Die problem

[Snuby642]

First time I have had this problem.
Lee 4 die set 308, fl size die setup.
Ram up full contact, 1/4 rotation more, lock down and test on first fired brass from bolt gun.
Slightly above case gauge max, 1-2 thou.

Re-adjust die to 1/3 past contact with #2 shell holder, 0.001 below gauge max.

Most dies I have split the difference between max and min in the respective gauge.

What do I need to check?
Gun is in the shop so could not check in the chamber.
Just wanted to get some brass going, gemtec brass.
Gauge was wiped clean, wax was wiped off of brass.
I watched and with a case in the shell holder and die made full contact.
Turning in the die more would seem? Pointless?

I might disassemble the die and look for? A problem tomorrow.
Suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Snuby642]

May not.be a problem just used to seeing everything in the middle of my gauges.

I keep a gauge on deck as I load to check anytime something feels off as I crank the handle.
When the round is in the middle of the gauge it is easy to see.

Will check a new gmm round tomorrow maybe the gauge is on the tight side.

The fl sized rounds may be stock piled some and want to meet sami on those for shtf. Od lots blems etc can go in a ar or for barter.

Neck size next batch and do ladder test same time on good wind trip.

Plan on matching gmm 168 first and then go to 175 class after that.

New enough to rifle reloading to ask advice on anything different I see.

The fl size maybe used for range brass
We come across as well.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Sheldon N]

I'd suggest picking up a set of hornady headspace gauges and start to measure things in more detail with calipers. Your approach of 1/4 rotations on the die are VERY rough and could easily result in far too much headspace. Target 0.002 shoulder set-back for bolt guns and 0.003 to 0.004 for gas guns, using your chamber and fired brass as a starting point.

 

[Snuby642]

It's my son's 308 and his brass.
He has a lot of first fired FC gmm.

He thinks the neck sizing is what he wants. I vote for fl all the way.

So a side by side test is next.
Aught to be interesting.

 

[Snuby642]

Headspace gauge on the way.
Best I could measure with using the case gauge was 3-4 bump as is set.
But that is assuming the shoulder is resting on the gauge.

The gauge is supposed to be sami right?
Will get better measure when brass is trimmed it is in the way at 2.017.
Gauge is 2.015 on the max length so was having a hard time measuring the base accurately.

Is this not a viable measurement?

 

[DrewC]

I’ll never use case gauges. I have a Dillon for 308 that is so out of spec and loose. I can drop a piece of 1x fired LC brass right in and shake that bitch. Then I have another brand that’s so tight that to get a piece of brass to fit right, the shoulders are bumped back way to damn much.

 

[Snuby642]

Just want to see if my measurement meets safe practice. Possibly not optimal precision at the moment.

All the factory rounds in 223, 300blk, and 308 have been at the very low end in thier respective case gauge unfired.

I attempt to keep automatic rounds in the middle of the case gauge limits and have not had a problem.
As I understand it a field load in a bolt gun should be 0.002 for reliability min and 0.004 for automatic.

Most of the factory rounds have been 0.004 and shorter for.duel platforms with no concern except for accuracy in the bolt guns. Some of them barely touch min in the gauge.

 

[Snuby642]

@DrewC
You are syckic? That case gauge is probably a dillon, son has a dillon 550?
And I did not want to use his dies or press for the bolt guns.

I now suspect the gauge , damn.
I don't want to sit and close the bolt on every round, what do you do?

 

[Snuby642]

The case gauge being off, can I not still compare a first fired and a resized round to each other?

 

[MK20]

I have had this problem before as well. If you have a lee press I can almost guarantee what your problem is unless you have a faulty die set. My cases would have about 20% failure to chamber or tight chamber and I was really confused as to why because my shell holder was making full contact with the die (I thought). I would have sworn to it because I could not see any space with my eye. I would suggest that you look at the metal parts on the ram linkage to the handle, specifically where the square block that the handle fits into goes through the swinging arm. These parts will have a yellowish color to them and appear to me MIM or sintered parts. I had 2 crack in succession on me and didn't realize it. This hairline crack was allowing enough play to make my cases come out like yours, just a hair too large. I got a RCBS press and problem solved. No MIM parts there. To eliminate your dies as a variable, use them on someone else's press with your shell holder and check to see if that fixes it. If it does, your press is the problem.

 

[Snuby642]

So after a fine meal, the food of mexicans, not texmex.
I went to my reloading room at my sons new house, new benches shaping up nice.

Yanked out the 308 die and imidiatly remembered setting up a lee 223 recently.
Without time and willpower after margaritas and mexican pork chops.
I will get to the short story.
Lee die setup instructions suck balls ! And are wrong. !
I did not mince words, wrong and suck.

Pictures, measurements, ensue but not tonight.
The deal is I have 2 sons that read instructions and blindly follow them because
they are in print, from the factory and evidently negates anything an old bastered may figure.

If you follow Lee's directions of setting the mandrell stem flush with the collet holding it
the decapping pin protudes over .25 of an inch ".28".
They do not include tourqe values for the collet, "considerable" is the term used.

This puts the shoulder of the expander lower than the brass interior base at full stroke.
If ienstine 1 or gorilla 2 tourqe the collet down, "so the damn thing wont slip" you sir are screwed. Shame on them for following instructions, shame on me for not checking
the new die first.

3/16, 0.19 sticks in my head for decaping pin protrusion from bottom of die,
no recollection of where that came from. In fact that is more than it takes to get past
the case and also past the shoulder with the expander ball.

Put all 55 rounds in quarantine till I can measure and resize.

I did pull out a fc gmm round and gem tec round to check the dillon case/ headspace gauge.
The gmm was square in the middle, "as I like to see" and the gem tec was all the way
to the long end.

There is 0.015 differance from minumum to maximum on this gauge, seems excessive
to me?