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dangerous load?? yes or no?

aoerding

aoerding

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Minuteman
Feb 23, 2010
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#1
I hope this isn't a lame question but here we go:
Just finished loading 11 rounds for a ladder test im performing on my 700p in .300wm. I am using Nosler 168gn custom competition bullets, Hodgdon 1000 powder, wolf lrm primers, and fed cases.
Hodgdons website says my min charge is 79.0gn to a max 84.0gn.
My question is a few of the rounds are very compressed (bullet touching powder firmly when seated). Im sure the info i attained is safe from hodgdon, but for some reason this doesn't seem right and am very concerned about it..any suggestions?
 
#2
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

Compressed loads are usually fine, but obviously be careful as you work your way up. You're going about it the right way. The guy that starts at the top is usually the one you read about having a stuck bolt or worse. Every rifle is a bit different as to seating depth, powder charge, etc.
 
#3
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

Even though most handloading/reloading instruction manuals warn about the dangers of compressed loads, it is very common for loading data to result in the propellant being compressed. In fact, if you look at many max charges you will see a + next to the load, that means it is compressed. I'm "NOT" saying that what you are observing is safe/correct, just that it is not uncommon to have a slightly compressed recipe. If it doesn't look right.......at least triple check everything.
 
#4
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

There is nothing wrong with compressed load as long as it falls within the recommendation of the manual. My 308, and 243 loads are compressed.
 
#6
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

3.340"...i also heard a clicking noise as i was seating those last few, i chamfer and deburr my cases well and i believe the noise was the bullet packing the powder down tight..normal?
iv reloaded tons of .223 and couple hundred .300mag rounds and never had that tight of a fit between the bullet and powder.
 
#7
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

The compressed loads are ok, as long as they are not overly compressed. Take 5 cases of the most compressed load, and measure the COAL and write down each length. Come back the next day and measure each one again. If they grow in length, then you are overly compressed.
Also, H1000 is a great powder, but it's not the best powder for your 168 bullet. IMR4350 will yield higher velocities, and should give you great groups with the components you are using.
 
#8
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

i just measured them and they seem to be holding there tolerance, although i have 2lbs of 4350...think I'll load another batch to test against the Hodgdon. thanks everyone for the help
 
#9
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

+ 1 on the 4350. my 700 also likes H4831 ssc with 168 A-MAX I would also try increasing you COL If I remember correctly I was around 3.55" with them. Not sure if the Noslers would be the same. Also each gun is different
 
#10
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aoerding</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3.340"...i also heard a clicking noise as i was seating those last few, i chamfer and deburr my cases well and i believe the noise was the bullet packing the powder down tight..normal?
iv reloaded tons of .223 and couple hundred .300mag rounds and never had that tight of a fit between the bullet and powder. </div></div>

aoerding,

Why pray tell are you loading to 3.340" COAL in a Rem 700 300 Win Mag? I hope it is not because some reloading book said that was the MAX COAL?

Think about it a bit before answering.

Thanks,

Bob
 
#11
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

with all do respect bob, 3.340" is usually the c.o.l. of these cartridges, and i am loading to the specs of the hodgdon website and book.. are you saying i should increase my col as mentioned above?
 
#12
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aoerding</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with all do respect bob, 3.340" is usually the c.o.l. of these cartridges, and i am loading to the specs of the hodgdon website and book.. are you saying i should increase my col as mentioned above? </div></div>
Yes. The standard max length is 3.340". This length will function in all 300 WM rifles. You can seat it there if you like. But you can lengthen it to gain accuracy and increase powder capacity. I would seat the bullet to "your" rifle. To do this, seat it as long as possible. You will either seat the bullet to the max magazine length (about .010 or .020" less than max), or til the bullet touches the rilfing, whichever comes first. If the mag is plenty long, then seat the bullet about .010" off the rifling. This will also give you a less compressed load seating it out further. This is the benefit of loading your own ammo. You can set it up to your rifle.
 
#13
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

aoedrding,

The COAL length in a book is a guide only, not something carved on a stone tablet. The 3.340" length was first specified in 1963. That's because the length of the standard Winchester mag box was 3.350".

But your now making "custom" ammunition specifically for your rifle.

However, your Rem 700 Long action has a max box length around 3.7". So it is 375 H&H length, not 30-06 length. Remington also has rather long throats in their barrels.

So it pays to start by first finding the MAX COAL for that bullet, in that rifle:

Your MAX COAL is always: the lessor of your magazine box length, or your neck to lands distance; or keeping at least .263" of bullet (not counting the boattail skirt) in your 300 Mag case.

Note, I'm not saying jam your bullet in into the lands. Find the lands first, then back off at least 0.010" to 0.020" from the lands. As long as it still fits in your mag box, AND keeps at .263" of bearing surface of the bullet (not counting the boattail skirt) in the case. This becomes your max COAL for that bullet, in that rifle.

That should be your starting point COAL for reloading.

You set the MAX COAL, not a book. There lots of advantages to doing this, and very few disadvantages.

