Dillon 650 Setup Confirmation/Advice

[N_Turs]

Ok, so I'm working on getting my 650 set up to load some bulk range ammo and some precision ammo. I've been gathering all the pieces I believe I need after searching and watching videos. All ammo loaded will be used in Ar's only no bolt guns for this stuff. Im new to loading rifle on this press but have years loading 9mm on it.

What I have so far-
Dillon 1500 case trimmer
Dillon carbide 223 dies
Fosters 223 comp seating die
Armanov tool heads and lockrings
21st Century mandrel die and Black Nitrate Expander set

I was planning on setting up the one tool head to process which is what Ive see others do and recommend. Making sure I have this correct.
Universal Decapping die
Dillon sizer/Trimmer
21st Mandrel Die

Loading Die for range ammo
Dillon sizer/decapper backed out to just use decapper to clear flash hole
Powder drop with dillon measure
Powder check
Dillon seating die
Dillon crimp die

Loading Die for Accurate Ammo
Universal decapper to clean flash hole
Powder drop by hand with funnel
Foster Ultra Mic seater
Foster crimp die

Any recommendations on the best universal decapping die to use? I know dillon is supposed to be releasing their new version based off of the FW.
I still need to get two of them.
I also need to get something to swage with. Ive heard mixed things about the swage it on a 650. Seems most say its fine as long as you stop if you feel it really bind up.

So my question is, anything that anyone would do differently or change. I still haven't loaded a single round yet. I like to make sure I have everything needed and sorted out before I start something.

 

[Glowie]

I may be wrong but would you want to run the expander mandrel through after sizing case and just before powder drop?

 

[rhinofoot]

Get the Dillon case collator. It just works. Get the Dillon bullet tray. It's a massive chunk of aluminum, rest your left hand on the tray and set the bullets on the case with your left hand. No wasted motion. Get the Dillon toolkit, it's nice to have every tool you need in one place. Buy a spare parts kit. If you break/lose a part, chances are it's in the kit. Then call Dillon for a replacement.

Buy a pack of extra primer pickup tubes. Buy a Dillon primer flip tray, again a massive hunk of metal.

I can easily load 500 rounds an hour on my 650s. That's with no bullet feeder.

There are a bunch of quality of life things that can be changed but not necessary.

Inline Fabrication ergo roller handle is my #1.

If you load lead/coated bullets the custom bullet funnels from Uniquetek are awesome.

 

[N_Turs]

I may be wrong but would you want to run the expander mandrel through after sizing case and just before powder drop?

The Dillon trim die is a fl sizer. From what I understand you mandrel after sizing to get the neck tension set and remove any burrs. Then clean the cases and load without lube on the separate tool head. But I havent done this yet just what Ive read.

 

[N_Turs]

Anyone??? Have any advice or is this about what I should be doing?

 

[RegionRat]

The Dillon trim die is a fl sizer. From what I understand you mandrel after sizing to get the neck tension set and remove any burrs. Then clean the cases and load without lube on the separate tool head. But I havent done this yet just what Ive read.

Yes. In general you can prep on one tool head, then dump them into a bulk cleaning operation, followed by loading on the next toolhead.

Just some suggestions.

Consider an adjustable index/depth-stop to allow primer depth control. Sometimes variations in brass will cause seating depth issues but with an adjustable stop you have options.

Consider that the Dillon trimmer is a straight flat cut. It will leave the mouth of the case sharp on the ID.

In some instances, that sharp edge will cause issues with bullet seating when it scrapes and cuts the bullets.

You can either try to deal with an inside chamfer, or you can run a flare. The flare only needs to allow the bullet to sit and enter without scrape marks and will be gone when you taper crimp or full crimp.

Lee makes a universal flare die kit. Many of us that run bulk ammo use it to flare and avoid needing to manually deal with the chamfer. It is inexpensive and works well. Good Luck.

 

[N_Turs]

Yes. In general you can prep on one tool head, then dump them into a bulk cleaning operation, followed by loading on the next toolhead.

Just some suggestions.

Consider an adjustable index/depth-stop to allow primer depth control. Sometimes variations in brass will cause seating depth issues but with an adjustable stop you have options.

View attachment 8686481

Consider that the Dillon trimmer is a straight flat cut. It will leave the mouth of the case sharp on the ID.

In some instances, that sharp edge will cause issues with bullet seating when it scrapes and cuts the bullets.

You can either try to deal with an inside chamfer, or you can run a flare. The flare only needs to allow the bullet to sit and enter without scrape marks and will be gone when you taper crimp or full crimp.

Lee makes a universal flare die kit. Many of us that run bulk ammo use it to flare and avoid needing to manually deal with the chamfer. It is inexpensive and works well. Good Luck.

View attachment 8686479

Thank you for the advice, I do already have the cam indexing block picture and have been using it awhile now.
In my research I found that people will use the mandrel die to clean the burrs after sizing and before loading. Is the mandrel die not the way to go and a simple flare die be better?

