Desert Precision Gunworks 22LR Action Updates
- Thread starter J_D
- Start date
2299 USD. barreled action
if you have emailed us, even asking to be on the list, we have your information for when we send out an email campaign.
we are excited and getting flooded with calls and emails about this product. As im currently trying to fullfill CZ457 builds this month, if I or the ladies in the shop cannot respond or pick up your call, leave a voicemail or email requesting a call back. I'll be in and out of the shop testing our CZ457 builds as well as upgrading our shop as we prepare for new machinery to hit the floor.
THANKS for the patience and support in these exciting times. We are nearing launch ahead of schedule and finalizing a few small changes which include:
Larger port to accommodate 17HMR/22WSM
Setting barrel tennon closer to port opening for easier cleaning and access to chamber
Bore guide for cleaning
Mag buffers to be made in delrin or possibly aluminum
if you have emailed us, even asking to be on the list, we have your information for when we send out an email campaign.
we are excited and getting flooded with calls and emails about this product. As im currently trying to fullfill CZ457 builds this month, if I or the ladies in the shop cannot respond or pick up your call, leave a voicemail or email requesting a call back. I'll be in and out of the shop testing our CZ457 builds as well as upgrading our shop as we prepare for new machinery to hit the floor.
THANKS for the patience and support in these exciting times. We are nearing launch ahead of schedule and finalizing a few small changes which include:
Larger port to accommodate 17HMR/22WSM
Setting barrel tennon closer to port opening for easier cleaning and access to chamber
Bore guide for cleaning
Mag buffers to be made in delrin or possibly aluminum
Thanks for thinking of all the big and little details, like the bore guide for cleaning - it’s little things like that which can make huge difference in overall quality perception for entire “package”.
Did you finalize price for barreled action yet? I would be fine putting 10% down non-refundable unless the price changes. In that case seems like I should have an option to pay the higher price or refund on deposit...
Kenny was burning up the midnight candle getting CZ backlogs out the door and on vacation. He’ll be back next week turning and burning.
The preference would be RimX mags, but the buffer system will work with all of them.
The preference would be RimX mags, but the buffer system will work with all of them.
We provided some feedback on the initial testing. I’m waiting on my action to come back after a full heat treating for the next round.
Will provide some updates soon and you’ll hear from Kenny himself on the latest news for these.
Will provide some updates soon and you’ll hear from Kenny himself on the latest news for these.
Quick Update Fellas,
Have been extremely busy knocking out CZ builds and 2500x builds a long with fighting Meningitis. Slow recovery and low on energy but with little time I had, I did make the revisions on the action to accommodate changes per request.
The barrel extractor cuts are now easier to get to with the action cutout. I did also move the barrel closer to the ejection port. This will allow easy access with a tool for removal of fail to fire cases.
I am also working on my own firing pin assembly 1 piece to be made in S7. Through conversation with experienced folks who went down this road, as well as mine, I do not see a benefit of using half moon or offset firing pins as those who have seen the modifications done to the CZ457. The first batch I'm testing is a half moon, simply because of the ease of manufacturing. These will be compatible to current V22 360 owners. Their has been thread changes through the Gen 1.2- Gen 2.0 as far as sear block thread pitch, So if offered as a replacement, A firing pin and Sear block will be sold as a set. As emphasis, Im still a small manufacture as we expand so any parts made for now will be dedicated to our action demand first. I also am finalizing the Firing Pin Springs for this, these are certified music wire with a compounded spring rate. This reduces bolt lift on current V22's as well as my action while providing consistent 16-17lb striking force. Spring fatigue appears to be reduced due to the compound spring rate.
Its a challenge to design something to be compatible with other products, so focus on reliability has been based and designed around what has the best track record. We had request for scope rail change to 10-40 screws, however, This will not be happening since later designs for our own scope rail will be superior in rigidity using the dove tail as well as 10-40 screws. The 11mm dove tail will also aid us in manufacturing as a machine location keeping our action tolerances tight.
Our Material just hit the floor Friday and currently running action body's. Ill be updating more very soon
Have been extremely busy knocking out CZ builds and 2500x builds a long with fighting Meningitis. Slow recovery and low on energy but with little time I had, I did make the revisions on the action to accommodate changes per request.