So with all due respect, back at you, you are approaching it wrong by setting the COAL to book MAX, in a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag....Doing it by loading to book MAX won't get you in trouble, but your are not optimizing your load for YOUR rifle....

If you are loading for more than just one 300 Mag rifle, then you almost have to stick to the book max COAL.

But if it is just going in yours, then optimize your load.

Regards,

Bob

 
#15
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

3.340" is SAAMI spec. Most rifles will shoot better with longer C.O.L's. You need to find out at what length you reach the rifling with each particular bullet in an individual rifle. Record these measurements for future reference. By seating at the lands, off the lands (jump) and into the lands (often refered to as crush), you can find sweet spots for each bullet / load combination.

What is your charge weight for the compressed load? mscott above made mention of working your way up with the charge weight but you have not stated that you did that. Did you work up to the compressed load?
 
#16
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

Also do you know what to look for in the way of pressure signs as you are working up to max loads? I know the rem action is built like a tank but you can still get into trouble if you don't know what you are doing
 
#17
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

my ladder test consists of 11rds from 79.0gn to 84.0gn, .5 increments. The only compressed loads are the last two. I checked this by shaking the case and listening to any moving powder inside, and also remembering the way the bullet felt as i was seating it. This would be the first ladder test done to this rifle, as well as the first time i have used the mixture of h1000 and the custom competition nosler 168gnrs.

it's making it very clear that i need to order the hornady lock n load overall length Gage so i can properly set my col as well as obtain optimal accuracy.
 
#18
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aoerding</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my ladder test consists of 11rds from 79.0gn to 84.0gn, .5 increments. The only compressed loads are the last two. I checked this by shaking the case and listening to any moving powder inside, and also remembering the way the bullet felt as i was seating it. This would be the first ladder test done to this rifle, as well as the first time i have used the mixture of h1000 and the custom competition nosler 168gnrs.

it's making it very clear that i need to order the hornady lock n load overall length Gage so i can properly set my col as well as obtain optimal accuracy. </div></div>
Well, a ladder test is not what you have done. The way I understand it, you have 11 rounds, with 1 round each from 79 to 84, correct? If so, this does only 1 thing, which is to see if any of these loads will be max in your rifle. To do a proper ladder test, you will need to load up atleast 4-7 rounds of each powder charge to know what your gun likes.

You don't need the Hornady gauge. Take 1 bullet and seat it long in a case (about 3.650 or so). Then try to chamber the round slowly. If the bolt won't close, then the bullet is hitting the riflig. Seat the bullet about .020 deeper. Continue doing this until it chambers. Then, take a second round, and load it to this length. Chamber it, and see if it touches the rifling. Eject the round, and see if there are any rifling marks on the bullet. If so, then you are still touching the rifling. Keep seating the bullet a little deeper (.010" or so) until no rilfing marks show up on the bullet. Then, maybe seat it another .010 for insurance, and there you go. Your bullet is set to "your" rifle and chamber. Just make sure this length will function and feed from your magazine.
 
#19
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

aoerding,

You got it.

One other comment, and this is not meant as a negative, or that you should change something.

The 168 Gr Nosler is a remarkably un-streamlined bullet. Drive it to 3250 FPS in your 300 Win Mag and @ 1000K yds, your drops are 7.5 MILs, and 2.5 MILs for windage in a 10 MPH breeze.

Now take say a 185 Berger LRBT loaded to 3050 FPS (a full 200 FPS less), your 1K drops are now 7.1 MILS and 1.9 MILS for windage in a 10 mph breeze.

What I'm saying is going up in bullet weight from 168 grains to 185 grains, decreases your drops by 14.40", and decreases your windage by 18" @1000 yds. The elevation drops don't mean much, but the windage change is major.

The 300 win mag shines at long range, and any 168 gr bullet does not do it justice. YMMV.....

Bob
 
#20
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

I think this is a big step in the right direction, thank you for your guidance everyone it's greatly appreciated!
 
#22
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

The only way to really know is to test it. If you test it and the gun doesn't blow up, then it's probably safe.
wink.gif
 
#23
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

I've had some compressed loads in the past that would make you flinch as you seated the bullets, sounds like you're making powdered glass as you seat the bullets. I don't do that so much anymore, i'm loading bullets long so it's not as much of an issue. I do like to shoot at 100% loading density, so when I hear just a slight bit of crunching, I know that i'm there.

Branden
 
#24
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had some compressed loads in the past that would make you flinch as you seated the bullets, sounds like you're making powdered glass as you seat the bullets. I don't do that so much anymore, i'm loading bullets long so it's not as much of an issue. I do like to shoot at 100% loading density, so when I hear just a slight bit of crunching, I know that i'm there.

Branden</div></div>

Idem for me :eek:)
 
#25
Re: dangerous load?? yes or no?

I've noticed that in the past with compressed loads that they are more sensitive with the temp changes. I chased one for ever before I realized that my dope would change drastically every time we went out... Switched to a slower burning powder and fixed the problem with the same accuracy.
 
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