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Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

S

SmallBoreSnipers

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 15, 2009
1,204
1
43
Troy, NY
Alright. I'm really sorry guys, but this poll is just taking way too long, I can't edit it, and I'm sure a majority of the competitors here have already voted anyway. Let's just get this thing done so we can hopefully have an August match. We may even come up with something new. The 3 targets are below. Just say which one you like. No need to explain yourself. As always, we'll just let majority rule. Voting will close 5 pm Monday the 26th.

It is important that this thread stays near the top so that all of the competitors see it. So, I apologize to the board, but I will probably be bumping it.

My vote is for Neo's.


Dart Board

dartborad.jpg


Neo's Second Target

Neo_second.jpg


TP's Target

Target5.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Oh yeah, I need to decide a closing time. The end of voting will be 5 pm Monday the 26th. That way everyone will have had a chance to see it over the weekend. I will add this to the original post.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Actually, when I think about it more, I have to change my vote. I'm the same way. I like TP'S, but getting 3 targets out of a box instead of 2 is cool. I also think the bingo letters are a little too big.

So that means there are now 4 for Neo's and 2 for bingo.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Hey now don't let my cheapness rub off on ya
laugh.gif
What ever target we choose it's gonna be fun.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

^ lol. Well it's not just about being cheap. It's one more chance to get a better target each time you go out. Either way it's gonna be cool. I guess I can't really dis the size of the bingo until I actually go shoot at it. If the tropical storm doesn't mess up the weather on Sunday I'll take both targets out. But for now, my vote is still for yours.
smile.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, when I think about it more, I have to change my vote. I'm the same way. I like TP'S, but getting 3 targets out of a box instead of 2 is cool. I also think the bingo letters are a little too big.

</div></div>

the number of rounds can be reduced, say 1 cold bore, 10 "bingo" numbers (leaving 15 no shoots) and 4 dots for a total of 15 rounds. the size of the #'s and letters can be reduced.

just remember it incorporates the cold bore that folks wanted, a search and shoot / no shoot scenario that changes every month while still using the same target (it doesn't get stale), and a bad guy / good guy feel with the 4 dots and diamond, the diamond being the good guy.

i'm not voting, i'm more of a politician
grin.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

^ True. Which is why I said we may even come up with something new. Maybe even some sort of hybrid between the two. I like the dots on Neo's target. They're like perfect size. My concern though is that if you reduce the bingo grid to that size it will be way too easy to hit the wrong letter.

It would be cool to shrink the letters down to about that size, and then spread them out like that. Not too hard, not too easy, and still mixing things up each month.

I think it would also be cool to add a group as part of the target. Take something the size of the cold bore target and get extra points for landing, say, 3 - 5 rounds inside.

The voting is pretty even. So one thing I am considering is taking the number of votes for each target into consideration, and then developing an "official" target that I will post that is just challenging enough, and that is designed to attempt to please all voters.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

In fact, Here is our new target (still have to make it pretty). Cold bore shot, 10 shots at these smaller letters thrown about, 1 in each black dot next to the diamond, and then a 3 round group into the diamond. Comes to 16 rounds. What does everyone think? I'm welcoming all suggestions.

Target5-2.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^ on Sunday I'll take both targets out. </div></div>

i figured if you are going to give it a whirl, i picked 10 numbers (for a ten shot stage) out of 25 pieces of paper (numbered 1-25, the number of blocks can be reduced to 20 or 15 later if you choose, which would leave 10 and 5 "no shoots" respectively)

in the order they were picked, and to be shot:

8, 10, 21, 6, 22, 9, 7, 20, 25, 11.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

^Damn tropical storm flooded the range. It's closed for the weekend. I'm gonna take them out on Wednesday when they re-open. Thanks for drawing the numbers man!
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^Damn tropical storm flooded the range. It's closed for the weekend. I'm gonna take them out on Wednesday when they re-open. Thanks for drawing the numbers man! </div></div>

WHAT??? You gonna' let a little water stop ya'?

Good luck on shooting the target when things dry out.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Bastards won't let me! Anyways I just went to grab another box of ammo when I realized I just shot my last one today. So I just now bought a bulk order. Wally world is out of the ammo I really need. So I have to wait for that to get here. When it does I'll try it out. In the mean time, anybody else that wants to test it out go for it!
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Ok i put this together and checked it out at 50 @ 6X I could make out the numbers (as low as my scope goes so YMMV). I like the target but miss the "Know Your Limits " shot but there's only so much room on the paper.