 

[MarinePMI]

Yes. In general you can prep on one tool head, then dump them into a bulk cleaning operation, followed by loading on the next toolhead.

Just some suggestions.

Consider an adjustable index/depth-stop to allow primer depth control. Sometimes variations in brass will cause seating depth issues but with an adjustable stop you have options.

View attachment 8686481

Consider that the Dillon trimmer is a straight flat cut. It will leave the mouth of the case sharp on the ID.

In some instances, that sharp edge will cause issues with bullet seating when it scrapes and cuts the bullets.

You can either try to deal with an inside chamfer, or you can run a flare. The flare only needs to allow the bullet to sit and enter without scrape marks and will be gone when you taper crimp or full crimp.

Lee makes a universal flare die kit. Many of us that run bulk ammo use it to flare and avoid needing to manually deal with the chamfer. It is inexpensive and works well. Good Luck.

View attachment 8686479

The powder measure flares the case...

 

[N_Turs]

The powder measure flares the case...

Isnt that only on pistol cases that the powder drop flares it?

 

[MarinePMI]

Isnt that only on pistol cases that the powder drop flares it?

I'm fairly certain my setup flares the case slightly, but I could be wrong. I run BT bullets though (bullet feeder), so maybe I just assumed it flared the cases slightly.

TBH, my 750 is on an autodrive, so I didn't really give it much consideration, once everything was running correctly and the bullets were sitting up straight.

Great. This is going to bug me now, until I go check.

 

[N_Turs]

I'm fairly certain my setup flares the case slightly, but I could be wrong. I run BT bullets though (bullet feeder), so maybe I just assumed it flared the cases slightly.

TBH, my 750 is on an autodrive, so I didn't really give it much consideration, once everything was running correctly and the bullets were sitting up straight.

Great. This is going to bug me now, until I go check.

Gotcha yeah only reason I ask is I was looking at the conversion kit for the powder drop just the other night and it looked to me that it fit over the od of the neck and doesn't go into the case like pistol stuff. I could be wrong tho I haven't loaded any rifle rounds with it yet. Anything else with what im trying to set up you might do differently.

 

[MarinePMI]

Gotcha yeah only reason I ask is I was looking at the conversion kit for the powder drop just the other night and it looked to me that it fit over the od of the next and doesn't go into the case like pistol stuff. I could be wrong tho I haven't loaded any rifle rounds with it yet. Anything else with what im trying to set up you might do differently.

That's interesting, since I know the .300BO powder drop definitely goes into the ID of the case mouth (I ordered an Armanov one IIRC, because I didn't want to pay for a complete conversion kit when all I needed was the drop tube and the plastic case feed adapter, since I already had the .223 conversion kit).

 

[N_Turs]

That's interesting, since I know the .300BO powder drop definitely goes into the ID of the case mouth (I ordered an Armanov one IIRC, because I didn't want to pay for a complete conversion kit when all I needed was the drop tube and the plastic case feed adapter, since I already had the .223 conversion kit).

Here’s a pic of the inside of an Armanov one I have it might flare it somehow but I can’t see anything that would indicate it’s indexing the drop inside the case.

 

[N_Turs]

One of the things I’m wondering is if the Dillon fl sizing die ran high in the tool head will be ok. Or if I should just get another universal decapping die.

 

[fedupflyer]

The powder measure flares the case...

Not for 223/556
The powder dropper insert does not have ability to flare the mouth.
If anything it a reverse funnel.

 

[fedupflyer]

The Dillon trim die is a fl sizer. From what I understand you mandrel after sizing to get the neck tension set and remove any burrs. Then clean the cases and load without lube on the separate tool head. But I havent done this yet just what Ive read.

Yes that is how it works (mostly) and I also use an 21st Century mandrel to set neck tension.
The Dillon trimmer should give a clean cut, if it does not you either have a build up of chips in side the sizer/vacuum manifold or a worn out/broken cutting blade.
When I size and trim on the Dillion 650 I pause for a couple of seconds at the bottom of the stroke to give the trimmer a chance to do its job.

The swage it attachment for the 650 works OK, its not a 1050 and is a band aid but better than the swaging tool that Dillion sells.
Wished I would have listened to a friend and bout the 1050 instead, mainly for swaging. I do not have the room for another press right now.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the work flow for the Dillion and 223s. My setup is very similar for hoser ammo.
Now you will just have to dial in your dies and process.

 

[RegionRat]

In my research I found that people will use the mandrel die to clean the burrs after sizing and before loading. Is the mandrel die not the way to go and a simple flare die be better?

The mandrel die is a great method for getting the case necks to your preferred diameter after the trim die. The Dillon trim dies can be reworked, but as-is they generally size down pretty well. I use a mandrel to bring them back up a little too. (On brass I want to run longer, I rework the diameter of the trim die so it doesn't overwork the necks.)