The barrel extractor cuts are now easier to get to with the action cutout. I did also move the barrel closer to the ejection port. This will allow easy access with a tool for removal of fail to fire cases.
I am also working on my own firing pin assembly 1 piece to be made in S7. Through conversation with experienced folks who went down this road, as well as mine, I do not see a benefit of using half moon or offset firing pins as those who have seen the modifications done to the CZ457. The first batch I'm testing is a half moon, simply because of the ease of manufacturing. These will be compatible to current V22 360 owners. Their has been thread changes through the Gen 1.2- Gen 2.0 as far as sear block thread pitch, So if offered as a replacement, A firing pin and Sear block will be sold as a set. As emphasis, Im still a small manufacture as we expand so any parts made for now will be dedicated to our action demand first. I also am finalizing the Firing Pin Springs for this, these are certified music wire with a compounded spring rate. This reduces bolt lift on current V22's as well as my action while providing consistent 16-17lb striking force. Spring fatigue appears to be reduced due to the compound spring rate.
Its a challenge to design something to be compatible with other products, so focus on reliability has been based and designed around what has the best track record. We had request for scope rail change to 10-40 screws, however, This will not be happening since later designs for our own scope rail will be superior in rigidity using the dove tail as well as 10-40 screws. The 11mm dove tail will also aid us in manufacturing as a machine location keeping our action tolerances tight.
Our Material just hit the floor Friday and currently running action body's. Ill be updating more very soon
I also got back JD's rifle for eval to see what wear items look like as well as update the changes to his rifle also. This rifle has approximately 5K rounds shot between me, JD and friends, Demo at TX and is in the Raw metal state.
Besides a bushing failure in the bolt stop which appears eaten away from solvent or something which caused the bolt to slide pass the stop, thiers very very minimal wear in which heat treatment and nitride will reduce to zero.
These bushings in the bolt stop will not be in the final release as these where originally designed for M4 screws not M3. The bolt stop uses a concentric cam, this is how I'm able to adjust headspace +-0.005.
For giggles, I shot some CCI SV at 107 yards and these barrels I have are putting out these kinds of groups even with CCI 10 shot and 5 shot groups at 107
Rifle is ready to run a local NRL22x match. Me and my son will be taking JDs rifle out to run a 12 stage and Long Gong match
Details of the match here:
We are giving away a Full Custom CZ457 as I mentioned in previous post. As well as demoing the Genes1s action. If your attending, let me know!
Besides a bushing failure in the bolt stop which appears eaten away from solvent or something which caused the bolt to slide pass the stop, thiers very very minimal wear in which heat treatment and nitride will reduce to zero.
These bushings in the bolt stop will not be in the final release as these where originally designed for M4 screws not M3. The bolt stop uses a concentric cam, this is how I'm able to adjust headspace +-0.005.
For giggles, I shot some CCI SV at 107 yards and these barrels I have are putting out these kinds of groups even with CCI 10 shot and 5 shot groups at 107
Rifle is ready to run a local NRL22x match. Me and my son will be taking JDs rifle out to run a 12 stage and Long Gong match
Details of the match here:
We are giving away a Full Custom CZ457 as I mentioned in previous post. As well as demoing the Genes1s action. If your attending, let me know!
Seeing those CCI SV groups is really selling me on the idea of parting with a Bergara. I’m not sure I can keep 10 on 4” round steel at 100 with CCI SV!
My son ran J.Ds rifle in one of the toughest NRL22 X matches and 20 mph + sandstorm and dirt devils. One stage had a 10in plate at 300 with this rifle being the only one to slap 3 impacts on plate back to back. A flawless victory in performance and proven its reliability with its performance under these conditions.
We ran mag buffers fitted for B14r mags for this match with ZERO malfunctions
We saw every type of failure on other 700 clone actions today. Personally watch a few really good shooter loose points because of these malfunctions with them eating their word stating they never have issues.
