Both Chris and I have Barrel Tuners here, and we have been using them sparingly. Our question is, how are you using your barrel tuner and what have you found when using them ?
Precision Rifle Gear Crossfire Conversation: Barrel Tuner Question
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This is a conversation that I'm really interested in following.
I have a tuner brake combo, and have done my own testing with 5 shot groups with my 6BRA rifle with 28" Krieger HV barrel.
In my testing, I was not able to get a tuner to make my reloads shoot any better.
Personally, I have a hard time buying into the alleged merits of a tuner for "practical" shooting disciplines. However, I'm VERY interested in what you and Chris find through your testing. Ever since tuners made their way into our discipline, I've been fascinated in the conversation. However I've found the current evidence to date to support tuners for our uses, including my own testing, to be very uncompelling.
Looking forward to this discussion and what others, like yourself and Chris, are finding through your own testing.
I have a tuner brake combo, and have done my own testing with 5 shot groups with my 6BRA rifle with 28" Krieger HV barrel.
In my testing, I was not able to get a tuner to make my reloads shoot any better.
Personally, I have a hard time buying into the alleged merits of a tuner for "practical" shooting disciplines. However, I'm VERY interested in what you and Chris find through your testing. Ever since tuners made their way into our discipline, I've been fascinated in the conversation. However I've found the current evidence to date to support tuners for our uses, including my own testing, to be very uncompelling.
Looking forward to this discussion and what others, like yourself and Chris, are finding through your own testing.
Don’t have one and don’t use one. But, the way I look at them is this. If the gun is in a system the removes the shooter and you develop a load that way using the tuner it helps/works. But the minute you put a human behind it, I think the variances we introduce negate their benefits.
I make and sell tuners in AU. This is all based on my personal experience, and customer feedback / sponsored shooters in prsAU series.
There is no "one tuner" or combo for all rifle barrels. Long skinny hunting barrels, short fat stumpy barrels. I make small tuners for 1/2" muzzle threads, such as a factory CZ 457 rimfire up to XL for 1.25" straight bull barrels.
For factory stock rifles shooting factory ammo, tuners work amazingly. It WILL NOT make 2" groups into pin holes. However it will give the ability to tighten groups up.
Try a 10+ shot group. 20 makes it better. Your resultant group size will be smaller by a bit, say from 0.8moa to 0.6moa, and the main cluster of shots will be tighter, where as the non tuner 0.8moa will have more out liers rather than a cluster. More "evenly spread".
Hand loads do NOT benefit much, but can. Depending on quality of hand load obviously. There are a few factors, like seating depth and neck tension (which will ruin results).
If you hand load, develop your load with the tuner on. Do your load dev as normal. Once you have gotten it as best as you think you can (normal load dev), then play with tuner settings. It may improve a bit, or not at all depending on your quality of hand loads. You may need to revisit your load dev once you settle on a tuner setting.
Tuners coming loose is the worst. If you have a "locknut" threaded type, ensure your brake is locked against it properly. If you have one with grubscrews, just keep an eye on it, as i have seen these move from hitting baracades and in / out of rifle bags. If you are concerned, a layer or two of plumbers teflon tape, then brake on. Takes out any extra wiggle, if you feel you need it. Then lock grubscrews as normal.
The same weight tuner, one being big diameter and thin (think like a music CD), vs a long "same as barrel profile" will both tune, however do it differently. The variations you get per adjustment (click, or whatever the scale is) are different.
I got lots more if you need. Spent quite a bit of time playing with and developing them.
There is no "one tuner" or combo for all rifle barrels. Long skinny hunting barrels, short fat stumpy barrels. I make small tuners for 1/2" muzzle threads, such as a factory CZ 457 rimfire up to XL for 1.25" straight bull barrels.
For factory stock rifles shooting factory ammo, tuners work amazingly. It WILL NOT make 2" groups into pin holes. However it will give the ability to tighten groups up.
Try a 10+ shot group. 20 makes it better. Your resultant group size will be smaller by a bit, say from 0.8moa to 0.6moa, and the main cluster of shots will be tighter, where as the non tuner 0.8moa will have more out liers rather than a cluster. More "evenly spread".
Hand loads do NOT benefit much, but can. Depending on quality of hand load obviously. There are a few factors, like seating depth and neck tension (which will ruin results).
If you hand load, develop your load with the tuner on. Do your load dev as normal. Once you have gotten it as best as you think you can (normal load dev), then play with tuner settings. It may improve a bit, or not at all depending on your quality of hand loads. You may need to revisit your load dev once you settle on a tuner setting.
Tuners coming loose is the worst. If you have a "locknut" threaded type, ensure your brake is locked against it properly. If you have one with grubscrews, just keep an eye on it, as i have seen these move from hitting baracades and in / out of rifle bags. If you are concerned, a layer or two of plumbers teflon tape, then brake on. Takes out any extra wiggle, if you feel you need it. Then lock grubscrews as normal.
The same weight tuner, one being big diameter and thin (think like a music CD), vs a long "same as barrel profile" will both tune, however do it differently. The variations you get per adjustment (click, or whatever the scale is) are different.
I got lots more if you need. Spent quite a bit of time playing with and developing them.
The example I use in explaining a tuners benefit is this:
At one point, I had 2 different guns chambered in 6 dasher with the same reamer by the same GS. Gun 1 was a ARC Nucleus with a 27" MTU barrel and the other was my AI with a 26" heavy palma.
