Data Book ... too much info

[Tomcat]

I am finding I really dont have much use for called shots and hit markers in my data book.
What I really need is:
Load
Date
Temp / sun / mirage
Altitude
Baro pressure
range dope for elevations and windage

I going back over my 600 yard verifcations, recording calls and hits, to me is not all that useful. Fun maybe.
What I really need is a record of above mentioned conditions and range dope.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[sinister]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

You're at the stage where your hits are pretty much on-call. A newer or junior shooter won't be able to figure this out until he's built that history and experience.

The experience call may not be so much an epiphany as a more satisfying, "Yep, exactly where I called it" -- as opposed to a "Wow, just like the math said it <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> go."

 

[bitter24]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I just started using a book for my rifles, I like how I can keep a record of round count. Along with seeing a pattern for cold bore verse once the barrel heated up.

Havent had much experience using a book yet, but I can see where the info you posted would be very useful. Since you can see impact change with different temps/humidity.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Old or new shooter "called shots" are critical. It's necessary to tell you if you zero is changing for one thing.

Beddings and barrels go south. You need to know and the best way is to record calls as well as hits. I find it difficult that anyone can have a pin wheel X every shot. It just don't work that way. You need to know if you pulled a 9 at 10 or 3 at 10. That should be recorded.

 

[cv209]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I customize my own data book. You can print out pages at:

shootingvoodoo.com
impactdatabooks.com
stormtacticaldatabooks.com

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I don't particularly like the way data books are put together either. I use a regular Rite-in-the-Rain pad and record the data I need for a particular range session, and that often differs each time I go out depending on what I'm trying to accomplish.

Some things I like in my book...

-Sizes of common objects like road signs, vehicle parts, construction materials etc.

-Torque specs for different rings/mounts and rfle parts for my rigs

-Ranging formulas

-Range cards from bullet flight

-Round count logs for all weapons

-Any special procedures for zeroing certain optics such as an EREK

-Atmospheric charts for determining density altitude, crosswind components, etc.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

As mentioned each shooters needs are different. As we advance in our own shooting disciplines, the way we start recording and charting can become different or move in different directions.

I have know this and 100% agree if you look through the pages we offer (over 380 different ones) I am sure you will find pages that will work for your individual style and allow you to collect what you want and how you want. The ability to have flexibility, options and alternate methods of collecting data in a organized manner was never there with traditional data books. These are the exact things I fought when I was in the military and had to make my own books. My goal with IDB was to solve the problem and give the shooters what they need to be successful. I think we have succeeded with that.

Our books offer a solid set of tables, charts, formulas and reference materials that exceed what has previously been offered. To me the index pages are the heart and soul around which a good data book is built around.

If you look at these two sections, they may be very helpful to you Tomcat and BattleAxe

http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Load_Development_s/55.htm

The load development pages offer you a systematic way to keep track of your loads.

http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Shooters_Diary_Series_s/127.htm

The shooters diary series of pages gets rid of all the calling of shots. It allows you to plot the impacts of your hits and your environmental data and gives allot of room for notes and comments. These are very popular pages to advanced shooters.

In the end a data book is a systematic, organized, way to keep track of your information.

If you are keeping a notebook then you minds well use a data book to help with your organization.


If I can be of any help to anyone please drop me a line.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

NOMAD,

What kind of stuff is in the index section? Couldn't find a sample on your site. It may be the type of stuff that was absent from the last book I tried (not one of yours)

 

[Tomcat]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I primarily use the Index Pages / Summary pages and the shooter diary.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply's

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Sorry for delayed response:

In our index pages you will find info on leads for movers, angle fire, range estimation, common conversion formulas, ballistic charts for the most popular factory cartridges, shooter and weapons information pages, yards to meter conversion charts and more.

These index pages were designed around stuff I needed and used often while actively working as a Scout Sniper.

hope this helps!

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I just got my books in. They are outstanding thanks NOMAD.......

 

[a_bishop]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

i need to get a good data book and stop using my pocket note books. Is everyone liking their impact books?

