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DD MK12 or BCM MK12?

TheBigCountry

TheBigCountry

Green Weenie
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Minuteman
    • Dec 9, 2013
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    Hello all,

    I have decided I want to get myself a nice AR as a gift to myself for getting my career in LE going. I have been doing some looking and I have found two that really match what I am wanting in a precision AR for varmint use, as well as some long range target use (out to 600).

    I have found the Daniel Defense Mark 12;
    https://danieldefense.com/rifles/daniel-defense-mk12.html

    I also found the BCM Mark 12 Mod O;
    BCM® Rifle Company

    What do you think would be better of the two? I like how the BCM comes with an A2 stock and BUIS from the get go, which I would have to add to the DD.

    Anyone have any hands on experience with either?

    Thanks,

    A.J.
     
    Build it yourself ar's are easy to put together. Aimsurplus has lothar walther 18" spr barrels in stock for $400.
     
    The DD MK12 is new to me. I had recently been toying around with the idea of putting together an SPR'ish type upper for my DDM4V7. I was interested in DD's 18" S2W barrel, except that the one available on their website had a mid-length gas system. This one seems to be rifle length. My V7 is a 2MOA rifle with a red dot off of a rest, I'm going to guess maybe it would be a little over MOA at the same ranges with a decent scope. I don't know if this MK12 would be any better. I think that DD's reputation for uber reliability is what makes the company, not accuracy (although I'm very happy with the accuracy of mine). The BCM MK12's have had a lot of success being shooters with only a couple examples that didn't impress the owner that I found in my extensive research.

    However, I am simply regurgitating a lot from what I've read.

    I'm not sure that I'd buy either for strictly a precision AR for target/varmint shooting.
     
    I read about the upcoming DD Mk 12 and it really got my interest, especially the SPR barrel and chamber. But, I looked at the rest of the gun and don't want a quad rail, don't really think I like that new furniture, and I already had a Geissele DMR two stage trigger in the parts bin (as well as an LMT lower with Magpul CTR on which to run it). Mine will sport a WOA SPR 18" 1-7 223 Wylde from brownell's at $279, A DD upper for $129, Troy 13" Alpha rail, and a DD BCG for $180 (where did the quality $130 BCGs go). Round out wit a BCM barrel nut and either a BAD 1.0 or AAC Blackout on the muzzle and my build is just over $1000 for the upper.

    I'm sure the DD will be a very nice SPR, but the news of it prompted me to build my own with the exact parts I want.

    The BCM Mod 0 is a little dated for me with that PRI fore end, but the continuous top rail allows you to use regular rings which is a plus to me. I prefer the 1-7 twist for Black hills Mk 262 so the 1-8 of the BCM is a negative IMO.

    At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong with the DD or BCM, but you can build something else exactly how you want it for the same, or most likely a little lower cost.

    The benefits of acquiring the right tools, researching the how to, and enjoying building one of the few rifles an average Joe is actually capable of is, however, priceless.
     
    Last edited:
    diggler1833 said:
    The DD MK12 is new to me. I had recently been toying around with the idea of putting together an SPR'ish type upper for my DDM4V7. I was interested in DD's 18" S2W barrel, except that the one available on their website had a mid-length gas system. This one seems to be rifle length. My V7 is a 2MOA rifle with a red dot off of a rest, I'm going to guess maybe it would be a little over MOA at the same ranges with a decent scope. I don't know if this MK12 would be any better. I think that DD's reputation for uber reliability is what makes the company, not accuracy (although I'm very happy with the accuracy of mine). The BCM MK12's have had a lot of success being shooters with only a couple examples that didn't impress the owner that I found in my extensive research.

    However, I am simply regurgitating a lot from what I've read.

    I'm not sure that I'd buy either for strictly a precision AR for target/varmint shooting.
    Click to expand...

    What really intrigued us about the DD Mk12 is the CHF stainless steel barrel... Theoretically, due to the way CHF barrels are made, the accuracy should be outstanding. Time will tell, of course...
     
    I've had a MK12 on order with Mile high for a bit over a month now, I get the build your own but have been very happy with all my DD's and really don't have the time or desire to build my own, so I'm buying one as soon as it hits the door, which hopefully will be sometime in April
     
    A precision AR for varmint use, as well as some long range target use does not need BUIS, & more barrel is a plus.
     
    evoutfitters said:
    What really intrigued us about the DD Mk12 is the CHF stainless steel barrel... Theoretically, due to the way CHF barrels are made, the accuracy should be outstanding. Time will tell, of course...
    Click to expand...

