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Data Books: How Important?

P

Pete E

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2004
292
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North Wales, UK
Like many people on the site, I am purely a recreational shooter/hunter.

I am wondering for folks like myself, just how important/ relevant keeping a data book is, and who keeps one and who doesn't bother?

For those that do use them, with most of the databooks being aimed the needs of the Military/LEO, what pages do you consider essential for recreational shooter / hunter?

I am looking at starting to keep a databook, so I'm interested in peoples opinions and recommendations,

Regards,

Peter
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Keeping track of your data is very important. Putting it in a premade book isn't. Excel, tape, and some laminate are your best bet. Just keep it neat and organized. You may want to look at or buy a premade one to get an idea of what to record. You will want to keep track of the weather/geographic features and your dope according to it, but plotting each and every shot, that's up to you. The data books do look nice, but they usually have a bunch of useless crap in them. For example, a basic diary will have Mil/MOA Yard/Meter etc etc... you are probably going to use just one and the rest of the paper wasted. Round count and dope is probably all you will really need being recreational, unless you want to do some UKD ranges then you may want some item sizes for miling your targets. If I were you, and this is what I have done. I have a fancy smancy, data book in both physical and digital form, but when I go to the range I take a small notebook write down my info, then transfer it at home. That way my databook doesn't get ruined by dirt/rain etc... Find your average dope, on an average day, laminate it, type it up, and stick it to the side of your rifle. It's more of a guideline, since dope can change day to day.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Data books in the end will make you a better shooter and help save you money.

Having a good starting point of what data you need on your rifle will also allow you a better chance for a first round hit.

Data books when used properly in combination with your training will you to focus on the fundimentials for each and every shot rather then just slinging rounds down range and calling it training.

If a data book wasnt such a usefull and needed training aid then why would the military use it to teach new recruits who never have fired a rifle in there lifes and make them great shooters to world class shooters.

It starts with the basics and the data book is a valid tool if you use it right!


In addition we offer modular designed books that fit into anyones shooting needs and desires. Along with the ability to print off and use the targets we offer for free on our website.

If you need anything or have any questions please PM me or drop use a email.

Happy Shooting
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I'm pretty much of the same school of TalkingBush. I don't have a commercial data book. Much of the information in them is designed for people who are either competition paper punchers or L.E. snipers who need to document their training, and doesn't apply to what I do.

I just keep a sequential diary of my shooting. I have a printed Density Altitude dope card for my load, which has elevation and wind data, validated in the field. I also know how much the muzzle velocity for my load varies with temperature, and how to correct for that.

All I record for a shooting session are the atmospheric conditiions - temperature, humidity, barometric pressure - and the results of the shooting. The objective data I record are limited to what the deviation was from my DA dope card, if any. I may also record some particular aspect of shooting that I need to practice.

That's all I need. It's contained in a 3 ring binder which stays at home, and I just use a notepad in the field. The three ring binder also has a barrel log for each rifle.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I have 2 Impact Data books, they are very nice. If you're going to buy one then I'd suggest them or Storm, both are sponsors here.

That being said, I don't write in them nearly often enough, they tend to just take up room in the range bag. That's my fault, not the books.

If you're not sure, $40 is not a huge investment and if nothing else the pages will give you lots of ideas on what notes to keep. If you reload the Impact book made for North Texas Precision Rifle or whatever CKAs company is called has some nice pages for keeping track of loads. If $40 is a more than you can stomach right now then get a small write in the rain notebook and a #2 pencil and just take notes. It's the documenting part that matters, not where you write it.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Impact Data Books/North Texas Rifle Percision is my perferred book, the Storm Data Book is good, but the replaceable pages and the custom pages that NOMAD makes puts them in a league of there own.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Pete E,

I know exactly how you're feeling. Before I went to Sniper School, I struggled with deciding exactly what I should keep track of. Early on, when I first started shooting, I only kept track of my cold bore shots. I didn't know much back then, and I'm not saying I know a whole lot more now. I've always kept a round count though. Last year, when I started shooting more, I became aware of how important a data book really is.

I was never good, and I'm still not great, at plotting my shots in a log book. I decided to make my own log book pages, trying to keep it as simple as possible. I kept track of the typical things like date, time, weather conditions, temp, wind, and things like that. Then to keep it really simple, I left a large space on the page to put my shots on. I would just shoot groups of 3 to 5 shots, then cut them off of the target and tape them to the log book page. I felt this was best for me that way I could simply look at the page and see how I shot on that day in those conditions.

Here are pictures of what I came up with.

2010_0427Image0002.jpg


2010_0427Image0001.jpg


I am no way trying to claim that I am an expert in this area. Hell, I'm not even trying to say that I know what I'm talking about. Just trying to show you what worked best for me. Hope it helps.

By the way, I have the blank page on a thumb drive and I can email it to you if you'd like. Not trying to take business away from anyone, just trying to help.

Thanks and take care...ANDY
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Oh, by the way, I also have 2 Impact Data Books and they really are nice. I got the data book covers from 8541 Tactical and they're not bad either.

