Dang, I don’t need another pistol, but that’s never stopped me before.
Sidearms & Scatterguns CZ S2 Compact
- Thread starter CK1.0
- Start date
I have two Shadow 2s but for carry, prefer p07. No firing pin block is a no go for me to carry. This could be enough to get CZ fans like myself to shoot IDPA (gasp!)
Now for an accushadow version with the bull barrel, and throw a real safety lever on it while you're at it.
Speaking of not having a safety that blocks the firing pin.
Is this actually an issue or is this a perceived issue?
Like, can people actually find instances of this getting someone killed, in numbers much larger than normal "operating while drunk or stupid" type shit or is this actually not something to worry about that's made a bigger issue by safety babies?
Speaking of not having a safety that blocks the firing pin.
Is this actually an issue or is this a perceived issue?
Like, can people actually find instances of this getting someone killed, in numbers much larger than normal "operating while drunk or stupid" type shit or is this actually not something to worry about that's made a bigger issue by safety babies?
My opinion is that even without the pin block - it's still going to be safer than a striker fire.
This is kind of a tomato vs tomato sort of thing… depends on how you look at it.
Having owned both types, I don’t think the bushing and bull barrel with the Accu-Shadows means dick really. YMMV.
But having carried a Glock every day for many years and having dropped it more times than I’d like to admit, I kind of feel like a carry gun needs a firing pin block. If you were to drop a Shadow on its hammer you very well could end up leaking if you aren’t lucky.
I love that CZ came out with this “compact”. But IMHO, $1400 for an every day day carry is a bit much for me. The gun will be holstered most of it’s life and will probably wind up with lots of holster wear. Don’t get me wrong, I’m quite the CZ fan boy. I can see buying the compact if you don’t already have a Shadow 2 OR.
Looks like they put a reinforced 1/4 cock in there. Almost like the “decock” position in the omega triggers.
I sure hope you’re shooting your carry guns and not just hanging in a holster lol. Not sure what holster wear has to do with the cost of the gun.
The compact has an aluminum frame and is ~30oz. If all the features are the same as the full size but it’s a pound lighter and smaller overall, it sounds like a badass carry piece.
Ya my M&P was $500 but how many people do we know that have another $500-$1000 in their carry gun in triggers, framework, milling, stippling etc.
The switch from steel frame to aluminum saved 10oz. - which would put it closer to the P-07 weight - while still shooting and feeling like the P-01 with all the Custom CZ love done to it.
Sadly, while cool looking and all, this thing is really kind of a knuckleheaded idea.
I think shrinking the design and then leaving the FPB out of the design was kind of a big miss (and I'm honestly surprised their lawyers even let them suggest it for a carry role). I'm not even that creeped out about carrying one hammer down on an inertial firing pin, but I can and do drop shit from time to time, and don't like the idea of putting that much trust in some 3 cent firing-pin spring.
It almost seems like someone in some Czech boardroom who doesn't know too much about guns, or carrying guns, probably thought this would be a hit.
For any kind of real carry role, an optics-ready P-01 with a Shadow hammer is really the gun most CZ-fans are waiting for (IMO).
Maybe a decocker/FPB model will see the light of day eventually..?
I think shrinking the design and then leaving the FPB out of the design was kind of a big miss (and I'm honestly surprised their lawyers even let them suggest it for a carry role). I'm not even that creeped out about carrying one hammer down on an inertial firing pin, but I can and do drop shit from time to time, and don't like the idea of putting that much trust in some 3 cent firing-pin spring.
It almost seems like someone in some Czech boardroom who doesn't know too much about guns, or carrying guns, probably thought this would be a hit.
For any kind of real carry role, an optics-ready P-01 with a Shadow hammer is really the gun most CZ-fans are waiting for (IMO).
Maybe a decocker/FPB model will see the light of day eventually..?
Maybe a slightly stronger firing pin spring?
Is there any data or legitimate cases where dropping the gun set the gun off solely from the inertia on a standard firing pin spring? This would be excluding cases where the hammer was activated or all the way forward.
Agree. This pistol is dumb beyond belief.
Too light to be useful in competition. Borderline too heavy for comfortable carry. Lack of expected safety features.
All that engineering time should have been spent fixing the horrible DA stacking that comes standard with the Omega trigger and integrating the excellent OEM optic plate system into the P-07 and P-09 slides.
