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Hunting & Fishing Deer feeders

Re: Deer feeders

This is not turning into a what is hunting debate, this started as a what is hunting debate. The difference in a corn field and timed feeders is that the corn field is there all the time. Day and night. It is also a geographic area not a spot. A corn field can be miles long. A feeder is just that. If you wish to "get over it" you can I do plan on keeping my moral and ethical compass working and that includes calling poor sportsmanship just that. It does effect my hunting as the cancer is spreading outside to the real world. Texans come up here and bring their junk with them.
 
Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It all seems a bit domesticating to me, almost like livestock. </div></div>

Seems like that on my cameras as well. As soon as archery season opens (Oct 1) the bucks are out of their bachelor groups and the group of nice bucks you saw coming in like clockwork for months, on your game camera just disappear usually 1-2 weeks before archery. Happens every year. Feeder keeps going and I've never shot a buck or doe within 100 yds of the feeder. Keeps them stopping by/through the property, but doesn't guarantee anything at any given time of the day, timed feeder, gravity, food plot or not. Still need to put in the time on stand/blind or stalk (if the terrain allows) and use the wind to your favor.
 
Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It does effect my hunting as the cancer is spreading outside to the real world. Texans come up here and bring their junk with them. </div></div>

What exactly are Texans doing that effects your hunting property?

Are Texans baiting the deer off your property?

Are the Texans pulling deer from a corn field with a corn feeder?

What real world are you speaking of?

When it comes to whitetails Texas is the real world.

Mavericks experience is closer to mine when it comes to corn feeders.
 
Re: Deer feeders

I figured this thread would be a waste. Always has the assumption of "that isn't hunting unless you do it my way" or at least that's the way they end up. Not saying you meant it to go that way CBM.

Blackpowder hunters say it about rifle hunters, musket hunters say it about in line muzzleloaders, crossbow vs. compound vs. recurves vs. longbow. Where does that end? With a stick or a rock, naked, "That's the way real hunting is done". Someone would still whine saying the only way is to kill it with your bare hands, the way "real hunters" do.

While you're chest thumping away, you're doing exactly what all of the hippie-assed animal rights, anti's want- giving them all the ammunition they need to end hunting in the courts, and separate all hunters with infighting.
 
Re: Deer feeders

R u serious? "Texans are bringing their junk with them?" Wow I really can't believe you think that thats the answer. Have you ever bought any sorta bait for deer in your life? Have you ever put down mineral sites or planted food plots? I'd be willing to bet that if you have someone in this world would think you a lesser hunter. What does it matter if someone uses a feeder or not?
 
Re: Deer feeders

Road hunting, spotlighting, baiting, leasing and trespassing. I see them lease a property with no habitat and use it for a starting point or bait station. If Texas is the real world, it is the part where things that are unacceptable almost everywhere else are done openly. IE hunting from an elevated mobile stand, bait stations etc. This is not the norm, anywhere else I know of in the USA. It is a freak show.
 
Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured this thread would be a waste. Always has the assumption of "that isn't hunting unless you do it my way" or at least that's the way they end up. Not saying you meant it to go that way CBM.

Blackpowder hunters say it about rifle hunters, musket hunters say it about in line muzzleloaders, crossbow vs. compound vs. recurves vs. longbow. Where does that end? With a stick or a rock, naked, "That's the way real hunting is done". Someone would still whine saying the only way is to kill it with your bare hands, the way "real hunters" do.

While you're chest thumping away, you're doing exactly what all of the hippie-assed animal rights, anti's want- giving them all the ammunition they need to end hunting in the courts, and separate all hunters with infighting. </div></div>

I dont think you could have said it any better.
 
Re: Deer feeders

"difference in a corn field and timed feeders is that the corn field is there all the time. Day and night. It is also a geographic area not a spot."

haha.. so the corn froma feeder just dissappears at night..? oh wait that long line of trophy deer just gobble it up... haha
 
Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I see them lease a property with no habitat and use it for a starting point or bait station. </div></div>

You could buy a high fence to keep the deer you managed on your property.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The difference in a corn field and timed feeders is that the corn field is there all the time. Day and night. It is also a geographic area not a spot. A corn field can be miles long. A feeder is just that. </div></div>

How is a corn feeder going to pull deer away from miles of corn?
 
