Custom Action Heavy Bolt Lift Without Trigger Installed

[HousePlant]

This is something I'm naive on as this is the first time I've put a rifle together and didn't have the trigger yet.

Should I expect a Rem700 action / custom Rem700 clone action's bolt lift to be very heavy without a trigger installed?

 

[Supersubes]

Trigger has nothing to do with bolt lift. Its totally out of play.

 

[Curahee19]

It’s gonna be heavier because the firing pin drops without a trigger installed

 

[HousePlant]

It’s gonna be heavier because the firing pin drops without a trigger installed

I effing hope this is the case because the bolt lift is heavier than a Savage Axis right now.

 

[Supersubes]

I effing hope this is the case because the bolt lift is heavier than a Savage Axis right now.

What he means is, after lifting the bolt once and cocking, it will be lighter afterwards, because you've already done the work. Heavy without a trigger, you have something else going on.

 

[ormandj]

This is something I'm naive on as this is the first time I've put a rifle together and didn't have the trigger yet.

Should I expect a Rem700 action / custom Rem700 clone action's bolt lift to be very heavy without a trigger installed?

What action is this, brand and model? I may be dense but can’t figure out if this is a custom action or gunsmith modified rem700 from your post.

Check the threads on the shroud and bolt for correctness and grease, also check the lugs for wear marks to see if they are appropriate. Check the cam for the same.

 

[Edds]

This is something I'm naive on as this is the first time I've put a rifle together and didn't have the trigger yet.

Should I expect a Rem700 action / custom Rem700 clone action's bolt lift to be very heavy without a trigger installed?

The trigger can change the feel of some of them depending on how the trigger slot in the receiver is shaped. Turn the action upside down and watch what the cocking piece does. You should be able to see if the reciever is interfering with the movement of the cocking piece.

 

[CMP70306]

Another thing to note, are you playing with the bare action or is it mounted in the stock?

 

[HOLLYW00D]

front action mounting screw contacting the bolt? bolt nose contacting barrel?

 

[308pirate]

Bolt action rifles are not ARs

 

[bravesirrobin]

Is it a 3-lug 60-degree bolt throw action? Those generally have heavier bolt lifts that 90-degree actions, but it should still be lighter than a Savage.

 

[HousePlant]

Is it a 3-lug 60-degree bolt throw action? Those generally have heavier bolt lifts that 90-degree actions, but it should still be lighter than a Savage.

It's a 90* because I want the lightest bolt lift possible. Trigger is coming in the mail FINALLY so I'll see if it makes a difference. In the mean time, the manufacturer is going to take a look at the bolt so that's getting mailed to them today. Manufacturer has been incredible.

 

[HousePlant]

front action mounting screw contacting the bolt? bolt nose contacting barrel?

Action screw: no.
Bolt nose: no evidence of that.

 

[HousePlant]

Another thing to note, are you playing with the bare action or is it mounted in the stock?

It is mounted in an XRS Envy Pro.

 

[HousePlant]

I realize this is one of those "well who is it" posts. I am just asking "in general" and not trying to come across as I'm trying to throw XYZ action under the bus. My negative experience so far is mixed with some naivety as I've never slapped together a rifle to test without having the trigger at the same time so I never knew the trigger not being there could affect bolt lift weight.

The manufacturer is going to inspect my action -- without even a modicum of hesitation they're having me overnight it to them at their expense.

If there's nothing wrong with it and the trigger is installed and I still am not happy, well... lesson learned, not the action for me. Oh well...

I mean... I suppose it could be the barrel but the action is heavy without a barrel in it, too.

 

[BND2763]

I’ve noticed a heavier bolt lift prior to trigger install before. I’d give it a chance before panic.

 

[Terry Cross]

Presence of a trigger can have a large bearing on bolt lift on some actions.

The bottom of the cocking piece is usually controlled on the long axis by the trigger housing.
Bottom lug of the cocking piece extends downward into the trigger housing slightly so the trigger limits the rotation of the firing pin assembly so the cocking cam can do its job when the bolt is lifted to "cock" the striker into the rearward position.