IDK..?
Part of me thinks "what's the big deal?"... With the hammer fully down it's resting on the slide and isn't going anywhere... rationally, and based on what's been tested, you'd literally need to drop the pistol from a height of 8-10ft, off a ladder onto its nose for it to go off...
...still seems creepy lol.
I'm pretty sure the hammer on the 75s (including all generations of the Shadow) rests on the firing pin when all the way down
Yes, you're correct, but the firing pin isn't long enough to protrude past the breech face... unless someone adds an extended firing pin and/or reduced power firing pin spring (like lots of guys who compete do in their match guns, me included sometimes). With the hammer fully down on most stock CZs means the firing pin is pushed/recessed below the back of the slide, but not pushed far enough forward to contact a primer without enough help (enough help to overcome the strength of the firing pin spring and then some).
Sadly, it's more of a baby match gun abomination than do-it-all Goldilocks.
Has anyone actually managed to make one of these Shadow 2 or modern CZ 75 pistols in original factory configuration, go off by dropping it from 6ft or less?
(Beating it repeatedly with a big hammer is NOT the same as dropping)
Most folks carrying this would be carrying it with the hammer decocked (or some really crazy folks might carry it cocked with the safety on).
I think some folks are over hyping near impossible chances to make their case about it not being as good as the Glocks they are in love with.
(Beating it repeatedly with a big hammer is NOT the same as dropping)
Most folks carrying this would be carrying it with the hammer decocked (or some really crazy folks might carry it cocked with the safety on).
I think some folks are over hyping near impossible chances to make their case about it not being as good as the Glocks they are in love with.
You probably should know that I'm a huge cz fan, and I think this gun is dumb.
Drop safe or not the lack of a decocker makes it a no go for use outside the range.
Until I learned how to do it correctly AND practiced it enough I did have several NDs while deocking my Shadow 2. The only reason nobody got hurt is because i was following the other three universsal rules.
That level of risk is unacceptable outside of a range environment and a decocker is the only acceptable solution.
And I’m seeing another handgun to buy.
My P-01 is my favorite at the moment.
That could change…. Or it might just another handgun to clean occasionally. I won’t know until the S2 Compact has a few hundred rounds sent down range.
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I think the issue with this gun is that it's kind of a bummer let down. Anyone who's into cool pistols and who eventually gets into CZs would love to have a "baby Shadow" to tote around... as long as a couple of changes were made to make it better suited for the role (like FPB and decocker).
CZ said, nah, fuck it, let's just make it smaller and give it an alloy frame so it's lighter ...ignoring the changes needed to make it suitable for a carry role and making a smaller/lighter competition gun that nobody who really competes wants/needs.
Sending off a P-01 to be cut for an RMR, then adding a competition hammer and shortening/tuning the reset CZC/Cajun-style is kind of a PITA... I was kind of hoping this was that, just "off the rack".
CZ said, nah, fuck it, let's just make it smaller and give it an alloy frame so it's lighter ...ignoring the changes needed to make it suitable for a carry role and making a smaller/lighter competition gun that nobody who really competes wants/needs.
Sending off a P-01 to be cut for an RMR, then adding a competition hammer and shortening/tuning the reset CZC/Cajun-style is kind of a PITA... I was kind of hoping this was that, just "off the rack".
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See that makes sense and is a very valid concern.
It's something I'd be worried about as well.
Decockers seem to be something not very popular outside of some specific models.
I personally like them.
I really liked the H&K system of having both a decocker and a safety.
A lot of old school SIG pistols had decockers.
The CZ Omega system can be setup with a decocker often setup that way by default.
I wonder if CZ will ever decide to make a decocker version of the S2C?
There is a mistaken belief in CZ circles that a decocker gets in the way of having the best trigger pull possible.
CZ decockers, both the traditional BD and the Omega, do not interact with anything in the fire control group until it is depressed by the shooter.
The mistaken association comes from the fact that all deocker equipped CZs also have a firing pin block. The firing pin block requires more trigger bar movement forward to reset itself compared to the same pistol without a FPB.
People who don't understand this read the comment about decockers and trigger tuning and repeat it as if it were fact because they read it on the internet.