Re: Deer feeders

King,
Are you talking about supplmental feeding, year round, free feed at any time? That is not what I was refering to. I have been refering to the spin feeders, timed to put out grain when the hunter is in the porta pottie on stilts. They also now make one that does not feed, just spins and draws deer to the sound, for the guys that cannot or will not buy a bag of corn. I also do not accept that all people who enjoy hunting or baiting and shooting deer are required to march in lock step. I would think that generally accepted sportsmanlike conduct would do more to promote hunting long term, than ignoring gonzo hunting. Sportsman have long policed their ranks. Turning a blind eye will not help.
 
Re: Deer feeders

no he is saying that a corn field can be miles long.. not just that one spot like a feeder..

but then i would imagine more tree stands or blinds would be put up around it.. but thats just an immoral texan talking.. haha
 
Re: Deer feeders

ok.. pedophile comparison, to folks putting out feed for deer? seriously..?

you have some deep rooted issues going on in your melon my friend.. you were amusing to pick apart at first, but i can see you are truely disturbed, and some some issues you need to hash out.. you folks in kansas have fun this this one roaming round your area.. good day gentlemen..
 
Re: Deer feeders

OK, removed it, but the point is that I see no reason remain quit about what is generally accepted as unsportsman like. I also did not say that Texans are immoral, or any more so than any other people, but the standards of fair chase are far different from the norm.
Also in the sentence I deleated, I did not intend to compare Texas hunters to criminals. I do not think I did. Sorry if you were offended. My point was all of any group have the responsibility to do a bit of self policing. I think we would be remiss to not do so.
 
Re: Deer feeders

IN THE HUNTING FIELD. Please read the entire sentence. I do not find this a contridiction. I still would not look to Texas for morals or ethics in the hunting field. And there are some great sportsman from Texas, including some I know who refuse to hunt there due to fences and baiting.
 
Re: Deer feeders

I think the money spent on corn in TX is around 10,million a year here are some bucks that would only come at night never got to see them in the day time.
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Re: Deer feeders

This is one of the problems with the hunting community.If we cant let people hunt the way they want to (if legal)then the anti hunters win.You dont like hunting over a feeder, then dont but dont degrade those that do.If we cant find common ground we may lose the right all together.
 
Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knockemdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The part about deer hunting to us guys who don't/can't/won't bait animals artificially, is that we have to find (hunt) the deer before we can shoot them. There is no 'drawing' or 'holding' deer in an area via a mechanical feed station. If the deer are not on our chosen property, then we have to FIND them, HUNT them, then SHOOT them where they happen to be at the time...</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most say baiting does not help but can/would not hunt without it. Odd logic there.

About not hunting over a corn timed device, I will quote Lindy, a fellow Texan, " I have never used a dildo either, but know I do not want to." </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: caustic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally would not conceder someone who uses the feeding method to be a great hunter, I would consider someone who can track, scout and stalk very well and is able to range and place their shots well from various positions at standing or moving targets to be much, much, more of a hunter. To me just sitting and waiting @ the location of a feeder for the animal to return at its prescribed time is not really hunting in my eyes, it more like target practice .</div></div>

All good points, and I'd have to agree with them, I also agree that any legal means should be protected. Hate to see all the Texans angry, didn't mean anthing ill towards them.
 
Re: Deer feeders

LOL... this kills me when someone will pour 12 gallons of manufactured deer piss over a planted bean field covered in scent blocker, but condemn someone else for hunting over a timed feeder.

deer have certain movements... with the vast majority of movement being in the "morning" and the "evening"... setting a feeder up just corresponds to a deer's most common time of movement... not to mention during legal shooting hours.

This holier than thou stance is such a crock of shit. Laws vary from state to state. I've seen people from out west say it's BS to shoot deer from a deer blind.... I'd like to invite them down and see how well their spot and stalk tactics work in zavala county, where you can't see more than 20 feet into the brush at ground level.
 