Thanks...ANDY
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Peter, I have used/do use data books in the field that travel with each rifle, and they have either:

a) Specific ELR pages for extreme long range shooting range data recorded on site; or

b) Field Sketch Grid/Comm Log/Lockrep/Critical Info/Detailed Commentary sections only.

But otherwise I have a binder for each rifle, kept at home, with, in order inside each one:

1. Zero page, which records: a) true statements, b) current zero, ammo used and data for the zero conditions, c) chrono data on the current ammo or lot of ammo and d) a dated copy of the target shot for reference.

2. Round Count page

3. Cold Bore Sheets, with indexed photocopies of the cold bore shots

[4. Some rifles have a monthly qual record]

5. Scope Log and Optic Data Sheet (moves from book to book with the optic), contains data on the scope and reticle being used

[6. Match rifles have load developent info/chrono record section]

7. Data on rifle itself, like torque specs for AI's, or build info on GAPs, and when/if repaired or serviced.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Impact Data Books/North Texas Rifle Percision is my perferred book, the Storm Data Book is good, but the replaceable pages and the custom pages that NOMAD makes puts them in a league of there own. </div></div>

I use NOMADS RITE IN RAIN DATABOOK, as well as Storm 3 ring book and the coil bound book, but Storm Tactical has been making data books for years, and they had the modular book with replacement pages and custom pages long before Impact even existed, just an FYI.

Mark from Storm can get anything you need put together.

Tony is gtg too, but don't leave him alone with your sister.............or your mother.

Either book is great, just make sure you know what you need to save on pages you won't use.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Get a data book, learn to use it, and it will hone your skills.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...don't leave him alone with your sister.............or your mother.</div></div>

Or your dog...
laugh.gif
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Thanks for the input gents...

It looks like I am part way there as I am already collect some of the data in my reloading records, plus I keep confirmation zero targets as part of the qualification process for the hunting club I'm in.

Ready made databooks are not that easily available over here, and the only one I've seen I was not overly impressed with as much of it wouldn't be applicable.

I think I need to better organise the data I am already collecting and then work out the pages I need to capture the rest.

Although I am sure the guys who produce and sell custom Data Books are very good, I think I am going to print something off along the lines of what Andy has produced, but a little smaller so it is note book sized.

Thanks again,

Peter
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Everyone thank you for the compliments and feedback on our books.

We are designing and developing new pages every day to make sure we are able to cover everyones shooting needs.

In the next few days 40 new pocket book size pages will be available, a bunch of new pages in the standard size and a new coil bound premade book option as well.

We look forward to helping every shooter to collect the information that they need to be successful.


Hey Pete when you get the itch for a custom built book we are here to help you out and we do ship overseas!!
smile.gif
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Oh yeah and you will get better and save money using a data book.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Like Lindy and others, I have a spreadsheet with numerous tabs for keeping a record of every shooting session, load development notes, ranging formulas and standard sizes for everything from automobile wheels to people to home windows, load out, a printable dope/data sheet ... everything conceivable. I update it every session and keep a round count.

However I am beginning to see where an Impact book might make sense. More portable, still plenty flexible, etc. Best of all I'd look all operatory at the range.
laugh.gif


I may be a convert soon.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

We love converts and have been getting plenty of them LOL.

But seriously we want to offer the most to every shooter to allow them to be successful.

We are always need pages so keep checking back for whats new!!
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I think data books may not be that important for guys who strictly shoot known range targets at formal ranges. But for field work I think its important for sure. I know from field work having a reference to make a coldbore shot at long range a reference of not only your hits but your misses and where your miss impacted is critical. For me it helps in not repeating mistakes and by writing things down its just like school sort of-by writing things out it seems to commit it to memory better. With that said I have to say I am not a big data guy...I don't have a PDA or computer record of shots.......only a log book and I think if you shoot multiple rifles each rifle should have one.Now I don't bellieve when going range work you need alot of writing just aim, adjustments and impact. The wind/weather can all be on page one unless a change occurs. And I don't think you need to map a target completely like in true field work....the only intel you need to gather is what directly effects your shooting. I think alot of people are turning off using a log because they think or someone drills into them that you have to spend 3-5 minutes drawing/writing an essay of every shot...I'd be turned off too. BUt like Nomad says it will help you shoot better and save you money on sighter shots....with the goal being becoming a better 1st shot shooter. Work is also a personal taste....to me keeping one logbook is easier than using a PDA, taking notes and transferring data to a computer at home. Depends how techy you are I guess and what suits the individual.

Derek
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I don't think that it's the data book that's important, it's keeping the data.

The method is whatever floats your boat. I'm using the excellent Storm Tactical Data Books (before the Impact books came out and it's good to have a choice) and the next book get will be the Impact. All of the info is in one small package.

You choose whatever method fits your style better.