    If the DD MK12 shows to be a consistent tack driver, that would be great. I love my DD, and would not have to think of too many excuses to add another to the stable (aside from monetary excuses). You are right, time will tell. I'm going to be heavily interested in this one too.
     
    I'd go with the Precision Reflex Inc. MK12 Mod 0 upper over the BCM Mod 0 upper. The PRI version is considerably cheaper, comes with a rear sight and uses a Douglas barrel. Be sure to apply for their Mil/LE discount if possible.
     
    I was just in this boat, looking for something similar to a Mk 12. I ended up back where I always do...JP's Rifle Builder.

    When you're looking at spending 2G on an AR, it is hard to not go with the JP's...

    Also look at the SR-15 LPR's. They look bad ass, come with Krieger 5R barrels, and probably shoot amazingly well. Also, KAC stopped manufacturing them, so they may become sort of a collector's type rifle.
     
    Don't expect an AR platform to have the same accuracy as a bolt gun. Especially for varmint use. Most of these "accurized" AR15s shoot about 1MOA or just a little over. Sure there are the occasional exception that will do better, but most claims for such are "optimistic" at best--3-5 shot groups instead of 10-shot groups, best group ever instead of any random group.

    I built one myself, using exact specs from the issued Mk12 mod 0, using a Douglas SS match barrel profiled by Compass Lake. It will put a 10-shot group of 77gr SMK in to 1"-1.25" @ 100yd. I can fairly regularly get 5 shot groups around 0.75", but that is about it. And that is pretty typical of these rifles. If you get better accuracy, then that is a bonus. But don't expect much more than this. If that kind of accuracy will meet your needs, then rock on. Otherwise, you may want to look at some other kind of platform.
     
    I went bcm. I absolutely love it. Tack driver supreme. Only thing to be aware of, bravo CO's are match chambers so you will get stuck cases if you shoot 223 instead of 556
     
    Been eyeing the DD mk12 since I first read about it. Think I'll wait to see some owner reviews before I order one though. DD is more known for their reliability so this being their first foray into a purpose built accurate rifle makes me want to wait a bit. Not to say that their other offerings aren't accurate.
     
    I have and LOVE two High Caliber Sales mk12's. They are unbelievable. PRI would be my second choice if you want a Mod 0.
     
    johngfoster said:
    Don't expect an AR platform to have the same accuracy as a bolt gun. Especially for varmint use. Most of these "accurized" AR15s shoot about 1MOA or just a little over. Sure there are the occasional exception that will do better, but most claims for such are "optimistic" at best--3-5 shot groups instead of 10-shot groups, best group ever instead of any random group.

    I built one myself, using exact specs from the issued Mk12 mod 0, using a Douglas SS match barrel profiled by Compass Lake. It will put a 10-shot group of 77gr SMK in to 1"-1.25" @ 100yd. I can fairly regularly get 5 shot groups around 0.75", but that is about it. And that is pretty typical of these rifles. If you get better accuracy, then that is a bonus. But don't expect much more than this. If that kind of accuracy will meet your needs, then rock on. Otherwise, you may want to look at some other kind of platform.
    Click to expand...

    Those are pretty much my results with the HCS rifles. But the beautify of the MK12 ( or any other similar quality ar) isn't so much how tight of a group you can shoot, but how rapidly you can put that group down range.
     
    I just read the specs on the DD. I think they are the only ones that nitride a CHF barrel. Would definitely like to see how that performs. Or how long it lasts.
     
    I would build your own, or atleast buy the parts and let a gunsmith build it. That way you can take what you like about diff manufacturers and Mage your own

    Odin works has nice barrels and rails
     
    genbrad said:
    I went bcm. I absolutely love it. Tack driver supreme. Only thing to be aware of, bravo CO's are match chambers so you will get stuck cases if you shoot 223 instead of 556
    Click to expand...

    Absolute bullshit.....BCM barrels indeed have SAM-R match 5.56mm chambers, but quality .223 ammo shoots as well in these barrels as 5.56mm.
     
    Spent a week behind a DD MK12 and it performed flawlessly. That said, I don't think you can go wrong with either one, both good companies and stand behind their product.