Re: Deer feeders

I agree that TV shows are frequently unrealistic BS. On any subject.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<snip> Blackpowder hunters say it about rifle hunters, musket hunters say it about in line muzzleloaders, crossbow vs. compound vs. recurves vs. longbow. Where does that end? With a stick or a rock, naked, "That's the way real hunting is done". Someone would still whine saying the only way is to kill it with your bare hands, the way "real hunters" do. <snip>
</div></div>

I think I agree with mavrick10. Using a rifle, shotgun, musket, bow and arrow, spear, sling, sharp stick, knife, or rock is unfair. So is camoflage clothing. Hunt naked. Rassle them to the ground and strangle them. That's how the mountain lions do it. (Grin)

Seriously, I know of a property in the Texas Hill Country where, thirty years ago, the whitetail deer population was way too high and the buck:doe ratio was about 1:4. Hunting pressure had been on the bucks with very few females taken. Maybe one fifth of the deer were exotics, mostly axis deer and sika deer. Originally, the exotics in our part of Texas were stocked on high fenced "exotic" ranches. But, exotic deer get out through holes in fences or when fences wash out when thunderstorms make the creeks and rivers rise. And then they spread across the countryside.

The property was one half high fenced on the perimeter. The strategy was to cut the deer population in half and hit the females hard to move the buck:doe ratio closer to 1:1. Since the neighboring properties were not practicing the same management practices, revenue from the first couple of years was used to high fence the rest of the perimeter. Commercial doe hunts were needed to remove enough does. To make for successful three day doe hunts, feeders were used. Most hunters got their does in the first couple of days. So the feeders were a management tool.

Realistically, in the Texas Hill Country, one can not feed enough year round to "grow big bucks" unless you are running a deer feed lot with small pens like a cattle feed lot. You have to restrict the deer in the feed pen with access to the feed with a high fence. Otherwise, you can't control which deer eat the feed. One would have to put out a tremendous amount of feed if all deer on the property had access to the feed. And the population would sky rocket. So the feed is an attractant to improve hunter success on managing the population. Hunters still have to be quiet, observant, and shoot accurately. For many, the experience is satisfactory.

Does stalking through the brush require different skills? Yes. But the fact remains, keeping the population in check in our area requires using feeders. Otherwise, the population goes way up, then when a prolonged drought comes along, the population crashes.

The exotics and whitetails preferentially eat (1) forbs, (2) browse, (3) and then the exotics eat grass. When times are good, the population goes up. When times are bad, the forbs and browse get eaten and then the whitetail starve because they don't have the stomach bacteria to digest dried grass. The axis and sika deer are able to survive on dried grass.

About forty years ago, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department set up two experiments. They put six whitetail and six axis in one high fenced 96 acre pasture and six whitetail and six sika in another high fenced 96 acre pasture. By "pasture", I mean raw rangeland with a mixture of grass, forbs, brush, and trees.

In the pasture with sika and whitetail, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"From January 1971 through April 1974, the whitetail population increased to 15 and the sika herd increased to 16. Competition for available food became severe between the two species. This competition, combined with a drought in the summer of 1975, resulted in severe white-tailed deer food shortages, and the whitetail population dropped to six deer by the end of 1976. During this same period, the sika deer population increased to 32 animals. In December 1979, three whitetails and 62 sika deer were present in the pasture. The remaining three whitetails died in February 1980.</span></span>"

In the pasture with axis and whitetail, "<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Axis deer populations increased from the initial stocking of six deer in 1971 to 19 deer by December 1975. A major die-off, which reduced the axis herd to 15 animals,occurred in 1979 when the population had increased to a density of one deer to 4.6 acres. White-tailed deer had increased to 11 by 1979, but a winter die-off reduced the population to six animals. The whitetail population was never able to rebuild after this die-off, and a total of three non-breeding animals remained in the plot at the end of 1979.</span></span>"

Link to the full report,

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_lf_k0700_0103.pdf

and an article in the April, 2007 Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine.

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/archive/2007/apr/ed_3/

Bottom line, without feeders to provide successful harvests, whitetails are going to be history in the Texas Hill Country. Thirty years later, the property mentioned at the top of this post has about 65% exotics and 35% whitetails. Harvest this winter was 75% exotics and 25% whitetail. Given a choice of an exotic antlered and an exotic antlerless, the antlerless exotic is taken to try to get the breeding females off the place.