501.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

^ I say perfect. Looks really nice. The "know your limits" was pretty cool, but I think this is a good target to meet what everyone prefers. I'm definitely taking it out first thing when my ammo arrives.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

So is this match ready to go for August? Same bench and prone rules as the other matches except a rear support? As for hits I'm thinking we should just go with the center of the bullet. If it's in it's a hit. If not, it's a miss.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Personally I like all the rules you have in place.

As far as the group, I think it should be all or nothing, since that's pretty much the purpose of a group I guess. I like option 1 there. No deductions for a miss. Just simply either you can do it or not. I do like deductions for the hostage though. For the design of the group stage I think we should just thicken the black ring and get rid of the black dot like you suggested.

I like stage 1 = cold bore, stage 2 = grid, stage 3 = group, stage 4 = hostage

I think .5" for the grid and 1" for the cold bore and group are good sizes to start out with. We can always change them based on the results and feedback from all of the shooters. JMO
smile.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

That sounds good to me TP. I would like for the grid blocks & other targets be a little bigger. If this isn't the finished target, it is at least close.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Yeah lets go ahead with the larger sizes. I think this is a very unique, challenging, and fun target. I don't want to scare anyone away from it haha. I'm thinking we should go at least -10 for shooting the hostage. In the real world, you shoot the hostage, you f*cked up big time. Yeah I'm surprised there's no input from Neo and Hopper. But then again it is the weekend.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

yeah, the only reason i'm "foruming" now is the rain and brickyard 400.

i'm having a warm and fuzzy about having the hostage at least the same value as the bad guy (maybe more), as the whole idea is to save the hostage. otherwise if the hostage is down, throw in a frag grenade, problem solved
grin.gif


we'll see what the other guys think, make the rule adjustments if needed, make the different sizes. i don't know if neoshooter wants to, or if you guys want me to, just let me know. i think we'll have a working platform by august.

i know joe martin is out doing the black powder thing, i think he'd jump on board with it though.


 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Yeah we're still getting rain bands from Bonnie. I'm good either way about the hostage whether it's -10 or -15. This had been going on so long without Joe saying anything that I didn't even think he was in the game anymore!

Oh and I'm guessing Neo is the one working on the target. Unfortunately I only have MS Paint, otherwise I would.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

I say just do it. We can change for September if needed. I was excited about this mstch earlier, but I screwed up & practiced a while ago. I couldn't out shoot my Grandmother this afternoon! Crap!!!

That was a pretty good race today. Juan Pablo can't seem to buy a break, & Jammie Mac just ran good. The 24 & 48 were far enough back & everybody else did pretty good. I'm kind of a Tony Stewart & Mork Martin fan, but I like almost every driver in the cup series. I always pull for Dave Blaney to make the race but I am getting tired of him just running a few laps & pulling in. I hope he pickes up a good ride or a sponser with lot's of money next year.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

ok i reformatted the size so the blocks are 1", ufortunately 25 would not fit nicely so i dropped it to 20 blocks.

the cold bore black center is a bit over .5", the circle is 1"

the group circle is 1", and the hostage stage dots are .5", and the diamond is just a tick over 1" point to point.

i also used a font that is clearer and bolder for the numbers and stage descriptions. i'll add one more post after this to combine the target and the rules so if it is a go with you all it will be easier to post later.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

To print, you should save the 50 yard Tactical Rimfire Target. Right click on image, click save image as, then save 50Y TRT to your desktop, documents, where ever you please. This will keep the target from shrinking and keep it actual dimentions.

SH50YTRCTARGET-Copy.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Ok who went and F****P my target JUST JOKING. No it looks good only thing I would change is make the bingo square 3/4 instead of one inch and change the cold bore to 20 pts for a clean score of 100.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

I just printed it out. I agree about the bingo squars. They're just a tiny bit too big, especially if we're going to allow a rear support. But I still really like it.
smile.gif
The hostage part is perfect. I think that's what's gonna make it or break it for a lot of people.