    Be safe,
    FourNineThree
     
    HD1911 said:
    Link?
    Click to expand...

    It was on gunbroker listed by MSTN when I was shopping for a mk12. It was on there for 2450$ + shipping.

    Description said he'd put it up against any upper Crane ever built and I don't doubt its quality but the price tag was insane.

    I just checked and its no longer there but it was there for 3 months or so. Excellent photographs, excellent description but 1000$ over a HCS upper... gfys
     
    For a total off the shelf gun, I would put my cash on a DD rifle over most of what is out there. They seem to shoot better and have a higher overall quality as far as an off the shelf gun than any other complete factory AR I've picked up for as far as I can remember. And yes that includes Noveske and especially LMT. All in All I have seen this from about 8 DD guns mostly 14.5s and 16s. No first hand experiene with the MK12 yet, but I have thought of buying one lately.
     
    I'll be the debbie downer who has to chime in that neither the BCM nor the DD version are "proper" MK12's.

    That said, both will probably shoot lights out. They just shouldn't be wearing the "MK12" name if they aren't going to be made to spec, but whatever. :)
     
    • Like
    Reactions: TB17
    Tangodown911 said:
    Someone has the current "spec" sheet for a mk12 rifle?
    Click to expand...

    Depends on which one you want to clone....Mod 0, Mod 1, or Mod H?

    Mod0
    Barrel: 18-inch match-grade stainless heavy profile with 1:7 ratio, rifle-length gas system
    Gas Manifold: PRI flip-up front sight
    Muzzle Device: OPS Inc. 12th Model muzzle brake / collar to be paired with the 12th Model suppressor
    Handguard: PRI Gen. III free-float
    Sights: ARMS #40 rear flip-up, PRI front flip-up
    Optics: Leupold LR/T 3.5–10×40mm M3, Vari-III 3.5-10x40mm M3, 2.5–9×36mm TS-30, or 3–9×36mm TS-30 A2
    Buttstock: Operator-specific but A1, A2, SOPMODs, and CAR stocks are common
    Mounts: ARMS #38 SWAN Sleeve rail mount, ARMS #22M scope rings, ARMS #32 bi-pod mount (Harris) or ARMS #42 (Versa-Pod)
    Bi-pod: Harris or Versa-Pod

    Mod1
    Barrel: 18-inch match-grade stainless heavy profile with 1:7 ratio, rifle-length gas system
    Gas Manifold: Stainless low-profile
    Muzzle Device: OPS Inc. 12th Model muzzle brake / collar to be paired with the 12th Model suppressor
    Handguard: KAC M4 Match free-float Rail Adapter System
    Sights: KAC 600m rear flip-up, KAC front flip-up
    Optics: Nightforce 2.5-10x24mm NXS (Navy) and Leupold LR/T 3.5–10×40mm M3, Vari-III 3.5-10x40mm, 2.5–9×36mm TS-30, or 3–9×36mm TS-30 A2 (USMC)
    Buttstock: Operator-specific but A1, A2, SOPMODs, and CAR stocks are common
    Mounts: ARMS #22H scope rings, ARMS #32 bi-pod mount (Harris) or ARMS #42 (Versa-Pod)
    Bi-pod: Harris BRM-S

    ModH (Holland) Recce
    Barrel: 16-inch match-grade stainless .gov profile with 1:7 ratio, mid-length gas system
    Gas Manifold: stainless low-profile
    Muzzle Device: OPS Inc. 12th Model muzzle brake / collar to be paired with the 12th Model suppressor
    Handguard: PRI Gen. III free-float
    Sights: N/A
    Optics: Leupold LR/T 3.5–10×40mm M3, Vari-III 3.5-10x40mm, 2.5–9×36mm TS-30, or 3–9×36mm TS-30 A2
    Buttstock: Operator-specific (SOPMOD, CAR, ACS, SOCOM, VLTOR, etc.)
    Mounts: ARMS #22H scope rings, LaRue LT104 SPR mount, NF scope rings
    Bi-pod: Harris with ARMS #32 mount

    Link
     
    Rinky said:
    It was on gunbroker listed by MSTN when I was shopping for a mk12. It was on there for 2450$ + shipping.

    Description said he'd put it up against any upper Crane ever built and I don't doubt its quality but the price tag was insane.

