dies and presses

[black_ump]

i have a lee c press the cheep bench mounted press, i really enjoy it, is the press ok ? we all have prefrance and i really enjoy lee products.

i have read that the press flexes iam sure its true but will it hurt me in my quest for match ammo for my msg90 a2 ?

i would like to use a lee full length sizeing die and a redding compition seating die both on lee c presses

my other question being

will the lee full length sizeing die be ok or should i get a compition seating die ?

 

[bohem]

Re: dies and presses

You don't need a comp seating die to make match ammo. They happen to be nice and convenient for dialing an exact load length, but with the lee seaters they are pretty nice to adjust if you do it carefully and with a set of calipers.

If you can see the press flexing it's a bad thing, and eventually it's going to crack. My uncle didn't think it would because "it's fatigue loading, and the fatigue will be like 100,000 press cycles"

5000 pieces of 30-06 later and he had a 2 piece press.

With yard sale season coming up, take some cash and walk through them, you can sometimes find great deals on reloading equipment that way. My rockchucker was a freebie that my dad found at a yard sale. Some adult kids (in their 40's) were cleaing out their parents attic after both parents had died. Neither had a clue what the press was worth, my dad played dumb and got it for "meh, just take it."

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: dies and presses

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have read that the press flexes iam sure its true but will it hurt me in my quest for match ammo for my msg90 a2 ?</div></div>

All presses flex; some more than others. A C-type press, by virtue of the design is more prone to flex than an O-style. Provided it doesn't flex "too much," and the flex is consistent, it's not a problem. Lube and stroke consistency are important.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: dies and presses

If you mean Lee's little "Reloader" press, don't worry about it, it's fine. Obviously it's not as strong as much larger massive cast iron or steel presses but it's a LOT better and stronger than its detracters presume.

I have a "rigid" O frame Rock Chucker I use for most reloading work. Also have two Reloaders, one keeps a Lee universal decapper die and the other has a Lee Auto Prime II (the way my RC handles primers sucks).

A few years ago I got a magnetic base for my dial indicator gage and decided to check my presses for deflection (flex/spring) when FL sizing .30-06 cases. Used the same box of fired cases and same FL die with all three presses. Surprise, the RC deflected .003", not much but not rigid either. But neither of the Lee Reloaders deflected enough to get a valid reading! It would be silly to say the little alum alloy presses are "stronger" than the RC but, within the limits of their strength, they ARE much more RIGID and that makes a difference in making precsion ammo.

Richard Lee IS a great engineer. His choice of materials for the job they need to do is excellant, there's no valid reason to use cast iron and steel for a lot of things. A good alum alloy and plastic is fine when used correctly.

 

[PistonPete]

Re: dies and presses

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All presses flex; some more than others.</div></div>

you apparently you are not familiar with and have never used an RCBS Rock Chucker.

if it flexes, it is about .000000000000000000001"

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: dies and presses

Apparently you didn't read Fuzzballs' post.

And, yes, I'm very familiar with and have used the RC. It's a very good press (at least the older ones were), but not the Lexus of presses, IMO.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: dies and presses

Most folks (if not all of them) who think an RC is rigid or that Lee's Alum presses have a lot of flex have never checked either.

 

[Jer]

Re: dies and presses

I ended up going with a Lee Classic Cast because of the fact that a lot of people said it was a great press (while saying they hated the rest of Lee's products) and was a fraction of the price of other presses that had a similar spent primer system and even less than those that didn't like the Rock Chucker. I was planning to buy the Rock Chucker until I found out they are made in China now. I prefer that the Lee costs less AND provides American jobs. What amazes me is that people are willing to spend more on inferior products to support American companies but when an American company makes a quality product here in the US and it costs less they're quick to discount it w/o even trying it first. I'm anxious to start pulling the lever on this bad boy!

 

[TresMon]

Re: dies and presses


Presses:

Get a really, REALLY WORN OUT ONE. You'll make more precise ammo with it.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: dies and presses

Well, you could get a worn press (if you can actually find one) or you could get a new $220 dollar Forster CoAx that simply holds the dies loosely in a machined slot and then make all the precise ammo you may wish. ??

Fact is, a tightly fitted press isn't needed to make good ammo but a tight press that isn't bored precisely will sure bend cases.

 

[TresMon]

Re: dies and presses


Exactly Fuzz!

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Re: dies and presses

Uh, the Redding UltraMag and the Forster Co-Ax are both C-frame presses. Both are very highly regarded for strength and accuracy. Both also have their linkage arms attached at the top of the C, very near the die, for minimum flex.

Since the amount of force it takes to shove a cartridge into a die is proportional to the speed with which you force it, it is possible to flex a strong press more than a weak press, simply by operating the strong press faster.

There's a big difference between a press that has die float designed into it, and a worn out ram that flops around when you use it. The die floating system does not influence the lateral movement of the die relative to the case. The sloppy ram, when used to force the brass up into the die, will push, not flop, the case off-center due to the handle & toggle on the other end of the ram pushing laterally on it.

Andy

 

[TresMon]

Re: dies and presses


I don't know how you regard the co-ax as a "c-frame", but um "okay." It's a design style of it's own. if compared to anything it's a "arbor" style frame.

And with a sloppy floppy ram on a conventional press.. the chamber of the die guides the brass right up the centerline.

Trust me- a man with an experience has volumes more than a man with theory.

I have had two benchrest competitors come to the machine shop I was employed at and have me (precision) grind down the ram on brand new presses so that the DIE could do the guiding, not a rigid ram do the guiding (potentiall off center to the chamber of the die)

My business is done here.
Tres

 

[black_ump]

Re: dies and presses

well this is all i can say, the lee c press i have seems strong and i will buy another one, and load match ammo on it lol

its really worth every penny i think

 

[TORQ]

Re: dies and presses

the lee is good to go.

 

[RebelRouser]

Re: dies and presses

I just bought a Lee Challenger to compliment my rock chucker as a seater. I am confident that I will be happy! For the price I don't know what to expect. But It is going propabaly going to be relegated to seating duty only. I'm sure I'll be happy with it.

 

[black_ump]

Re: dies and presses

i think for under 35 bucks the lee c press is a steal, and the rgb dies rock

but after carful thinking the redding comp seating die is a must sorry to say but the "false" chamber that holds the casing and the pusher that is ground to fit the smk bullets as well as the mic seating adjustments is just well seems like a must to me its 80 somthing bucks threw midway and ill put it on my next lee c press

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: dies and presses

"it is possible to flex a strong press more than a weak press, simply by operating the strong press faster."

Huh?


"And with a sloppy floppy ram on a conventional press.. the chamber of the die guides the brass right up the centerline...- a man with an experience has volumes more than a man with theory."

Well said. Knowledge is power...but ONLY if we understand what we know!

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Re: dies and presses

Force due to dynamic friction goes up with velocity. Accordingly, it takes more force to shove the brass into the die faster. More force means more flex in the press, and enough more force means more flex in a stronger press.

Andy