I'm assuming we're going to be posting the scores in the short range section?
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

yeah, i'm kinda greatful that we were allowed the stickies we got, might as well put it in the short range section, as 50 yards, for the most part, qualifies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok who went and F****P my target JUST JOKING. No it looks good only thing I would change is make the bingo square 3/4 instead of one inch and change the cold bore to 20 pts for a clean score of 100.</div></div>

i had nothing to do but watch the rain and the race so i hacked it up for ya!
shocked.gif
beside smallbore is probably climbing the wall trying to get this thing going, i thought it'd save some time.

i'm thinking those squares are a bit large also, how about if we shoot it in august, then get feedback from folks shooting it. if it seems kinda like a "gimmie" we can trim them up a bit to 3/4". i think anything smaller would be too small to properly ID the numbers.

we can then add a few more squares if we want or just have more space between them, which i actually think would work out better as ther would be more area for a "0" point miss, and a misidentification or completely pulled shot into a no shoot -5.

then i think we should bump up the cold bore like you are saying, or even the group one for an even 100, you guys decide on that.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Yeah I say we just let it fly for August. We've got a nice target with good rules. Let's give her a test shot. I'm pretty sure many are going to want the numbers to be .75". I'd like .5" but then I have to remind myself that I shoot at 15X. You have to remember that some guys are shooting at this with 9X or less. So, the problem then does not become the size of the square, but as TP said, identifying the correct numbers. I think .75" will be a nice fit.

I also agree about the score being a nice even 100. Personally I think it should go to the cold bore. It's kinda like the hard hit you take for hitting the hostage. If this is to be a tactical target, that cold bore shot makes it a little more life like. As always, JMO.
smile.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Hi All,

I was bored so I created this target for a bit of fun. It combines all my favorite elements from the targets above plus some extras. I'm not necessarily suggesting it as a replacement to the your current choice. I haven't worked out how to convert the original word document to a full-size jpg file yet so the picture below is not the correct size. If anyone would like a full-size copy please shoot me a PM with your email address.

Special thanks to NeoShooter, TopPredator and TacticalPrecisionRimfire.com for the basis of this target

Cheers,
Shaz
mytarget.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

It's pretty good. I know some of the guys want that "know your limits". Personally, at 50 yards I would definitely like to see a group on the target though. Maybe change that "know your limits" 5 ring into one, or just squeeze one in there with them. We have to decide on a target pretty quick here though if we want to have this match for August.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Shaz your target looks great only changes I would make

1)Make the numbers bigger in the same size square.
2)change scoring to 20 and 10 for Cold Bore Shot.
3)Know Your Limits Shot should only be one shot with a negative value for a miss to give a Risk vs Reward feel to it.
4)If you move the "KYL" targets closer together there should be room for a "Group" shot.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

I just now printed it out and noticed that the numbers were 3/4". I don't know about everyone else but these look perfect to me. Work a group in there and it'll be sick.
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaz your target looks great only changes I would make

1)Make the numbers bigger in the same size square.
2)change scoring to 20 and 10 for Cold Bore Shot.
3)Know Your Limits Shot should only be one shot with a negative value for a miss to give a Risk vs Reward feel to it.
4)If you move the "KYL" targets closer together there should be room for a "Group" shot.
</div></div>

YEAH I REALLY LIKE THAT VERSION! i think this is closer to what we all were looking for. i measured it out, it's perfect size for the blocks and rings. i know i said i wasn't going to vote, but i HAVE TO VOTE FOR THIS ONE!

1) if the numbers can be a little bigger and still fit in the text box, that would be great. also maybe try bold font, that may make them sharper and fatter - easier to identify. maybe thicken up the lines of the box to give them more "pop" in the optic. maybe also cut 3 of the boxes for a total of 20 boxes, then you'll have a little more space around the remaining boxes for total misses of both shoot / no shoot blocks. i also think the more space in between would help bring the image of the seperate boxes sharper.

2) score of the cold bore - as a perfect score on the whole target is 185, i'd leave the points on the cold bore the same, but then add a 3 shot group circle for a 15 point score. then the perfect score would be an even 200. i'd also try to fatten up the line of the outer circle a little more, again to make it pop alittle more. the group circle should be 3/4" or 1"? 0 points for the whole stage if one shot is out of the circle. a group stage would also make it a 21 round count, and a 5 stage match.

