CZ Bren 3
- Thread starter Ichi
- Start date
Looks really good, wish FN would put 1/4 the effort into modernizing the scar.
I have a 11” Bren 2 that I run suppressed and I really enjoy it. With that being said it needed an HBI extended hand guard and the gas regulator needed drilled for a suppressor setting. Everything else about it is nice.
I have 11.5” AR’s as well and usually grab the Bren for the cool factor and it shoots good.
I have 11.5” AR’s as well and usually grab the Bren for the cool factor and it shoots good.
Who cares. Not everyone is into looks for Instagram cred.
I don't, the lower design is solid, and there are several aftermarket lowers around that allow use of alternative parts if you're so inclined depending on caliber.
the fact the Bren 3 uses the same lower as the Bren 2 means that it'll be a kickass platform for 7.62x39 with the Lingle Industries lower for using proper AK mags instead of CZ proprietary or AR types.
Im prolly missing something here, but in the video they said only gonna release the 3 in 5.56 and 7.62x39 hipster, I mean .300 BO.
is there an aftermarket manufacturer for x39 barrels?
The video just showed the 5.56 and 300blk versions, the Czech military also uses the bren in 7.62x39 in certain applications (so do the GIGN, go figure) so I expect that they would make it in 7.62x39 to offer to those existing end users.
There's also a lower made by a different company (don't have the link on my phone) that is a straight aluminum replacement that is still a stanag magwell but allows AR triggers and grips.
Tempting, my MCX has been a total shit show accuracy wise and dealing with Sig with their 4 MOA accuracy standard is a joke. I can't see giving Sig another $800 to play barrel lottery when clearly they don't even think their stuff is any better. I get that it's not a precision rig, but in 2024 4 MOA is pathetic. I've had several JP 5.56 barrels that never went anywhere near 2 MOA with good loads and cost significantly less.
CZ was never really on my radar until the last few years but after having a 457, Shadow 2, and TS2 for awhile their quality punches way above their price tag.
CZ was never really on my radar until the last few years but after having a 457, Shadow 2, and TS2 for awhile their quality punches way above their price tag.
Yeah, it seems like cz is really nailing alot of stuff in the past couple years. I think if they can platform support on the civi side, the bren 3 is a no brainer for something different.
Barrels, bolts and stocks really need to be available from day one.
I like sig, but your experience with sig is not exactly rare.
Yeah even their MPX, mine runs okay, but it's nothing special and it's finicky while most scorpion's cost half as much and run twice as reliably and often from the examples I've seen more accurately. The MPX is a better gamer gun cause it shoots a bit softer and there's way more aftermarket support for it gamer wise, but most of the guys with MPX's I know echo the same things, almost every one of them has had some sort of issue(s) with them. Heck it took Gieselle 3 years to try and make a trigger durable enough for it because Sig's bolt speed is so ridiculous, and in the end the only way they could get it done was to include 35,45, 55% heavier recoil springs with the trigger to try and reduce the beating it takes and they still recommend you use the heaviest spring you can. Sig makes very attractive designs, great marketing hype, but their execution in general function seems suspect in most of their recent designs. MCX/MPX's have crazy high bolt speed and eat triggers, MCX has a LOT of posts about accuracy issues, the P365 had firing pin and recoil spring issues, the P210 had recoil spring problems, The original 320 X-five recoil spring was so poorly selected that the same spring not only didn't provide enough tension to reliably go into battery, but it's rising rate was so high unless you ran hot loads it wouldn't cycle fully. These are not really quality control issues, they speak to fundamentally executing what it takes to make a firearm function well. If there's 500 other AR designs out there that don't require special triggers to keep from destroying them, if you design does, the trigger isn't the problem, your design is.
The guys with Scorpions not that they don't have issues but seems way less, and they don't make good gamer guns. Almost every MPX owner I know has stories of dealing with function issues.
I was really interested in their CZ 600 until they caved into the liability lawyers and changed it so you have to send it into the factory to do a caliber conversion or swap barrels and it appears they won't sell bolts/barrels to do conversion either. They did offer a lifetime barrel warranty so that was interesting, but I doubt many are putting enough rounds through many of them to shoot them out.
The guys with Scorpions not that they don't have issues but seems way less, and they don't make good gamer guns. Almost every MPX owner I know has stories of dealing with function issues.