I simply will not carry a da/sa pistol without a decocker and I MUCH prefer those that function only as a decocker such as that in CZs, SIGs, Beretta G models, and Hk V3 trigger groups. Anything that can act as a safety like the decocker in S&W 3rd Gens, Beretta F models, and some HKs are a no go for me.
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It's trying to be a carry gun, but it's overweight and it lacks a firing pin safety. 100 years ago this would be a sweet gun - now it's an out of date design that doesn't do anything well.
The point of the Shadow is to enjoy a trigger that is as good as CZ can put out on production scale. It isn't the hand-worked Orange series gun, but Shadows are pretty nice. With CZ's firing pin block system, and any other that I'm aware of, there is a sacrifice made in the trigger pull. Shadow triggers and FPB triggers are mutually exclusive concepts, so if you want a FPB, you can't have a Shadow. In other words you could say that this gun kind of already exists in FPB form in the P-01.
There are thousands upon thousands of bathroom floors that are thankful for firing pin blocks. Has anyone here carried daily and never dropped their carry gun? I like FPB's, I like polymer guns in my waistband, and I like full capacity magazines. This checks one of those boxes.
The point of the Shadow is to enjoy a trigger that is as good as CZ can put out on production scale. It isn't the hand-worked Orange series gun, but Shadows are pretty nice. With CZ's firing pin block system, and any other that I'm aware of, there is a sacrifice made in the trigger pull. Shadow triggers and FPB triggers are mutually exclusive concepts, so if you want a FPB, you can't have a Shadow. In other words you could say that this gun kind of already exists in FPB form in the P-01.
There are thousands upon thousands of bathroom floors that are thankful for firing pin blocks. Has anyone here carried daily and never dropped their carry gun? I like FPB's, I like polymer guns in my waistband, and I like full capacity magazines. This checks one of those boxes.
Fixing the omega triggers and having optics ready P-07/09 would absolutely be a legit change.
It’d be nice to see an optics ready P01 too, although mine is already milled but still lol. My CGW pro package P01 omega trigger has less pull weight than my S2 but god it just feels horrible compared to the S2.
Or just not done at all.
The time and money spent on this by CZ should have been spent modernizing the P-01, P-07, and P-09 with optic ready slides and refining the DA stroke on the Omega trigger.
By the way it's "could've been" or in long form "could have been"
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Old thread - kinda surprised to see y'all crap on this.
I have an itch for a steel frame 19(/20)11 that actually works, and don't want to spend 2k.
This seems perfectly comparable, plus I could shoot carry optics with it.
Why not just carry it cocked and locked like a 1911, and consider the DA pull a bonus for dry fire practice?
I assume all the folks that shoot it's big brother in carry optics never touch the safety, hence the decocker concerns.
I don't really know how folks run these manual safety da/sa guns as I've never had one.
I have an itch for a steel frame 19(/20)11 that actually works, and don't want to spend 2k.
This seems perfectly comparable, plus I could shoot carry optics with it.
Why not just carry it cocked and locked like a 1911, and consider the DA pull a bonus for dry fire practice?
I assume all the folks that shoot it's big brother in carry optics never touch the safety, hence the decocker concerns.
I don't really know how folks run these manual safety da/sa guns as I've never had one.
The shadow 2 and the S2 compact are excellent pistols.
That being said, you can get any number of CZ 75 variant frames that support the operation system you wish, many of them pretty cheap.
If you don't want optics, on the cheap ones, spend the $500 to send them to Cajun Gun Works and your $600 pistol will probably be as nice as the $1400 factory ones or nicer.
If you want optics, then the S2 becomes a nice option since it already comes optics ready.
The Shadow 2 Compact has an aluminum frame
You can. Some of us will not carry a pistol that needs something done to it before the trigger can be pressed
I shot a whole season of USPSA Carry Optics with a S2 and never touched the safety because DA/SA pistols have to start in double action in USPSA Carry Optics. The lack of a decocker is no concern either. There is a very simple and foolproof way to lower the hammer without a decocker.
These are selective DA/SA pistols so you can carry it either way unless a sport's particular rules dictates one.
In any case I'm pretty sure I'm done with the Shadow 2 as a competition pistol and am going back to polymer (P-10F to be exact) for several reasons.
Right, right, but ~30 ounces is roughly inline with steel commanders, weight wise. It weighs about what a steel frame staccato c2 would weigh, if that existed.