3) know your limits - liking it as is, if you want to score higher, you take the risk of shooting at the smaller circles. miss once, 0 points for entire stage. IMHO that's pretty risky blowing the whole stage getting point hungry. or scrap the 30 pointer, and add must shoot at all three circles, a -5 point penalty for a miss. this'll also make more room for a group stage, and reduce the round count to an even 20. i like the idea of the group stage, it shows what the rifle / shooter is capable of.

4) again, i think the cirles and boxes should have fatter lines. i'd even try to somehow trace the outline of the bad guy in the hostage stage to make it stand out more. it just may be my printer, but i'm really losing the figure.

once again with a couple "anal" tweeks, i think this is the best target of the bunch, whatever tweeks are going to be made, SHAZ_AU, do you mind doing them?

let's fianalize this baby soon so we can get the rules straightened out too, and be ready to shoot for august.

SHAZ_AU should get bored more often, this target kicks ass...
grin.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

Hi Guys,

I've made a few more changes from your suggestions. Thanks for all the great comments and feedback.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaz your target looks great only changes I would make

1)Make the numbers bigger in the same size square.
2)change scoring to 20 and 10 for Cold Bore Shot.
3)Know Your Limits Shot should only be one shot with a negative value for a miss to give a Risk vs Reward feel to it.
4)If you move the "KYL" targets closer together there should be room for a "Group" shot.
</div></div>

Neo,
1) I'm working on making the numbers larger, I'm having trouble keeping them centered in the squares.
2) changed the cold bore to a maximum score of 25 rather than 20. Makes the total target out of 250.
3) I didn't change the KYL target. I think with the standard rules there is a risk reward component to this that you are after. Example if you shot the 5 and 10 pt rings successfully and shot at and missed the 20, you don't just miss out on the 20pts you lose the other 15 pts too. ie you get 0 for the stage.
4)Group stage added, see notes below.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would definitely like to see a group on the target though. </div></div>
SBS,
I Added a group stage at this stage its a 3/4" circle. I did this for a couple of reasons:
- I'm hoping that this size will be a good compromise. Still a challenge for our better shooters, without being impossible for people with less experience (ie me). We want to keep this fun, not too hard but not too easy!
- Keeps the scoring rings consistent with the KYL target

TP,
Thanks for the great comments, just found your reply as I was typing.
1) I'll keep working on the number size, i promise!
2) I did change the cold bore score, we can always change this back if suits people better. I just thought having the total target worth a nice round 250 would be great.
3) left as is for now, hopefully with the explanation above neo's OK with this.
4) I'll work on the lines and numbers some more in the next revision.

All,
Thanks again for all the feedback. I didn't mean to take over or anything, I just wanted to create something that had the best elements you had all discussed. Hopefully we'll get this finalised real soon. At least I don't think I'll be bored for a bit now, I've got plenty to do!

Cheers,
Shaz

PS the fullsize is still in .Doc or .PDF, I haven't worked out the full-size Jpg. if anyone can suggest how to do this OR how to post the PDF here that would be great!

50YdTacticalMatch2.jpg
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

i like it, and to be super critical because i'm super anal, perhaps swapping the position / stage of the group target with the know your limits may be better as stage 3, because by stage 4, you could use all the warming up you can get!

just to note: the 5 round group instead of the 3 round group will bring the overall shot total to 23 rounds, if you shoot at all the possibilities.

i don't think you took over anything at all, rather pleased by your participation.

i'm still getting a correct size for everything just as it is, i don't know if you have to try to resize it.

Cold Bore - outer circle 1" inner circle 1/2"
Grid Blocks - 3/4"
Know Your Limits - 1", 3/4", 1/2", 1/4"
Group - 3/4"

thanks for the effort, i'm hitting the sack, in the northern hemisphere it's 10 minutes to midnight.
sleep.gif
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

What can I say? I agree that with all tweeks done this target is perfect. Freakin AWESOME work guys!
 
Re: Decide: 50 Yard Match Target

..what's a few more minutes of lost sleep?

i agree it's a winner once those bolder lines are thrown in, and if you guys think any other minor switches that came up today should be made.

i'm thinking by thursday /friday we should have the final draft, change the rules a little here an there to accomodate the changes, and be shooting it by august.

once both are finalized, we'll put up the "virgin post": shaz_au could post the target in one thread, i can post the rules in another and link both the target and rules threads into the short range competition sticky.

this target was worth the wait, it basically has it all.

i tell you what, this would make an awesome centerfire target on larger paper.
 
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