I was really interested in their CZ 600 until they caved into the liability lawyers and changed it so you have to send it into the factory to do a caliber conversion or swap barrels and it appears they won't sell bolts/barrels to do conversion either. They did offer a lifetime barrel warranty so that was interesting, but I doubt many are putting enough rounds through many of them to shoot them out.
as much as I enjoyed the scorpion, the out of battery detonation potential because of the design and wear on the firing pin block, plus the large reciprocating mass makes it something I just can’t stick with. I’d take a modernized MP5/K over either a Scorpion or an MPX, even with losing the last round hold open. The stribog and B&T have the same issues as the scorpion of being extremely heavy reciprocating masses. B&T tried to solve that issue with the hydraulic buffer in the new models, but it has problems in cold weather.
Yeah it's like the scar/hk-91, there's a trade off of using high reciprocating mass in the bolt/carrier. I assume they do it for cycling reliability. Totally agree though the MP5 is a joy to shoot. The MPX will also gas you out with many suppressors, a lot of guys run a .45 unit to try and help. I've even seen guys "bed" the rear charging handle area to try and limit the gas the pours out of it.
Out of battery detonations seems like something that's becoming more and more commonly reported across various platforms. Seems like every time it is, the manufacturer just says it's impossible with their design and blames the ammo, and a lot of the reports are with factory ammo, not that a bad factory round can't slip by, but it seems suspect to me that all of them are extremely overpressure factory loads.
I'd also say that I've seen that newer firearms often need parts replaced at lower round counts than a couple decades ago. No idea why but it would not surprise me if it's cost cutting on part quality and fit/finish to reduce wear. I'd imagine a ton of gun owners never put 5000 rounds through a gun to see significant wear anyway so the cost of warranty etc. on those that do, is likely cheaper than building them all to a higher standard.
Out of battery detonations seems like something that's becoming more and more commonly reported across various platforms. Seems like every time it is, the manufacturer just says it's impossible with their design and blames the ammo, and a lot of the reports are with factory ammo, not that a bad factory round can't slip by, but it seems suspect to me that all of them are extremely overpressure factory loads.
I'd also say that I've seen that newer firearms often need parts replaced at lower round counts than a couple decades ago. No idea why but it would not surprise me if it's cost cutting on part quality and fit/finish to reduce wear. I'd imagine a ton of gun owners never put 5000 rounds through a gun to see significant wear anyway so the cost of warranty etc. on those that do, is likely cheaper than building them all to a higher standard.
it’s actually more to do with most of the commonly available firearms not having out of battery safeties, and people being more comfortable changing parts without considering how it affects operation, combined with people being more lax about cleaning parts that aren’t the barrel, leading to sticky firing pin channels, etc. The scorpion is a unique case where the changes made for US import were poorly designed.
one example is people using extended and heavyweight firing pins in ARs and then using soft primer ammunition instead of hard primer ammunition, without thought to the out of battery condition. Or using lightweight parts to increase bolt velocity and then not cleaning sufficiently, resulting in stuck pins.
Agree for the most part.
Sig seems to have good ideas and egineer but poor execution.
CZ seems to have good ideas and engineering as well, but gets caught up in the typical euro gun manufacture mindset that that gun is fine. No need for spare parts
That is very true, parts for CZ's can be difficult, I've had issues sourcing parts for my TS 2 in the past, and it's not limited to them Sako is another one that's hard/impossible to get parts for, and Beretta is a shit show to deal with. It also can be hard or a long wait to snag parts for the 457's.
On the flip side Sig is not without it's problems for parts. You can usually get parts from them, but the parts are priced as unobtainium. $300 for a bolt carrier, $200 for the bolt, $300 for the recoil spring assembly, $800 for a barrel, $550 for a stripped upper. There's also the problem that Sig changes their designs so frequently that multiple times I've had them send me the wrong generation of part for an MPX even using the SN etc. Also in the past I've had Sig refuse to sell some parts that I'd consider good things to have on hand as spares like extractors, ejectors, firing pins, etc. For some reason they seem to be more protective of the MPX than MCX parts. The answer I was given is they refuse to sell them and if you have a failure they will replace them but only if you return the entire gun. A lot of guys I know that run them in comps simply bought 2, the second as a "parts gun". At least before ILWT came on the scene.
On the flip side Sig is not without it's problems for parts. You can usually get parts from them, but the parts are priced as unobtainium. $300 for a bolt carrier, $200 for the bolt, $300 for the recoil spring assembly, $800 for a barrel, $550 for a stripped upper. There's also the problem that Sig changes their designs so frequently that multiple times I've had them send me the wrong generation of part for an MPX even using the SN etc. Also in the past I've had Sig refuse to sell some parts that I'd consider good things to have on hand as spares like extractors, ejectors, firing pins, etc. For some reason they seem to be more protective of the MPX than MCX parts. The answer I was given is they refuse to sell them and if you have a failure they will replace them but only if you return the entire gun. A lot of guys I know that run them in comps simply bought 2, the second as a "parts gun". At least before ILWT came on the scene.
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