So no love for the p07 to mirror your shadow comp gun?
Gotcha.
No. The Omega trigger system sucks ass and it's extremely difficult to get an acceptable DA stroke out of it. I've had three Omega CZs (two P-07s and one P-09). Only on the P-09 have I been able to get a shootable DA trigger.
For me the P-10 series is the ultimate CZ. I make my decisions based on performance, not appearance price or feel.
What do you think of the CZ P-09 Suppressor-Ready?
I got one and was pretty impressed with how it did out of the box.
Suppressor ready or not, would not buy again. Too much effort to make it shootable to my liking. I'd rather buy an SP-01. Or better yet another P-10F
Because the P-10 has a better trigger, better OEM sights, a better optic mounting system, and a better grip shape.
I just finished reviewing a freakin’ stack of Cajun and Ghost Gun receipts.....
It’s just too bad I couldn’t get what I wanted from the beginning.
The P10F looks nice, but I'm just not comfortable with a striker pistol without a safety.
So this is a Rami, without a decocker and/or a firing pin block, with a light rail and optics ready. Or am I missing something?
Rami is shorter I think.
Rami was smaller “sub compact”
The Shadow 2 compact will have a much better factory trigger, larger magazines, and cut for an optic.
The rami struggled with its weight, size, and mag capacity for a “sub compact”
That's a reflection of your skills not of the pistol.
What on earth are you afraid of anyway?
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It is not
The P-10 is shootable right from the box. The minor tuning I've done to my -10F USPSA gun is really subtle.
- Flat HBI trigger blade
- HBI -10% striker spring
- CGW 14.5 lb recoil spring
Both are Optics Ready models. The F has a C-More RTS2 and the C has a Trijicon RMR.
The P-10S is such a superior replacement
Because physics and chance and all that stuff.
I've seen a few too many folks on video having bad oops things when some unexpected failure of holster, clothing, debris, sear malfunction, and a host of other things that never seem likely just happen to cause things to go bang at the wrong time.
Including the supposed well trained professionals and well trained and practiced competition shooters and such.
Also manual safety much like stick shift in a car, is something most don't expect and in the event something happens and someone gets your gun who shouldn't have it, that may prevent them from using it. (of course, that could also get you killed if you don't practice with it).
Also if you are often in close physical contact with people or around kids or such.
In my life of not being a uniform hanger and not going into dangerous places but almost always carrying, the chances of the safety being any disadvantage to me is very small or a DA/SA pistol having a longer pull of the trigger isn't really an issue. But some crazy stack of events / tolerances making a thing go bang when it shouldn't could really ruin life for me in a big way.
A DA/SA pistol for example that is decocked and has a manual safety turned on is pretty much well nigh impossible to go off accidentally even if a whole bunch of things go wrong and it's bouncing down the stairs or a pile of rocks or such.
DA/SA decocked no safety is the next step down.
A manual safety striker fired pistol is a further step down
A striker fired pistol with no safety is the least amount of tolerance for error before going off.
Also you can train all you want, but it's never going to be the exact same as when your body and brain goes into overdrive when you feel your life is being directly threatened and sometimes fine motor skills on a perfect grip or such during a draw might be an issue.
I'm plenty well practiced and can easily shoot everything from Glocks to my DA/SA manual safety pistols.
I just personally feel safer with at least one extra level of protection than simply the trigger.
Now I fully realize that I'm in the minority these days and all the cool folks are all preaching striker fire no safety as the one and only truth.
Please send me links. I'd like to see. Because I fear I might be next after thousands of times holstering a loaded striker pistol without incident
You probably shouldn't have a gun if you can't control it 100% of the time
WTF? Are you letting people fondle your pistol through your clothes?
This is utter nonsense
How many gunfights have you been in? Cause I know people who actually have been in more than one and they've told me they've done complex tasks like reloading a rifle in the middle of a fight without being consciously aware of it. Because of training @Gustav7
I understand and that you don't agree with my opinions on the matter.
There are these things called search engines if you can't remember things on your own or haven't run across them yet...
I am not saying in any way that your viewpoint is wrong. My viewpoint is probably not entirely wrong either.
To each their own and that's why there is a wide variety of options available to suit everyone.
I'm simply stating what my comfort level is and why it is that way for me personally.
You have your own comfort level and your own perfectly valid reasons for liking it.