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry for delayed response:

In our index pages you will find info on leads for movers, angle fire, range estimation, common conversion formulas, ballistic charts for the most popular factory cartridges, shooter and weapons information pages, yards to meter conversion charts and more.

These index pages were designed around stuff I needed and used often while actively working as a Scout Sniper.

hope this helps!

</div></div>

Thanx for the info. I finally got to see one of your books this past weekend and its exactly what I'm looking for. I'll order one tonight.

 

[1911fan]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i need to get a good data book and stop using my pocket note books. Is everyone liking their impact books? </div></div>

Yes. I'd tried several data books, even printed up some of my own looked at Impact's site and ordered a book customized to what I wanted. I also like that it's a three-ring binder, so if I want to add or remove sections I can.

I second Kraig's opinion, called vs. impact is useful data for ALL shooters. Variations in powder lots, physical condition and positioning, and of course barrel wear can all change. If you are an experienced shooter, tracking your called shots vs. impact can tell you if your barrel is tired. If you're a new shooter, learning to call where you think your shot went compared to what the target says will help make you a better shooter.


1911fan

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I like my Impact Book, and I love their Shooter's Diary pages. Very clean, very simple, plenty of room to record dope and notes on the conditions and holds for various ranges on different trips.

To me, calling shots is time consuming and the benefit is minimal. If you are jerking the trigger bad, it might be useful. If you have progressed to a pretty smooth pull, its a lot of work and what does it really tell you?

You need to develop a good trigger squeeze with practice at 100, calling shots at that distance may be beneficial. When you have that down, move out, and then its time to learn how to dope the wind. When you get it right, write it down. When you get it wrong, get it right, then write it down. Then you have good hard data for future shoots in similar conditions. Then you are on your way toward developing a good feel for how your rifle, and your load, perform in the varying conditions.

 

[RollinCoal11]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Just got my Premade datebook from Impact and this thing is really nice. I can tell its gonna be a great tool for this newish shooter.

Thanks Nomad

 

[aaron burks]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I guess I gotta have one of these data books too. The list never ends of the stuff I need/want. Haha

 

[aaron burks]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Where is the best place to pick one of these up?

 

[RollinCoal11]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Go to the source.

http://www.impactdatabooks.com/

 

[Cubed333]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

+1 for Impact, got it a while ago and level of shooting has increased, having information there that I had no idea about being a noob gave me reason to focus on something. My accuracy has skyrocketed and my call shots have been getting better and better, largely through actually paying attention to what I was doing when shooting.

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Old or new shooter "called shots" are critical. It's necessary to tell you if you zero is changing for one thing.

Beddings and barrels go south. You need to know and the best way is to record calls as well as hits. I find it difficult that anyone can have a pin wheel X every shot. It just don't work that way. You need to know if you pulled a 9 at 10 or 3 at 10. That should be recorded. </div></div>

+1 here. There is nothing worse than having incomplete data, and when you are not having such a fruitful day, WHY? Well, has your barrel seen 1000 too many go through it? Maybe it is a waste for you now, but if you do keep called shots, you might thank yourself in 3 years.

 

[Accusource8541]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Its my opinion that a good data book is a very important tool for serious long range shooters and they should be filled with as much of your shooting data as possible. When I worked in STA the data books we were issued were lacking to say the least. I have been a customer of Impact Data Books for a few years now and I'm very happy with the variety of pages and set ups they offer. Seems like they are putting together new pages ever so often too. They are good to go in my book!

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I record conditions which can effect the shot. Call/strike corollary has proven useful too, as well as beginning and ending zeros. I don't think you can have too much information, yet, some information is useless unless its related to real time shooter/target analysis, that's to say, you've got to have some idea about what benefit may come from the score book notations you're making.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Data we disregard today can be useful at a later date.

Our needs and our insights change, and the most useless data in the world is the stuff we previously thought was too unimportant to record.

The day <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> come when one wishes one had started tracking certain trends sooner.

Greg

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Data we disregard today can be useful at a later date.

Our needs and our insights change, and the most useless data in the world is the stuff we previously thought was too unimportant to record.

