Gunsmithing Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

sobrbiker883

sobrbiker883

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 18, 2003
7,112
207
Gilbert AZ
#1
So I've thought my 6.5CM was sitting crooked in it's stock due to a poor install of pillars in the stock. Looking back, it never really fit perfect in any stock.
It started life as a WalMart ADL donor 243 for $299.

Long story short, I liquidated the stock and am having a Manners T4A mini chassis built. So I drop it in my 308's A3 and it sits more crooked in that-WTF!?!

I put a couple 1/4-28 long bedding studs I have in the action holes and sighted down them and I'll be damned if they aren't in line with the left side of the muzzle instead of the center!!!


Is there any way to fix this without tearing the rifle down? It shoots lights out, and I'm not f'king around with big green on it.
 
#4
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting.

Can we see a pic? </div></div>

I'll try to get one later, gotta go finish my last night shift (woohoo!!). Hell, I'll bring it over....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if it shoots well, why bother? </div></div>
It didn't bother me before, but now that I'm switching over to a new MCS stock instead of its beater A3, I kind of want it to be straight.


I wonder if it could be done the same as scope bases-milled and tapped slightly oversize to correct...




 
#5
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

Ya, the threaded holes could be opened up and straightened on a CNC mill. Or, some kind of an offset insert could be made. Or, the holes in the stock could be drilled at an angle to match the receiver. The money involved for customization though might be better spent on one of the many good custom receivers out there.
 
#6
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

Action screws, in "classic" sense, shouldn't be touiching anywhere on the shank of the screw. If it was pillar bedded, you would need to open the pillars up. The function of the screws should be to hold the action TO the stock, the force of the round being transferred to the stock by the recoil lug acting with the rear tang.

I imagine that you bought the Manners chassis so that you wouldn't have to bed it. If the rifle shoots pretty good with the old stock, the bore is likely reasonably square with the lug/tang. I don't LIKE the idea of oversizing the action threads, but it would probably work OK, as would a TIG weld-up and remachine.

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions, myself. Me thinks some time in the lathe and mill, gathering a bit of data would be a good idea. Determine how much it is out and planning a fix, before actaully DOING anything.
 
#7
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

You say it "shoots lights out". Old saying goes "if it aint broke don't fix it". You will hear of plenty of fixes but if it IS a shooter, leave well enough alone. If it is broke, document it extensively and call Rem customer service and CRY, I mean CRRRYYYYY! You may be pleasantly surprised. Just my .02
 
#8
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

More aesthetic and just annoying now that I'm aware of it.

Not a plinker, and I'm sure big green won't warranty a trued action-only thing theirs is the action metal and bolt body (Bartlein 5R w/ <2k rounds through it).

Shoots alright, last time I shot paper:
65cm081111a.jpg

[size:20pt]


Maybe I'll just wait til I get the new stock. The chassis was intended to be a mule platform if needed. So if theres something not to crazy that could be done prior to the stock being done I was hoping to do it.
 
#9
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

If they are crooked, no way I'd leave it crooked. Should be fixed or replaced.

In my opinion just because a rifle shoots well here and now, doesn't mean it will there and then, in the future.


5/16x24 might work and seems to be the best choice off the top of my head. Unless there's a better metric size.
Obviously want a screw diameter just large enough to completely clean up the existing holes, and have the highest TPI possible(within reason). Or the closest TPI to 28.
 
#10
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

There is not much you can do without bastardizing it. Either call big green, live with it, trip it, or have a custom....custom. a weld and re tap is doable, but has its risks too. How happy will you be if the bottom of the action shrinks from the weld?
 
#11
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

No welding will be going on, don't know where everyone got on that kick...

If it can't be fixed with a slight oversize (like everyone dies with crooked scope base holes), its gonna live crooked.
 
#12
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

The front screw is too close to the lugs for welding IMO... among other reasons Im sure.


Opening it up to 5/16x24 or some metric size wouldn't be hard or a PITA I don't think.


But you couldn't really ever sell the action unless someone wanted that. Plus you'd have to make small modifications to your bottom metals and stock screw holes.


If it were mine Id call Remington and see if they'd help. I doubt they will since the rifle has been rebuilt.
If they say they wont help, I'd open the screw holes up I think and deal with it.

You could even brag about having stronger more tactical action screws
wink.gif



 
#13
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

Keith's seen it before, but here's how it sits in it's last stock:
crooked.jpg


I was just thinking of doing it now before I refinish the barreled action.