Good luck.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

It is very important but in all cases GIBO (garbage in garbage out). You have to be very concise in putting data into your book. That book is your rifle's encyclopedia/almanac. It tells you all the information about how it performed in certain weather, windage, elevation and different ammo. It is a great reference guide for your self so if ever you face the same conditions during a hunt you know how the rifle will react.
Like I said you have to be very specific in your descriptions. Write what posiokn you shot, if you pulled it, if you tried a new shooting method, etc. Be extremely specific. If you fill out most of the information on an Impact or Storm Data book it's a start then in the notes describe how you shot.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

The first data book was issued to me at Edsen Range. I learned how to use it and mark each shot for where I was aiming, and where it actually hit. This was to make adjustments. For years I made my own notes with whatever rifle I had. WHen I got my PSS I made a book from pages I found on the Hide. Now each rifle I have has been documented for where it shoots in each condition at each range it has shot at. The important thing though is the documentation of how many rounds each rifle has shot. This has a lot to do with barrel replacement at a much later date, or if I decide to sell, I have documented how many rounds have been shot in that stick.
Data books can be found and purchased, or you can make one DIY. The basics are though, that if you document your dope and training you will become a much better shooter
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I try to record my shots as much as I can. This helps me significantly with getting the first round on target. Of course, the size of your target is a factor also. On different days with different MET factors and ENV factors, your POI can change slightly even at 100 yards. I am talking about putting first round cold bore into a 1" target at 100 yards. Wtith a 1" target, 1/4 MOA shift of POI can be at miss even at 100 yards. JMO
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Again, thanks for the insights Gents...
I am definately going to start recording more data and see what results it yields.

I've down loaded a few sample pages off the Net and I think they will give me the basis for what I want and what I don't.

I will probably continue to keep a seperate log of my load development though, and keep the data book focused on just the essentials.

Regards,

Peter
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I would say if you are a newer shooter they are even more important than an experienced shooter even if just shooting to 300 yards. a lot of people say ihead shot that animal at 300 yards and then you ask how they did it and they aimed straight at it and hit it with a 223 or 308 or 270. You ask where they zero's there rifle and either spot on at 100 or an inch high. bulllets cant fly that flat and they thought it was 300 yards more like 150. but when you start stepping back in range the other things like wind reading diagrams showing how the wind not only pushes the projectile sideways but changes the elevation on them becomes a great learning tool. Also like mentioned above you get one issued in the Army as soon as you start handeling your rifles. they cover everything from your 25yard zero range to 600 yards with mine and the SLR in the Australian Army. Military Sniper books are diferent again and you can use them too any distance. the good ones also cover leading a target this can be good if you have a grasing animal out 500 yards away you are well hidden you can do some calculations and have a very high probability of a safe humane first hit despatch. It also covers shooting up and down hill enviromental perameters. ranging with MOA or Mills.

So what i am saying i think they are the best envestment you can get to obtain the correct tools to use for training and learning about how a projectile behaves in diferent enviroments and distances and how you should adjust your aioming/dope to make a shot.

With my F Class rifles i have a sinclair log book it lets you write in the range you are shooting at, distance, ammo used, and other things you might want, i have one for each rifle and you can also keep an accurate round count if you wish but the ability to keep good zero's for the diferent ranges and conditions helps having your zero centred every time from the start.

So you do have some options i would contact NOMAD and ask him to put together a Data book that will benifite you make sure you get all of the charts for wind distance and angle as they will be a great tool to have and with the actual data you want to reccord you can customise the book to suit.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

i got notebooks. some for dope some for round count and some for reloading/load developement
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

The kicker with precision shooting is being able to say with confidence where your shot will impact given all the environmental factors, scope setting (or hold), bullet used and any shooters factors that may be relevant (think position).By tracking all this info and seeing where you predicted the impact and where the bullet actually struck will educate you. For it to work and be most beneficial you have to be brutally honest as to what the initial point of aim (IPA) was and what the point of impact was (POI). Logging all variables and this info will teach you what to expect from the rifle.It will also help you hone your shooting technique. A precision shooter should know exactly where that bullet is going based on the variables present.That comes from religously logging your shots and then studying the data.That's right,it only works if you actually go back over the data and look at it for trends and patterns. My .02 worth (and not even worth that much).
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

For me I was/am able to get valuable help from misses as well as hits. When I was in the field and had a critical shot to make or I was in overwatch and had guys below depending on me. I could sit in my hide and find the same weather/wind conditions, same range(s) and same down angle etc. I can then view that part of the book and look not only at my hits but my misses and why I missed. So basically I corrected my misses before I made any by using my own past shooting history.

Derek
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Without a data book I couldn't keep up with more than one rifle. Let's see now, was that 8 clicks at 300 yards or 300 clicks at 8 yards......getting old is hell.
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

Between multiple rifles and multiple calibers it is hard to keep up the old rule was 1 book for each gun
smile.gif
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

I've just started to keep a detailed book for my rifles as I've introduced multiple loads for each. I was wondering if there was a standardized notation that is taught and used. And if so I was hopiing some one could post examples. Ideally I would like my info to be uniform throughout my info as well as those I shoot with. Thanks
 
Re: Data Books: How Important?

NY700 we offer a chrono-velocity and a Load developement page that works good to track your loads.

We also offer a online instruction manual for data collection and we are slated to get a few other nice instructional tools posted up in the near future as well.
 
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