I want to thank the folk that came up to ask for a demonstration how the mag buffers work, a quick demonstration of proper controlled round feeding and them also giving the rifle a try. Im still narrowing down some small details in how much ingenuity is involved in reliability feeding one of the hardest rounds from a magazine. Given thanks and credit to the brilliance of MB's V22 system. I plan on sharing a small video that hopefully will shed some light on how the system must function, issues folks run into with compatibility, wrong mag spring pressure cause and its effect, how mag play effects reliability and how our popular universal aics mags can pose issues in reliability in chassis with no standard tolerances, finally, how you can solve some of these issues to help your system
We are running production as this message post. Im excited to show how close we are to final release. The wait will be worth it
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Maybe I'm biased....slightly, but that's one good looking rifle!
Decent looking at bestMaybe I'm biased....slightly, but that's one good looking rifle!
Lot testing was performed on DPG1 Genes1s action today. This is a 24in barrel, first action with approximate 2500 rounds. Results show multiple lots with excellent performance. Showing on par with other builds.
Results at 100 meters:
Results at 50 meters:
Results at 100 meters:
Results at 50 meters:
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Our CZ builds are pretty hard to beat in regards to accuracy. I would say the rival or match the same performance as any of our 22lr builds EXCEPT our 2500x BR builds. We did send one in for the Lot testing also but only had 150 rounds. Lapua recommends having at least 700 rounds and I can confirm that needs to be done prior to sending a rifle in. We've had a few CZ457s in these lot test centers set some records and clients email us winning scores in ARA with our CZ builds pretty often.
Kenny would you comment on the lot testing shown and which one or two you’d pick from and why you like them.
Looks like a few good choices so I’m wondering what factors you deem most important..
Thx
Looks like a few good choices so I’m wondering what factors you deem most important..
Thx
I did a video on this
Refer to 12:54
Determining factor is a lots performance at 100m. Thats why group shooting at 50 yards doesnt tell the whole story IMO
DPG4 was put through more testing this past week and last weekend even won a long going match. It’s out for nitride and will be coming home soon for more in depth testing here in Texas.
Friday Aug 1st was firing pin frenzy day. I spent all day testing 3 different firing pin head designs and spring rates. Every part of this action besides the springs are made in house. Ordered a 4th axis VMC to help production of these small parts, their are over 1200 back in stock request for this action as of today according to our website analytics.
I was surprised my turn mill was able to make these as accurate as they are. With the new VMCs, ill be able to run multiple small parts and not tie up the big machines in anticipation to keep up with production. These are made from S7 round bar tool steel and heat treated.
I tested 3 different firing pin designs:
Cresent/ half moon
Ball point pin (B14r style)
Traditional Wedge (V22 style)
All firing pins had the same protrusion and made within 0.0004" tolerance
Factory V22 firing pin on the left
Our 22lr cases are work hardened near the outer rims, so precaution is needed to ensure the strike is just below the hardened brass and not to sharp to cause rupture, yet reliably ignite the primer without to much force disrupting/deforming the case rim.
Firing pin tuning from my testing is a significant way to tune your rifles accuracy and ammo. Just changing springs rates can tune a specific lot of ammo that didnt shoot well to being the best performer. This is often a neglected or overlooked maintenance item folks forget to change over time. Springs do fatigue over use and time. You can use a simple arbor press and small shipping scale to compress your springs and keep track of spring rates
The results of the Cresent/half moon produced the worst down range results and highest velocity SD spread. I gave this design a try after being told from a manufacturer who makes AR22 firing pins that this design helped increase reliability and better accuracy. I inadvertently had the opposite results with 5 shots from a box of 50 having a failure to fire
I then next tried the Ball Point Pin (B14r style) and found decent results with average SDs of 7-12 but found random flyers with 3 out of the 10 five shot groups
Final conclusion, the traditional wedge firing pin head produced the lowest SD spread at 4-7 and consistent accuracy. I did also see POI shift between all three types of firing pins and velocity swings 10-30 fps, confirming each pin did affect the ammos performance in some way. These small details I'm finding interesting in my personal chase of accuracy in 22lr. I would love to hear your guys thoughts / expirences
I was surprised my turn mill was able to make these as accurate as they are. With the new VMCs, ill be able to run multiple small parts and not tie up the big machines in anticipation to keep up with production. These are made from S7 round bar tool steel and heat treated.