Maybe I'll give you a call tomorrow Keith, see if you'd be interested in taking a peek at it. I like the "tactical action screw" angle....
 
#14
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

I wanted to see a pic with the guide screws in it and it upside down, out of the stock, showing how crooked they are. And showing that its not just the scope base that is crooked(if you had it sittin on the base(not sayin you did))

Probably wont be up for it tomorrow. Had all four wisdom teeth removed today and not being able to eat much really drains me.
Hope they heal up quick.
 
#15
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

At work right now, I'll try to get you a pic tomorrow.

4 wisdoms extracted? You're gonna look like a chipmunk brother! Take care of yourself, we can look at this later...
 
#16
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

When the accuracy goes south in a couple thousand rounds, deal with the problem then. Even then, dollars to donuts, its due to a barrel issue, not the action screws. IMO, the only winning party by having it fixed now is the gunsmith's wallet. The gun clearly shoots well. If it also shoots good at distance, why monkey with it?
 
#20
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

To get it sitting straight in the stock is easy. Bore out the pillar holes 1/8" oversize, cut two new pillars to length, wrap a couple layers of plumbers teflon tape around those headless screws for clearance while epoxy cures, and epoxy the pillars back in the stock, with cardboard shims in the barrel channel to center the sucker. Hold action in stock with electrical tape while curing for stress-free bedding. Remove bedding screws, install original screws. Of course a magazine would complicate things, like welding up screw holes in floorplate ass'y and redrilling holes in the new places-is this single shot?
PS: Seems not really broke, just ugly. Pretty is as pretty does.
 
#21
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup. </div></div>

by your op, you compared the screws to the muzzle as you sighted down it. how do you know the barrel or the barrel threads in the receiver aren't the culprit?
 
#22
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

There's a proper way to check if they're crooked.
In a mill, with a perfectly square trammed head, running an indicator up and down the guide screws 360 degrees around each of the two to see if they're sticking straight up. Actions' raceway flats(where the bolt lugs ride) should be parallel/level with the mill table.

When I "level" an action to a mill table, I go off the raceway flats. Best thing to go off of in my opinion.... gotta pick somethin'.


While its set up in the same mill, IF theyre crooked, mill out the holes and tap them with whatever thread size you feel like using, using the mill to tap it so its straight/square.


Thats the way to check it. And thats the way to fix it.

In my opinion.


If you think they're crooked, pay someone to check it and fix it right.
 
#23
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

I agree Keith, and I'm going to just wait until the MCS gets done and in hand before I do anything more.
If it sits wacky enough that it seems to have stress going on when I install it in the Manners I'll give you a holler for a quote to measure it and recut if needed.

I appreciate the input others have given and here's knid of where I'm at on it:
-xs hs- I can bed it centered in anything, but it is mag fed.
-300sniper-If you can cut a crooked tenon that shoots half minute I'm definitely listening. Basically I've ruled out barrel being crooked because it it were clocked it would have pointed a different direction when PCR trimmed the shoulder and tenon to correct excessive headspace.
-treebasher-I think you're the closest, because the action was trued to the raceways, and the exterior is superfluous to that. The closest example I can think of is the example of scope base screw holes. I doubt if big green drills and taps either the base holes or action holes indicated to anything, I'll bet they are placed in fixtures that center stuff up off the exterior.
 
#24
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
-300sniper-If you can cut a crooked tenon that shoots half minute I'm definitely listening. Basically I've ruled out barrel being crooked because it it were clocked it would have pointed a different direction when PCR trimmed the shoulder and tenon to correct excessive headspace. </div></div>


did they re-cut your receiver threads? how was the receiver trued?

a crooked barrel will still shoot good as long as the chamber is cut good and concentric to the bore. you can still have good shoulder lock-up if the barrel was cut in one step and the receiver face is square to the threads, even if those threads are crooked in the receiver. true, your bolt face will not be square to the chamber but in my opinion, that wouldn't necessarily keep it from shooting 1/2" or better.

i'd get it into a vee-block style chassis like your mini chassis and see where the barrel points. if you are making good parallel contact between the receiver and the chassis and your screws aren't binding in the screw holes, i'd bet money the receiver threads are not parallel to the receiver od.

although someone that i highly respect uses the flats of the raceway to locate the scope holes, i personally disagree that it is the best practice. i think the action mounting holes are the best place. this is what is going to be bottom dead center when snugged into a vee-block chassis. that's where i'd want bottom of the receiver to be in a vee-block chassis or into a pillar bedded stock. the raceway is just along for the ride and doesn't mean much to me.


edit: by the way, i have purposely ended up with .030" of runout at the od of the muzzle just so i could have the chamber dead nuts aligned to the bore along it's length. i time my barrels so the muzzle points up, not off to the side though.
 