As far as the flare, it is just a suggestion and you will have to try this yourself and see if you are okay with the case mouth edge.

 

[N_Turs]

Yes that is how it works (mostly) and I also use an 21st Century mandrel to set neck tension.
The Dillon trimmer should give a clean cut, if it does not you either have a build up of chips in side the sizer/vacuum manifold or a worn out/broken cutting blade.
When I size and trim on the Dillion 650 I pause for a couple of seconds at the bottom of the stroke to give the trimmer a chance to do its job.

The swage it attachment for the 650 works OK, its not a 1050 and is a band aid but better than the swaging tool that Dillion sells.
Wished I would have listened to a friend and bout the 1050 instead, mainly for swaging. I do not have the room for another press right now.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the work flow for the Dillion and 223s. My setup is very similar for hoser ammo.
Now you will just have to dial in your dies and process.

I’ve been eyeballing a newer press but have had this for years and just have been shooting a lot more again so figured I’d load some rifle ammo. The trimmer is new and have a spare cutter so should be gtg.

I’ve read a bunch and just don’t want to miss something I need when I go to load.

 

[RegionRat]

The powder measure flares the case...

On my 204 and 223 stuff, my powder drops are not flaring the mouths the way that my pistol calibers do.

I have been running aftermarket powder drop funnels on these small calibers to avoid powder bridging and have been getting lucky so far.

I have been running mostly boat-tail bullets in these calibers but I was getting some scrapes from the sharp edges and the flare worked out very well compared to adding another chamfer operation.

It isn't an expensive thing to test, so maybe give it a try and see if it works for you. YMMV

 

[N_Turs]

The mandrel die is a great method for getting the case necks to your preferred diameter after the trim die. The Dillon trim dies can be reworked, but as-is they generally size down pretty well. I use a mandrel to bring them back up a little too. (On brass I want to run longer, I rework the diameter of the trim die so it doesn't overwork the necks.)

As far as the flare, it is just a suggestion and you will have to try this yourself and see if you are okay with the case mouth edge.

This will all be for ar’s so basically looking for whatever’s best for that application. I’ve read the crimp should be firm so they don’t move when being chambered.
Any recommendations on ar specific’s I’d much appreciate. I’ll be loading for my bolt gun eventually but want to learn on the cheaper components first.

Is it best to mandrel to the .002 under then add a firm crimp.
I’m assuming that after the neck is sized by the mandrel only a small amount at the top of the neck would be effected by the flair.

Also assuming that the flair would only really be needed if the bullets are getting shaved is this correct or is to assist in centering when seating.

 

[N_Turs]

On my 204 and 223 stuff, my powder drops are not flaring the mouths the way that my pistol calibers do.

I have been running aftermarket powder drop funnels on these small calibers to avoid powder bridging and have been getting lucky so far.

I have been running mostly boat-tail bullets in these calibers but I was getting some scrapes from the sharp edges and the flare worked out very well compared to adding another chamfer operation.

It isn't an expensive thing to test, so maybe give it a try and see if it works for you. YMMV

Did you remove the powder check to add the flair die?

 

[N_Turs]

Yes that is how it works (mostly) and I also use an 21st Century mandrel to set neck tension.
The Dillon trimmer should give a clean cut, if it does not you either have a build up of chips in side the sizer/vacuum manifold or a worn out/broken cutting blade.
When I size and trim on the Dillion 650 I pause for a couple of seconds at the bottom of the stroke to give the trimmer a chance to do its job.

The swage it attachment for the 650 works OK, its not a 1050 and is a band aid but better than the swaging tool that Dillion sells.
Wished I would have listened to a friend and bout the 1050 instead, mainly for swaging. I do not have the room for another press right now.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the work flow for the Dillion and 223s. My setup is very similar for hoser ammo.
Now you will just have to dial in your dies and process.

When you use the swage it on your 650 do you run a die above it. Something like a universal decapping die with the pin removed. I was thinking if I did use it having some pressure above it might help prevent the plate from warping.

I ordered a Dillon swage see if I can tolerate that step. Or if I just get the swage it.

 

[RegionRat]

Is it best to mandrel to the .002 under then add a firm crimp.
I’m assuming that after the neck is sized by the mandrel only a small amount at the top of the neck would be effected by the flair.

Also assuming that the flair would only really be needed if the bullets are getting shaved is this correct or is to assist in centering when seating.

For AR ammo in 223, a lot depends on the bullet you like.

Some popular bullets come both ways, with and without a cannelure. You can play with that and see what version you like.
Personally, I don't sweat the cannelure and don't use them.

On AR ammo, I tend to run a little tighter neck tension value, more like a 0.0030" - 0.0035" than a 0.002".

The flare is very small. Just enough to help with that sharp edge and it is so slight that it practically disappears by the time the bullet is seated.

I tend to run boat-tail bullets, so the flare is more to eliminate the sharp edge than to center the bullet.

 

[N_Turs]

Awesome thank you these are some of the details I was still pondering.