Feeders are used to get as many exotics as possible off the place in the limited time available for hunting. There is no closed season or bag limits on exotics. The Texas Parks and Wildlife only regulates harvesting of native game animals. Trapping was attempted but not successful in getting enough exotics off. Spot lighting at night is being considered. If deer are shot from vehicles, they learn to hide when they hear vehicles coming. Regular vehicles or vehicles with the high chairs.

It may be that, like fire ants and "killer" bees, the exotics are going to spread across the US and kill off the native whitetails. Maybe hunters in other parts of the country should be sending us money to help us bait the deer to keep the exotics in check.

FWIW and YMMV. Time for bed.
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Re: Deer feeders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyle1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good info southtexas

i have never seen that study before... </div></div>

The last thirty years have been an eye-opener.

On the property I mentioned above, I don't know if we are already past the tipping point in losing the native whitetails. The axis are very wary. Most people think they are more wary than whitetails. They are from India where big cats are trying to eat them. Survival means fleeing possible threats.

I've been told that when there is a bunch, at least one is acting as sentry. And if there is something that looks fishy, they don't walk towards it to try to identify it as whitetail will frequently do. They skedaddle.

Due to personal and family dynamics, this winter I was only able to get out hunting three evenings and one morning in February and March.

At a feeder, the first evening, I saw two whitetails, three axis bucks, and an antlerless axis. I took the antlerless axis, which turned out to be a mature buck which had shed its horns. Axis are from the equator region, so their antlers are not managed by daylight and weather like whitetails. It is possible to see mature axis bucks together with some with hardened antlers, some with velvet and some just starting to grow antlers.

The next morning was very foggy, and I saw probably a half dozen deer, including several axis bucks. But the only animal I could see clearly enough through the scope to identify species was an axis with velvet. I suspect the thickness of the velvet is why I could distinguish it, barely. I took it.

In an evening session, I saw an axis doe and fawn. I took the doe and the fawn hung around trying to figure out what was happening. I took the fawn. Later, I saw a whitetail.

Taking a doe and then fawns is a strategy we have identified for trying to control the population. Enough fawns and probably more than enough fawns survive to keep the census counts up. If the census counts are under a desired level, one year of reducing hunting pressure makes a big difference. With a one to one buck:doe ratio, if on average, each doe raises one fawn, the population can increase by fifty percent in one year.

In another evening session, I saw an axis buck back in the brush and another deer but couldn't get a shot.

Some people may think taking a fawn is inappropriate. If one is trying to reduce pressure on the food resources, taking a fawn reduces it more than taking a mature deer, because the fawn will be around for more years. If the fawn is a female, as this one turned out to be, that is even better, since one is removing the fawn and its progeny.

In normal livestock management, the yearling animals are the ones sent to market for their meat. They have reached the point where their weight gain is plateauing. The animals, be they domestic livestock or game animals, are just different ways of getting the forage producing capability of the land to market.

I really enjoy watching the deer. I shoot only for managing the herd. Meat goes in the freezer or to the Texas Hunters for the Hungry program. When I was a teenager, we had venison in one form or another 80% of the time. Regular cuts, ground meat, link sausage, etc. And we didn't complain. At our house, spaghetti and meat sauce had ground venison in it.

I recognize that other parts of Texas or the United States may have different situations.

FWIW and some may legitimately disagree.
 
Re: Deer feeders

axis are great eating though... that's one benefit.

my parents live in Leakey on the Frio, and we usually see jsut as many of not more axis deer than whitetails these days.

20 years ago when they first got the place, it was neat to see the axis deer... now, it's just sad what's going on.
 
Re: Deer feeders

Yes, the silver lining is that they are good eating. And any venison from range forage fed deer is going to be leaner than any beef and will not have the additives commercial beef have.

And the axis meat is not as far from beef texture-wise and color-wise as whitetail meat. So axis meat may be more acceptable to city kids who weren't brought up eating whatever was put in front of them.

And they are definitely pretty. Although some people think the buck's facial markings make them look pissed off.

Time for bed.
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