Gunsmithing Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

[KPK]

Anyone know if there is much difference in these two actions? I'm wanting to get a stock ordered, but not sure which action I'm going with. Be a few months to get an action as well. Which would be the best way to go as far as far as ordering the stock? Will anything on the "gel coated" outter coat be affected? Bolt release??

Thanks

 

[scotharr]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

I've owned both actions: still own a Defiance. Regarding the stock, I would not make any decisions until you know exactly what action you are getting. That way the inletting will be perfect. A good gunsmith can fix a lot of stock problems, but it's better to hand him something that is problem-free.

 

[tmanners]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

The loading port location, bolt handel cut, bolt release cut and the recoil lug locations are all different, the only thing that is the same is the dia of action and the action screw spacing.
Thanks

 

[KPK]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

Thanks for the info guys!

Tom may be hollering soon to get something ordered. I was wanting to ask someone about a #5 brux barrel in the T3. Do you think the forearm would be to wide for this skinny barrel? Also wondering if the RAD badger latch will work on your mini-chassis system? This will be a hunting rifle and the latch may be a little long for my application.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

Here are a few main differences with the Surgeon RSR and the Defiance Rebel, both Short Action calibers. My opinion and experiences.

Surgeon RSR

-Remington Extractor
-(4) 8/36 IIRC screws with a double pinned base.
-Solid bolt, guided firing pin with threaded handle.
-Cosmetic bolt fluing
-Pinned recoil lug
-Side bolt release
-Heavier rear tang

Pro's
-Less expensive than Defiance
-Good company with good support
-Solid action with no major flaws

Con's
-Sharp edges on bolt's extraction can leave a burr and dig into the action causing rough extraction
-Remington Extractor
-Does not use 8/40 screws
-Installing in AICS requires inletting
-Limited to R/H actions I believe




Defiance Action

-(6) 8/40 screws with double pinned rail
-Double pinned Recoil lug
-Superior Extraction
-Can accept AW magazines
-Guided firing pin
-Solid bolt with threaded handle
-M16 extractor
-Heavy Remington Tang
-Side bolt release

Pro's

-Complete action with Rail for around $1225
-Best extraction out there
-Accepts AW magazines
-Superior fire control assembly
-Superior fit and finish from Defiance
-Double pinned recoil lug and scope base
-Great company with great support
-Best looking side bolt release


Con's

-Some consider to be expensive
-Lead time
-Some stocks require inletting around the bolt handle area.




This is just from my experiences and represents my opinion.

Mark

 

[LRI]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

Regarding stock fitting:

If a true 1:1 receiver to stock fit is important to you then order your stock with no inletting whatsoever and get the action that appeals to you the most.

Bear in mind that every stock manufacturer out there has to make a number of stocks to pay the bills. It's unrealistic to think that every one of them will be a mirror fit to the receiver. As good as it may be, something will not blend 100%. That's 12 years of doing this stuff talking, not ego.

Its what lead to me doing all my own inletting work on stocks when building rifles for clients. Plus the action is only part of it. You still have a barrel channel to sort out too.

Good luck.

C.

 

[tmanners]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tom may be hollering soon to get something ordered. I was wanting to ask someone about a #5 brux barrel in the T3. Do you think the forearm would be to wide for this skinny barrel? Also wondering if the RAD badger latch will work on your mini-chassis system? This will be a hunting rifle and the latch may be a little long for my application. </div></div> I need to check to be sure but I think that the Brux#5 is a bull sporter kind of on the small side, some where around .700 at the muzzel. It should still look good with the forend of the T3, but I would not go any smaller than that. Have you looked at the mcs-t? The back of the stock is the same, just a little smaller forend. The MCS-t makes a great hunting stock, especialy with the bigger bell scopes. It will get your head up higher just like the MCS-T3.

Also on the smaller contour barrels with sporting/hunting tapers we will need to know the finished length of the straight shank before the barrel taper. This is from the face of the action to the start of the barrel taper. The brux #5 will probably finish around 2" but it depends on your gunsmith, he should be able to tell you.

No problem on the RAD latch they work fine with the short mini-chassis, we usally have them in stock.

Let us know and we will get you fixed up. Thank you

 

[OKbow87]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

If you go with the RSR set up in the wsm format, it has a sako style extractor. At least mine does, but I am pretty sure they use them on all wsm bolts.

 

[KPK]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

Thanks for all the info guys!

I'm hoping to be able to get an action soon.

Mr. Manners, what is the wait time on a T or T3 with mini-chassis system in a molded color or camo? Is there anyway to request a certain color pattern or are you pretty well only doing what's on your new site?

 

[tmanners]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Manners, what is the wait time on a T or T3 with mini-chassis system in a molded color or camo? Is there anyway to request a certain color pattern or are you pretty well only doing what's on your new site? </div></div>The T and T3 stocks usally run around 12 to 14 weeks on standard inlets, if it is a odd ball it might add a few.

On the molded in camo - As of now we are only offering the mcs-camo pattern. You can pick the colors and amounts that you want to use though. Thank you very much,

 

[slg888]

Re: Defiance/Templar and Surgeon RSR differences?

Ive got both actions, if you can swing the xtra $$$, get the Defiance.