I had done initial load development on the Nuke and landed on a load that consistently shot in the .2s and .3s. I didnt want to have 2 different loads but wanted to be able to shoot the same ammo in both rifles. The groups were great in the Nuke but horrible in the AI. I threw the barrel tuner on the AI barrel and tuned it where the AI groups shot equally as well as the Nuke. If I removed the tuner, it would go back shooting 1". Install tuner to the setting I found, .2s- 3s.
Now.. I sold the Nuke so I only had 1 dasher. I took the tuner off, completed a seating depth test, and found that .020 further jump shot equal to the Nuke and the barrel tuner.
Now I use the barrel tuner for factory ammo that originally shot about .5 but now shoots .3s regularly.
A barrel tuner will not make a shit barrel shoot great but it can make a good barrel shoot better. It isnt a miracle maker but is a tool to help in certain ammo situations.
That is only my personal experience.
At one point, I had 2 different guns chambered in 6 dasher with the same reamer by the same GS. Gun 1 was a ARC Nucleus with a 27" MTU barrel and the other was my AI with a 26" heavy palma.
I had done initial load development on the Nuke and landed on a load that consistently shot in the .2s and .3s. I didnt want to have 2 different loads but wanted to be able to shoot the same ammo in both rifles. The groups were great in the Nuke but horrible in the AI. I threw the barrel tuner on the AI barrel and tuned it where the AI groups shot equally as well as the Nuke. If I removed the tuner, it would go back shooting 1". Install tuner to the setting I found, .2s- 3s.
Now.. I sold the Nuke so I only had 1 dasher. I took the tuner off, completed a seating depth test, and found that .020 further jump shot equal to the Nuke and the barrel tuner.
Now I use the barrel tuner for factory ammo that originally shot about .5 but now shoots .3s regularly.
A barrel tuner will not make a shit barrel shoot great but it can make a good barrel shoot better. It isnt a miracle maker but is a tool to help in certain ammo situations.
That is only my personal experience.
I've started experimenting using the tuner as a time saver/range trip saver for load development. Powder ladder to find charge weight/speed, then using the tuner in lieu of seating depth testing. I don't need to pre-load a bunch of different depths, and there's no third/fourth trip to re-load/re-verify a promising seating depth.
If I had a way to seat at the range, or my accuracy standards were higher, I would stick to traditional load tuning. But this seems to get me to an acceptable result, so I can get back to focusing on practice.
If I had a way to seat at the range, or my accuracy standards were higher, I would stick to traditional load tuning. But this seems to get me to an acceptable result, so I can get back to focusing on practice.
I have not tested this method of 2 guns woth identical chamber / reamer. I can do it, i dont have much time to do it in thr short term. Very interesting idea.
I initially was hoping they would just shoot the same load equally well without the tuner but the tuner made that happen.
In this photo you can see the tuner at work shooting 100y. Prior range session, i found a powder node that held tight vertical at 400y, but had some horizontal stringing at 30k seating depth. Its a bra with 105s at 2885fps. Horizontal stringing was still slightly under moa wide, its a br variant after all. I started at 0, 2, 4, 6, 8(8 was much larger, so skipped 3 notches) 11, 13, 15. When I shot setting 15, both went in same hole. I verified with 3 more, 5 shot group. Since this sessions, I have tested tuner setting 14,16 with similar resutls. Gun shoots under half moa at 600y, furthest I've on paper.
I have tuners on several rifles. I set the ats to zero. Install my supressor adaptee or brake. After proper barrel breakin, usually 100-150 rounds depending on cartridge case capacity. I then pick the powder/bullet I want to use. I like to seat bullets at 30k off as I've found that from 30-50k jump, velocity doesn't change much, go to 60k and pressure drops a bit, usually 15-20fps.
Now I load in 0.2gr to 0.5 increments depending on case capacity/powder burn rate(pairs of each charge) and ladder at 400-600y. You'll see charge weight nodes that give tight vertical(velocity node). Widest nodes are usually the lower two, the top node the smallest.
I now pick the speed i want to run corresponding with the powder charge nodes that held tight vertical.
After that I spin the tuner till I achieve 1 hole to 1/4moa groups. As long your ES is staying in the velocity nodes you observed in the ladder it'll shoot small.
I do all my reloading in this process, I substitute seating depth tuning for barrel tuner adjustments with a conventional setup.
I have tuners on several rifles. I set the ats to zero. Install my supressor adaptee or brake. After proper barrel breakin, usually 100-150 rounds depending on cartridge case capacity. I then pick the powder/bullet I want to use. I like to seat bullets at 30k off as I've found that from 30-50k jump, velocity doesn't change much, go to 60k and pressure drops a bit, usually 15-20fps.
Now I load in 0.2gr to 0.5 increments depending on case capacity/powder burn rate(pairs of each charge) and ladder at 400-600y. You'll see charge weight nodes that give tight vertical(velocity node). Widest nodes are usually the lower two, the top node the smallest.
I now pick the speed i want to run corresponding with the powder charge nodes that held tight vertical.
After that I spin the tuner till I achieve 1 hole to 1/4moa groups. As long your ES is staying in the velocity nodes you observed in the ladder it'll shoot small.
I do all my reloading in this process, I substitute seating depth tuning for barrel tuner adjustments with a conventional setup.
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We are both using Tuners and in our opinion, they work as advertised.
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