is just poor. I'd much rather hunt with the 162 Amax or an SST/GMX/Berger Hunting bullet than to pay for Accubonds and take the hit in ballistics.

I'd flat skip the DBM unless you're going to go with APA's bottom metal here. Really though, the DBM allows me to leave a magazine in the truck, forget something, snag it, etc.

The mini-chassis is not the right route here IMO. I know you've said you don't like bedding rifles but for this I'd just do it and get it done with. You have the action, you have the stock picked, pay for the bedding or read up the thread on here and do it yourself. It's not very difficult and in the end you'll save about half a pound.

The other thing that I don't like about the mini-chassis for a hunting rifle is the mag release type. The blade release is prone to sticking me in the chest with a chest carry, stabbing my back when slung on a shoulder, snagging at the most inopportune time and dropping the mag loose. The blade release style works great on tac rifles, but for something you're going to hump through the brush I'd just pass on it. I've got it on my match rifle and I've hunting several times with that match rifle. It always connects, it always sucks carrying it, and it's only a 22" 6.5CM

Good luck with the build, I really like the 280 Rem, the caliber is excellent.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

the new long range 168 grain Nosler accubond has estimated BC that are better than all the above bullets listed. thats why I was thinking of that. Plus I think for hunting purposes, its a good bonded bullet.

But until I get some, yea, I was thinking the Berger 168 hunting VLD.

OK, I will ditch the chasis, after thinking about it and reading you'alls thoughts, its not a smart choice.

 

[Fisky]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
OK, I will ditch the chasis, after thinking about it and reading you'alls thoughts, its not a smart choice.

</div></div>

Good decision...I hunted with the Manners Chassis for one season and I'll never again use a DBM for hunting. I accidentally dropped my mag out more than once, from the release catching on shit.

I think the only way you're going to get your weight down to where you want it is to get away from the #5 contour barrel. And you'll still probably need a lighter scope, too. You could also consider a MCM Edge stock over the Manners. That will shave a few ounces off.

 

[bohem]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the new long range 168 grain Nosler accubond has estimated BC that are better than all the above bullets listed.
</div></div>

They tried to say that with the e-tips in 2010 but that was total baloney. As soon as I opened the box of them I knew that I'd been had.

For a good bonded bullet that's at least being "honest" about capability I like the Hornady SST.

I wouldn't have an issue shooting the Bergers though I have been shooting things with Amax's the last couple of years.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

have you seen this yet?

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/nosler-long-range-accubond-additional-info-101670/

 

[strick9]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

Holy Crappers, I just caught on to what you were saying " The new long range Accubond"

LR Accubond 168grn G1= .652
Berger VLD 168grn G1= .617
LR Accubond 175grn G1= .672
Berger VLD 180 grn G1= .659

If this is true, then I know what I will be running as well brada!

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

Yeah, its pretty awesome, I have heard wind of these bullets for about a year now. And they announced them officially last month as a new product. Coming out early next year.


BUT, nosler usually bases there BC's off of a computer program, which historically with there bullets has been roughly 6-8% inflated.

That being said, even with an 8% inflation, the Nosler 168 grain LR accubond still is at a plus .600 BC bullet. And if its a premium hunting bullet!!!! Holy smokes, that is what I am looking forward to.

 

[O_W]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

I personally like the MCS DBM in my hunting rig, I run a Manners GAT-MCS on my Ed Brown 300 WM. The whole thing with the scope is 10 lbs. I have not had issues losing mags etc and have drug that rifle all over the place.

The HS bottom metal would be a good option.

These guys have already said it but lose 2 lbs off the pack or the gut instead of trying to milk the rifle down to nothing weight wise.

You'll be happier in the long run.

 

[bohem]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

I saw the list, I haven't seen pictures of the bullets yet, which is what I fell for last time.

Looking at the list the BC's are impressive but when you check the form factors, especially for the 210gr 30cal it makes me really wonder.

SD = (210/7000)/(.3^2) = 0.3333...

BC_g7 = 0.73 = SD/i_g7
--> i_g7 = SD/BC_g7 = 0.3333/0.366 = 0.910

That would be the best bullet that Nosler's ever produced. I'm not saying that it's impossible, just that their track record has not been supportive of their published ballistic coefficients. It would be fantastic if the thing if it was true, even 6-8% would be great.

I would believe 8% lower much more easily, the 210 LR Accubond would then have a BC that would be reasonably close to a 208 Amax with some improvements.

I really hope that my skepticism turns to be unfounded for the same reasons you're mentioning. A true, long range capable bullet that competes with match bullets and yet maintains a strong, bonded construction would be fantastic.

 

[tlsmith22]

Re: Critique me hunting rifle build please!!!

I jus did a build(or put together) and my goal was 9 lbs including scope. I went with a Rem 700 bdl(used, old 40x trigger), standard bdl countour barrel and fluted 300wm. I added a B&C Alskan Ti stock bedded and floated barrel. I added HS Precision DBM because the rifle had factory DBM and had no feed rails(I wasnt told that on gunbroker). I used a solid picatinny aluminum rail and TPS aluminum rings with a Zeiss 4.5-14x44 and mine ended up weighing 9 lb 2 ounces. I thought about a NF 3-15 scope but it was so heavy. Sounds like your barrel is gonna really make your rifle heavy. I got lucky and this rifle is a shooter too. I was nervous though, the guy I bought it from told me "it was easy to hit a pie plate at 100 yds with it". LOL