The day <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> come when one wishes one had started tracking certain trends sooner.

Greg</div></div>

Merry Christmas Greg

When you say "tracking trends" can you give me an example, I don't think I've ever looked through my score book for any thing like that; but, perhaps I should.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Mae West said it best: "Keep a diary today, it will keep you tomorrow"

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Merry Christmas, Charles;

For a start, the relationship between cartridge OAL and drop/dispersion, as an external indicator of potential throat growth.

For another, trends in call/marker deviation, as an indicator of the effect of local terrain and wind directions/strengths on wind calls, as opposed to different venues. Each venue has its own quirks, and the book reveals all.

The relationsip between powder lots and drop.

What I'm saying is that as we learn, we have more use for more data, that having begun collecting that data prior to such insights can provide more grist for the newer, improved mill; and might easily result in earlier and better informed conclusions. I.e., reading back for an 'ahah moment'.

Greg

 

[PanaDP]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me, calling shots is time consuming and the benefit is minimal. If you are jerking the trigger bad, it might be useful. If you have progressed to a pretty smooth pull, its a lot of work and what does it really tell you?</div></div>

I can't argue if you don't see the benefit of calling and recording your shots but how is it "time consuming"? It takes seconds.

 

[wmhutchison]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I use a data book from TSSI and fill in all the info I can.
As has been mentioned the called shots and hit markers are important. When you combine all of this info it will help you develope a dope chart for your rifle.
It's best to have all the info you can.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me, calling shots is time consuming and the benefit is minimal. If you are jerking the trigger bad, it might be useful. If you have progressed to a pretty smooth pull, its a lot of work and what does it really tell you?</div></div>

I can't argue if you don't see the benefit of calling and recording your shots but how is it "time consuming"? It takes seconds.</div></div>

For an experienced shooter shooting prone, plotting calls and strikes may be moot; however, plotting calls and strikes from the standing position is beneficial, even for the experienced shooter. It allows for on the fly analysis and refinement of zero such as may be required for a shooter's unique relationship to an odd firing point he's standing on.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am finding I really dont have much use for called shots and hit markers in my data book.
What I really need is:
Load
Date
Temp / sun / mirage
Altitude
Baro pressure
range dope for elevations and windage

I going back over my 600 yard verifcations, recording calls and hits, to me is not all that useful. Fun maybe.
What I really need is a record of above mentioned conditions and range dope.

Anyone else feel this way?

</div></div>

If you just shoot for enjoyment that is all you need. I keep a log of pretty much the same thing. People who are warriors, cops, competitors, and reloaders need to keep much more extensive records to include everything applicable including having two zeroes.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

Everyone collects data in different matters.

The key is to be able to keep it organized in order for you to be able to reference it and use it at a later date.

We offer multiple pages to allow you to do just that.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am finding I really dont have much use for called shots and hit markers in my data book.
What I really need is:
Load
Date
Temp / sun / mirage
Altitude
Baro pressure
range dope for elevations and windage

I going back over my 600 yard verifcations, recording calls and hits, to me is not all that useful. Fun maybe.
What I really need is a record of above mentioned conditions and range dope.

Anyone else feel this way?

</div></div>

Do some google searching. I know you can buy the write in the rain paper yourself and if you have a laser ink jet printer you can make the pages exactly how you want them. Pretty easy to do if you prefer your own custom cards.

 

[Graham]

Re: Data Book ... too much info

I am not a hi-power target shooter, so I use a data book differently than the NRA guys and I don't plot shots.

Mark at Storm tactical did a custom ELR book for me: When you open it, a range card on the back of the previous page is what sits on top, and on the bottom a data page with three wind directions, actual/corrected elevation and wind data, angle, GPS data, and a grid. The elevation tables go to 3000 meters. Very nice, but specifically for ELR.

Otherwise I like the Impact books, because they have a very useful cold-bore section and that's mostly what I regularly record about my rifles anyway. The Impact books also have great chrono sheets, and obervation/comm log sheets which I find extremely useful.