    I just checked and its no longer there but it was there for 3 months or so. Excellent photographs, excellent description but 1000$ over a HCS upper... gfys
    Click to expand...

    That sounds to me like it was a Complete Rifle, but if you're saying that the Upper alone was $2,450 and you weren't mistaken, yeah that's insane.

    His Complete Uppers are Normally around the $1,600 mark, so I'm kinda dumbfounded on that one.
     
    HD1911 said:
    That sounds to me like it was a Complete Rifle, but if you're saying that the Upper alone was $2,450 and you weren't mistaken, yeah that's insane.

    His Complete Uppers are Normally around the $1,600 mark, so I'm kinda dumbfounded on that one.
    Click to expand...

    He may mark them up very high for gunbroker but I can assure you, this was just the upper. Not a single lower in any of the 5-6 pics.
     
    FWIW, my DDM4 V7 shoots an average of .676 MOA for 6 consecutive 5 shot groups, with the worst being about .8! And that's with me on the trigger. It is superbly accurate for an AR shooting factory ammo.

    If the DD MK12 is supposed to be even better, expect a 1/2 MOA rifle! I can't say enough good things about Daniel Defense.
     
    There's also a DD mk12 on gunbroker right now for about 2050$. BCM has been outta stock on about all of their mk12 for months.

    I've been trying to find a mk12 mod 1 for my cousin but now for 4 months. Now Hes being a tightass.

    I wouldn't be afraid to run the Daniel defense one
     
    The spec MK12 stuff is a little dated, honestly. Unless clone-status is your thing, I'd build my own. Its easy and you may even save a little money.

    I'd get one of BCM's new uppers, one of their KMR-13 hand-guards, and pick your favorite stainless match barrel. There are lots of quality barrel makers. Then just pick a BCM bolt carrier group or a NiB BCG if that's your thing, your choice of gas block, muzzle device, and gas tube, and roll.
     
    evoutfitters said:
    What really intrigued us about the DD Mk12 is the CHF stainless steel barrel... Theoretically, due to the way CHF barrels are made, the accuracy should be outstanding. Time will tell, of course...
    Click to expand...

    CHF has little to do with accuracy. Its just another method of producing barrels.

    DD is about 10 years late to the game.

    If you want a SPR, Roll your own. For Mod 0 go PRI or have one built for Mod 1 , High Calibur Sales.

    For your own, Ive used Lija, CLE douglas, WOA, and noveske. The WOA cant be beat for the $$.
     
    Flyboy22 said:
    FWIW, my DDM4 V7 shoots an average of .676 MOA for 6 consecutive 5 shot groups, with the worst being about .8! And that's with me on the trigger. It is superbly accurate for an AR shooting factory ammo.

    If the DD MK12 is supposed to be even better, expect a 1/2 MOA rifle! I can't say enough good things about Daniel Defense.
    Click to expand...

    Would love to see the video of this DD shooting .6 MOA over 30 shots with factory ammo.
     
    I put together a similar pseudo-close MK12. Mega billet receivers, 20" Krieger barrel, Geissele NM trigger, A2 stock, 12" quad rail, etc. Shoots a legitimate 1/2 moa on average off of a bipod with me shooting it. With more trigger time (it was my 2nd or 3rd time out with the rifle), sorting bullets and brass, and shooting on a perfectly calm day I could probably average .3's or .4's.

    I'd opt for building your own if you can handle it.

     
    lte82 said:
    I put together a similar pseudo-close MK12. Mega billet receivers, 20" Krieger barrel, Geissele NM trigger, A2 stock, 12" quad rail, etc. Shoots a legitimate 1/2 moa on average off of a bipod with me shooting it. With more trigger time (it was my 2nd or 3rd time out with the rifle), sorting bullets and brass, and shooting on a perfectly calm day I could probably average .3's or .4's.

    I'd opt for building your own if you can handle it.

    Click to expand...

    Good to see you got a good Krieger. Where'd you find one?
     
    Cobracutter said:
    Would love to see the video of this DD shooting .6 MOA over 30 shots with factory ammo.
    Click to expand...

    Reference the 6 group 100 yard Semi-Auto thread, bro. I believe my CHF DD is 2nd overall, against some pretty nice match-grade stainless rifles. That's with a S&B and some nice hardware, but at its heart it's still a DD.

    And if you're saying I'm lying about the distance or the ammo, well, then we have nothing to discuss.
     
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