I tested 3 different firing pin designs:
Cresent/ half moon
Ball point pin (B14r style)
Traditional Wedge (V22 style)
All firing pins had the same protrusion and made within 0.0004" tolerance
Factory V22 firing pin on the left
Our 22lr cases are work hardened near the outer rims, so precaution is needed to ensure the strike is just below the hardened brass and not to sharp to cause rupture, yet reliably ignite the primer without to much force disrupting/deforming the case rim.
Firing pin tuning from my testing is a significant way to tune your rifles accuracy and ammo. Just changing springs rates can tune a specific lot of ammo that didnt shoot well to being the best performer. This is often a neglected or overlooked maintenance item folks forget to change over time. Springs do fatigue over use and time. You can use a simple arbor press and small shipping scale to compress your springs and keep track of spring rates
The results of the Cresent/half moon produced the worst down range results and highest velocity SD spread. I gave this design a try after being told from a manufacturer who makes AR22 firing pins that this design helped increase reliability and better accuracy. I inadvertently had the opposite results with 5 shots from a box of 50 having a failure to fire
I then next tried the Ball Point Pin (B14r style) and found decent results with average SDs of 7-12 but found random flyers with 3 out of the 10 five shot groups
Final conclusion, the traditional wedge firing pin head produced the lowest SD spread at 4-7 and consistent accuracy. I did also see POI shift between all three types of firing pins and velocity swings 10-30 fps, confirming each pin did affect the ammos performance in some way. These small details I'm finding interesting in my personal chase of accuracy in 22lr. I would love to hear your guys thoughts / expirences
I am not surprised with the results you saw with the crescent moon shaped FP. Where it struck is right on the outer edge where there is the folded rim and is all metal, no primer pocket and rely on the inner part to compress the brass to ignite the primer material.
I understand that the primer has to be “pinched” to achieve ignition, so if you try shortening the “arc length” and move the strike location “just a smidge” inside the edge of the rim so all of the force is not going onto the actual edge of the rim case, you should see different (albeit) better results in that style.
With all that said, I don’t think (my opinion, no test data) that the crescent moon shape will be optimal.
Same for the B14 ball point. Too much protrusion into the center of the case, where the primer material is inconsistent, will yield varying results along with the circular shape of the FP tip will result in varying surface contact and inconsistent pressure on primer pocket at time of FP impact.
Any thoughts on the shape and location of the FP similar to those that modify the CZ457 so it is a sort of flat square just inside the rim to hit the primer pocket?
I believe I read somewhere (sorry to not be able to cite a source ATM) Eley stated that MV is linked to primer ignition (more that they can control MV with amount of primer consistency).
It is my understanding that with the FP, you want to strike just inside the rim (pocket) to pinch the primer, at a depth that is not too much or too little and enough surface (area not too large or small) to achieve reliable ignition. Location of strike is going to be determined by FP tip and tolerances of FP and bolt FP channel.
FP spring rate will determine impact speed/force.
Depth of impact is determined by headspace, spring rate and ammo case (aka brand), rim thickness (tolerance / variation) and malleability of rim case material at the location and area of FP impact.
This is why custom rimfire builds cost as much as they do….design, development and test validation and QA/QC is not free. Machine tooling to hold tolerances necessary to achieve and maintain from build to build is not cheap or free.
Thank you Kenny for sharing your testing results (good and bad), it’s another testament to why your builds achieve the results seen by your customers and why they keep coming back.
It’s Quality, not quantity that wins the day.
I understand that the primer has to be “pinched” to achieve ignition, so if you try shortening the “arc length” and move the strike location “just a smidge” inside the edge of the rim so all of the force is not going onto the actual edge of the rim case, you should see different (albeit) better results in that style.
With all that said, I don’t think (my opinion, no test data) that the crescent moon shape will be optimal.
Same for the B14 ball point. Too much protrusion into the center of the case, where the primer material is inconsistent, will yield varying results along with the circular shape of the FP tip will result in varying surface contact and inconsistent pressure on primer pocket at time of FP impact.
