Gunsmithing Designing a Survival Rifle?

[tmcelrath]

I am wondering if it would be possible to build a survival rifle, like the .22 that fits in its own stock, but in a larger caliber. Looking at .223/5.56. I dont care if it is bolt action or semi. I was also thinking about something like the KetTec sub-2000 in .223/5.56. Does anyone know if there is anythink like this out there, or can a gunsmith offer any advice on if it would be possible to build something like this? I have seen the Keltec su16.. Im not a fan of their stuff. I worked at a gun show for a while and their stuff all felt really cheap to me, their shotgun is a step above the rest of their stuff.

I know someone is going to ask its purpose, and it is to keep in a B.O.B, or G.H.B. I like the folding design of the sub 2000, but I like the water tight floating stock idea of the survival rifle.

Any smith out there wann offer a suggestion or recommendation? What would something like this cost to build as a custom project and would you be interested in taking it on?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[RTH1800]

Gonna be tough to beat an m4 for your purposes. No present rifle will meet all of your criteria, but the M4 will meet what is needed, lacks some of the frivolous and exceeds your requirements in areas that you have neglected.

 

[tmcelrath]

I have a 10" SBR'd M4, but its way bulkier than say, the sub 2k. Its also way more expensive and tracked with an ATF stamp. I was looking at something like the survival 22 or the sub 2k because i could leave it in my truck and not really worrk about it. If it got stolen, it wouldnt be AS BIG of a deal as an NFA item. Also i wouldnt have as much invested in it. I saw the Kirafu takedown rifle and it would be perfect if the made it so the barrel, and bolt fit in the stock. But, then again its super expensive. im wondering if I could do it with a savage action, and a 16" barrel, and see if someone could hollow out the stock for me with a mill. Wouldnt care if it was a "custom fit" I could wrap them in a woel or something so they wouldnt bang around.

 

[alpine44]

I am wondering if it would be possible to build a survival rifle, like the .22 that fits in its own stock, but in a larger caliber. Looking at .223/5.56. I dont care if it is bolt action or semi. I was also thinking about something like the KetTec sub-2000 in .223/5.56. Does anyone know if there is anythink like this out there, or can a gunsmith offer any advice on if it would be possible to build something like this? I have seen the Keltec su16.. Im not a fan of their stuff. I worked at a gun show for a while and their stuff all felt really cheap to me, their shotgun is a step above the rest of their stuff.

I know someone is going to ask its purpose, and it is to keep in a B.O.B, or G.H.B. I like the folding design of the sub 2000, but I like the water tight floating stock idea of the survival rifle.

Any smith out there wann offer a suggestion or recommendation? What would something like this cost to build as a custom project and would you be interested in taking it on?

Thanks,
Tim

Depending on what you want to survive here are my two suggestions.

For the Zombie Apocalypse: AR-15 pistol in 300AAC with 9" barrel and a buffer tube assy that can be shot from the shoulder, like the SIG brace or a cut down M16 tube with crutch tip. According to ATF, the design purpose matters for classification as SBR or pistol, not the end (ab)use. Topped with a mini Aimpoint or Zeiss Z-Point this "pistol" is as effective as any SBR while being lighter, cheaper, and less cumbersome to move across state lines. If you add a LAW folding stock adapter, the whole affair will fit inconspicuously into a computer bag and can be carried loaded in your car with most CCW permits.

The entire bag can be made floating by inserting closed-cell PE foam panels if you like to test the fording capabilities of your car or your legs. However, from events I witnessed at glacier streams on Iceland I can tell you that you will have bigger things to worry than whether your rifle floats if you misjudge the depth/flow rate of water.

To get food on the plate: The M6 Scout in 22Hornet/.410 is hard to beat. Following a dare of my nephew, we found out that you can reliably hit the small Tannerite jars at 100 yards even with the rudimentary peep sight and the mitten trigger. In other words, the Scout can divert into your pot any small game that you can spot with the naked eye. With some practice, the choked .410 barrel is equally impressive against flying targets.

I resolved the flotation issue by cutting the outline of the gun into layers of extruded styrofoam (the blue or pink insulation panels). The layers were glued together with dabs of PU foam (window installation foam) and then covered with a light fiberglass/epoxy layer. I made two shells at half of the required total thickness. The shells are glued together at the seam with transparent roofing caulk (Through The Roof), covered with a strip of Gorilla tape. The case can be opened easily by pulling a stainless steel wire out that was inserted into the seam gap before gluing. The idea with the wire was stolen from a compressed sleeping bag that was once stored in the bottom of an ejection seat. Both the sleeping bag pack and the rifle pack are part of the minimum equipment list for my seaplane.

The M6 has put many tasty meals on my plate over the years when I decided to spend another night/day in a remote place. (For the pilots: My flight plans have an extra day or two built in for my own leisure and to accommodate for weather. If things went seriously belly up, the ELT/PLB should take care of expediting rescue efforts.)

 

[RTH1800]

OK, you have put me in the picture. Just use any rifle you want and strap it to your tactical wheel barrow with the flotation tire.

Or simply don't drop the damn thing in the water.

 

[alpine44]

OK, you have put me in the picture. Just use any rifle you want and strap it to your tactical wheel barrow with the flotation tire.

Or simply don't drop the damn thing in the water.

Good, funny point about the real value of a floating rifle.

In case of the M6 Scout in my seaplane I am aware that I have to dive for the darn thing anyway if I ever flip the plane over and survive the event. My motivation for going anal with the flotation case was the Canadian border that I cross often. I do not have any hard proof that the "official" look in blaze orange and with the aircraft registration number stenciled on it made the difference but I never got as much as a second question about the rifle during an inspection.

 

[g2gjoe]

Wilderness Survival Rifles

This is an article on the subject by Chuck Hawks. It's an interesting read and not too long.
That being said, if it were me, I would want an ultralight AR-15 with a Calvary arms but stock. And pencil thin barrel. Ultra lightwieght carbon fiber handguard. Small red dot sight and magpul plastic BUIS's.
JP low mass bcg. Simple 1" nylon carry sling. No frills whatsoever.
This can be made at just a hair under 5#'s unloaded.
A single 30rnd mag or 2 20rnds.
Broken in half & contained in the smallest mole type pouch I could find, with a VERRY simple Otis cleaning kit.
No, it's not good for sustained fire, but is good enough for any situation. You could even put floatable foam lining in the Molle pack.

 

[alpine44]

Couple reasons why I chose the 300AAC and .22 Hornet but passed on the ubiquitous 5.56.

5.56 is way too much noise, gun, and ammo weight for wilderness pot hunting. The .22 Hornet is a very discreet solution especially when considering that ~40gr bullets can still be pushed easily to 2900 fps - even more after a simple conversion to .22 K-Hornet.

During a SHTF scenario I would prefer a concealable last line of defense since running around with a rifle makes you automatically a HVT either for the BGs or the men in uniform. The 300AAC allows the use of a very short (7-9") barrel while still having some stopping power left.

The 5.56 was neither here nor there for my needs despite the fact that I have ARs coming out of the wazoo and shoot them weekly in gun games.