Without a trigger in place, the bottom flats of the bolt shroud contacting the flats on the bottom/rear of the bolt raceways are the only thing keeping the rear of the bolt from rotating while the rest of the bolt rotates and that is very sloppy compared to the proper rotational control that the trigger housing provides on an assembled rifle.

So some actions have a trigger sear access cut that is the same width as the inside of the trigger housing. These typically mimic the same bolt lift with and without a trigger installed.

Other actions have a trigger sear access cut that is considerably wider than the inside of the trigger housing. These will bind the fuck out of the cocking piece when it starts to cam back with no trigger support and exhibit a very stiff bolt lift.

./

 

[Adam B]

Trigger has nothing to do with bolt lift. Its totally out of play.

edit-pretty much what Terry said ^^^^^

not necessarily true, some cock on bolt lift and that will increase the amount of force it would take with the trigger in it.

 

[Supersubes]

edit-pretty much what Terry said ^^^^^

not necessarily true, some cock on bolt lift and that will increase the amount of force it would take with the trigger in it.

All rem pattern cock on bolt lift. Every one, and with no trigger installed, every time the bolt is lifted. ARC had a 50/50 action at one point, which significantly lessened lift, but they abandoned it. The trigger simply holds the striker back upon closing the bolt. Terry brings up a perfectly valid points, but ive never seen a custom trigger-less rem pattern action go from POS to glass, with a trigger install.

 

[Matt_3479]

All rem pattern cock on bolt lift. Every one, and with no trigger installed, every time the bolt is lifted. ARC had a 50/50 action at one point, which significantly lessened lift, but they abandoned it. The trigger simply holds the striker back upon closing the bolt. Terry brings up a perfectly valid points, but ive never seen a custom trigger-less rem pattern action go from POS to glass, with a trigger install.

Well not POS to glass, my kelbly felt noticeably different with the trigger installed vs out of it. I remember thinking I thought the bolt lift would be nicer. After installing trigger it’s one of the best bolt lifts I’ve ever felt!

 

[b6graham]

i absolutely would NOT send it back until i had a trigger installed.

my zermatt/ARC actions certainly feel very very different without a trigger installed

 

[HousePlant]

i absolutely would NOT send it back until i had a trigger installed.

my zermatt/ARC actions certainly feel very very different without a trigger installed

Well, it's having an inconsistent ejection issue as well so I'm sending it in mostly for that.

And good news, my trigger is FINALLY in the mail. YUS!

 

[Adam B]

All rem pattern cock on bolt lift. Every one, and with no trigger installed, every time the bolt is lifted. ARC had a 50/50 action at one point, which significantly lessened lift, but they abandoned it. The trigger simply holds the striker back upon closing the bolt. Terry brings up a perfectly valid points, but ive never seen a custom trigger-less rem pattern action go from POS to glass, with a trigger install.

Nope, I know for fact the cadex doesn’t

 

[Supersubes]

Nope, I know for fact the cadex doesn’t

I’ll come your way some. Not all, but 95% of rem pattern actions cock on open. You said “some” do. The R7 is a a 4 lug 50 deg throw, rem footprint sure, not exactly rem pattern.

 

[ormandj]

What action is this, brand and model? I may be dense but can’t figure out if this is a custom action or gunsmith modified rem700 from your post.

Check the threads on the shroud and bolt for correctness and grease, also check the lugs for wear marks to see if they are appropriate. Check the cam for the same.

Well, it's having an inconsistent ejection issue as well so I'm sending it in mostly for that.

And good news, my trigger is FINALLY in the mail. YUS!

Did you check the things I mentioned? Those areas can show obvious causes of your problem. Obviously you're sending it in, but those are some easy things to check in a few minutes if you are curious.

 

[DocRDS]

Edit: NVM. There is this thing called oil and lube. Does wonders. Also TY to @Terry Cross for your pictures and explanation above about how the cocking works in the action. Removed the trigger--still had problem. Apparently my bolt was raw dawgging it. That's why its my "experimental" gun--if I screw it up, I wont beat myself up.

Now about that DAMN BOLT STOP SPRING!