#25
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

Receiver was trued at V1.1 with V1.0 being bought new as an ADL 243 to get an R700 SA.

It is currently V1.3 (third barrel). Action was not touched by PCR, just the mating surfaces of the barrel after I found it to have had its chamber cut too deep by the guy that did the latest barrel. I believe Keith took off between .006-.008" which would (unless I have no clue) have an affect on which way the barrel pointed if it were the barrel.

The barrel was contoured by Bartlein, and they are pretty good at getting the outside close to the inside.

Mass production receiver slated for a WallyWorld Youth ADL is the weakest link in the iterations the rifle has been in, and I still feel that as often as they f'k up scope base holes, they can easily f'k up action screw holes.

If the action screw holes are not parallel with the centerline of the action's exterior it won't sit straight without a lot of stress. It has shot well when I have bedded it, but I am looking for a solution prior to dropping it in a chassis.

Jeez, all I was really looking to find out is if anyone has seen R700's with out of kilter action screw holes and if they can be fixed by setting up in a mill and recut.
 
#26
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

changing the barrel won't change anything if the receiver/barrel threads are not parallel with the receiver od. in reality, with the amount of room between the receiver screws and the pillars/holes in a chassis, the screws being off a bit should be insignificant.
 
#27
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

I've seen this before the most practical approach for me was to make a set of metric screws out of "American" shoulder bolts. This doesn't require "over-opening" the holes in the receiver and you maintain the "American" Allen head size in the screws.

All in all, a very simple fix.
 
#28
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

On the subject of the raceway/threads/lugs/face pointing in a different direction from the OD.....


Anyone ever run a mandrel through the receiver that screws into the threads, butting up against the lugs, running the raceway truely along "Z"(action having been trued already of course)


Then turn the OD down until its parallel with the raceway and square to the lugs and face?

In a sense, "truing" the OD.




We have two such mandrels; one threaded 1.062", and one 1.072"

The mandrels are for something else, but I've wondered about truing the OD of Remy receivers this way.
 
#29
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

Keith-I was thinking about that today, but on most actions you are then altering the SN's (potentially).....

Mike-that's what I was thinking of all along, I'm not going to do anything til I have my chassis in hand, then I'll revisit the topic.

Hopefully the question raised some questions
wink.gif
 
#30
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the subject of the raceway/threads/lugs/face pointing in a different direction from the OD.....


Anyone ever run a mandrel through the receiver that screws into the threads, butting up against the lugs, running the raceway truely along "Z"(action having been trued already of course)


Then turn the OD down until its parallel with the raceway and square to the lugs and face?

In a sense, "truing" the OD.




We have two such mandrels; one threaded 1.062", and one 1.072"

The mandrels are for something else, but I've wondered about truing the OD of Remy receivers this way. </div></div>

there is at least one builder (i think he's in another country) that grinds the od of the receiver true to the raceway.
 
#31
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith-I was thinking about that today, but on most actions <span style="font-weight: bold">you are then altering the SN's (potentially)</span>.....

Mike-that's what I was thinking of all along, I'm not going to do anything til I have my chassis in hand, then I'll revisit the topic.

Hopefully the question raised some questions
wink.gif
</div></div>

What are the rules about 'fixing', not changing, but cleaning up and deepening an existing S/N?

I had that done on a Savage Model 99 action by our engraving instructor at school?

Could that also be done legally here if truing removed or reduced the S/N depth below the minimum (.003 IIRC?)
 
#32
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the subject of the raceway/threads/lugs/face pointing in a different direction from the OD.....
Anyone ever run a mandrel through the receiver that screws into the threads, butting up against the lugs, running the raceway truely along "Z"(action having been trued already of course)
Then turn the OD down until its parallel with the raceway and square to the lugs and face?
In a sense, "truing" the OD.
</div></div>

I did that with a mauser, but on a vertical mill. Used the mandrel like you're speaking of, in a rotary head, indicated in. Trued both receiver rings (mostly to clean up some horrid turkish markings
wink.gif
), then made a base to fit. Turned out quite nicely, I think.
 
#33
Re: Crooked Remington action screws, fix?

I'm not as concerned about the crookedness as my post may sound, I just wanted to tap the peanut gallery to see if there was a quick and easy-ish fix while the rifle was out of service, and before I refinish it. If I get out the duracoat today, the entire point will be moot!
 
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