Any thoughts on the shape and location of the FP similar to those that modify the CZ457 so it is a sort of flat square just inside the rim to hit the primer pocket?
I believe I read somewhere (sorry to not be able to cite a source ATM) Eley stated that MV is linked to primer ignition (more that they can control MV with amount of primer consistency).
It is my understanding that with the FP, you want to strike just inside the rim (pocket) to pinch the primer, at a depth that is not too much or too little and enough surface (area not too large or small) to achieve reliable ignition. Location of strike is going to be determined by FP tip and tolerances of FP and bolt FP channel.
FP spring rate will determine impact speed/force.
Depth of impact is determined by headspace, spring rate and ammo case (aka brand), rim thickness (tolerance / variation) and malleability of rim case material at the location and area of FP impact.
This is why custom rimfire builds cost as much as they do….design, development and test validation and QA/QC is not free. Machine tooling to hold tolerances necessary to achieve and maintain from build to build is not cheap or free.
Thank you Kenny for sharing your testing results (good and bad), it’s another testament to why your builds achieve the results seen by your customers and why they keep coming back.
It’s Quality, not quantity that wins the day.
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That crescent pin may help with reliability, but it sure doesn't help that manufacturer's "match-grade" barrels shoot better than ~3 MOA at 50 yards. One time they sent me a video of some YouTube gunfluencer shooting groups with their barrel and they seemed awfully proud of the abysmal results displayed.
Looking at your pics the only pin strike inside the rim edge is the ballpoint pin style.
With the crescent style pin I think more pin mass weight is needed than can be achieved with this style of firing pin.
Thanks for sharing.
The top row is what I would consider just inside the rim and I've had them just a little more inside with good results.
Bottom row was the standard straight from the factory strike.
I've actually tried this with modified CZ457 firing pins and I didn't see any difference and had some ruptured cases and blow by. Perhaps ill revisit on these firing pins, but I feel some sort of the firing pin should be hitting just below the work hardened edge to prevent rupture just like in your example. I can chamfer the wedge more on the top and bottom to get this strike.
As we know, case rim thickness, unless sorted, can vary +-0.005" or more depending on ammo
Their is a significant feel on how the S7 strikes vs what ever the factory V22 firing pins are made from. In my posted pics, you can see how much heavier the strikes are in comparison to the factory. And the ball point pin strikes way harder than I would like. F= Pressure x Area The same firing pin springs were used and the firing pin compression lengths are actually the same. Only difference between the V22 and Genes1s is the faced flat area where the mag relief is, the Genes1s is longer to accommodate the Rim-X mag. Very interesting findings.
If you have performance gains, please let us know.
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Awesome, yes the wedge profile used is the same as Fig A.
The half moon looks like this
As you've stated the rim is work hardened. Wouldn't the work hardened area be more susceptible to crack and or rupture. I've found when striking inside the rim a lighter firing pin spring can be used because the case isn't as hard. I've never had a ruptured case or blow by so not sure what it would take to cause that, maybe my lighter firing pin springs are keeping it at bay.
You stated the pin strike shouldn't hit the work hardened area and should hit the work hardened area. Not sure I'm following.
Yes case rim thickness varies a lot between the different ammo manufacturers.
Make no mistake about it.......I'm no world beater by any means and hold no records, but I've had some success.
Thanks for keeping us updated with your progress!
Ahhh I see my comment and confusion, for some reason I didn't add "just below" in that comment and fixed it. My apologies. This is an area of malleable but won't allow sharp edges to pierce unlike if a firing pin was to strike like the Ball Point with a sharp edge or wedge. This gives a positive stop for the varying rim thickness. Definitely a fine balance.
I made a few more pins with the top edge chamfered to strike just below the edge.
These firing pins ideally should be made on a Swiss Lathe, had a turn mill guru show me a trick using a eccentric turning macro g code(off center turning) to make this possible to manufacturer on this machine. Im excited to show yall the progress I made so far. I'll post a picture of all the first batch of actions nearly completed and ready for barrels to mount.
