dillon quality ammo?

[dave338]

Thinking of moving up to a Dillon 1050 ,
But have some questions regarding quality of ammo ,
How accurate is the powder charge ?
Is it really a commercial grade machine
Is the trimmer good ?
So far been using a t7 and lab scales , but volume of ammo needed is getting bigger,
Will the Dillon produce the same quality .223 & .308.

Would like to hear from current users

 

[jcdean]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I know you were asking about a 1050, so you can stop reading here if you wish.

My 650 has the case feeder, trimmer, and all the other bells and whistles. I volume reload rifle and pistol ammo on it and 223 and 308 are two of the prime calibers. I have done a mod or two on it that are easy to find on these and other forums and I can load some outstandingly accurate ammunition with it.

The 1050 is considered a comercial machine by the manufacturer. What I have to do using two or more steps on my 650 you can do in one with the 1050. If I was in the market for a new volume loading machine it would be the 1050.

If I was headed to Camp Perry shooting for a prize a progrssive press would not be my first choice for high precision reloading. With my current skills and equipment I do not seem to benifit loading one at a time until I get out to about 600 yds and greater. Even beyone 600 and out to 800 I can still shoot "minute of deer" with my 308 and that is where my interest currently lie.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

All presses are only as accurate as their ability to dispense a precise amount of powder and seat a bullet nice and straight to the proper depth every time.

This is not a usual trait of a progressive press. Speed of loading and accuracy have an inverse relationship. The faster the machine goes the more precision is sacrificed.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

All presses are only as accurate as their ability to dispense a precise amount of powder and seat a bullet nice and straight to the proper depth every time.

This is not a usual trait of a progressive press. Speed of loading and accuracy have an inverse relationship. The faster the machine goes the more precision is sacrificed.

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

what lets it down compared to single stage , powder charge, seating runout etc

 

[NoFail]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what lets it down compared to single stage , powder charge, seating runout etc </div></div>

I think the rigidness of the die insert to the single stage press frame/body is solid compared to the progressive? I use the dillon 550 progressive but for my .308 loads I use like it's a single stage. I weigh charges manually off of a RCBS 10-10 scale and for seating I use a Forster Ultra with the micrometer. I've been using the micrometer to seat every bullet identically at a given depth. A slow process but I'm not into volume. I'm into anal retentive ammo loading and still have lots to learn about that.

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

Reading though the posts it looks like to keep max precision, I will have to run another ,t7 set up

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I wouldn't worry about what other people say and try it yourself. My average .223 loads with Berger bullets & Reloader15 from the 650 were 3/8"@100 yards. My 308 loads are 1/2-5/8 at 100 yards. The most important factor is finding a node and have the powder measure hit the center of it. Some nodes can very +/-.3 and not change your vertical dispersion. The Dillon powder measure will be better than this. I bet most people wouldn't be able to shoot well enough tell the difference if given a progressive loaded cartridge or one from a high end single stage. Just saying...

 

[turbo54]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reading though the posts it looks like to keep max precision, I will have to run another ,t7 set up </div></div>

No.

Progressives load great ammo depending on how you use it.

If you dump tumbled, lubed brass in and start pulling the lever to get loaded ammo out, it will be "good" ammo.

If you break the process up into phases, there is no limit to the ammo quality.

I dump lubed brass in and deprime/resize.
Then I clean
Then trim via giraud
Then dump clean brass in the case feeder and load. I use an RCBS chargemaster. I can load about 100-120 per hour this way

I'd say the 1050 is at it's best when used to make ammo from start to finish in one trip through the machine, which won't be good for quality. If you break it into phases, the 1050 has no advantage over the 650, and is not warrantied nearly as well.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

The press isn't the limiting factor in making quality ammo. The loose nut at the outer end of the lever does that.

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I can easily load over 100hr with the t7 and harrels powder measure digi scales and electronic trickler , so for extra cost of Dillon I would need t,o able to do 2-300 per hr
No Dillon dealers here , but could import no prob very expensive
Perhaps will just have to buy one and experiment,why the 650 over the 1050?

 

[turbo54]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can easily load over 100hr with the t7 and harrels powder measure digi scales and electronic trickler , so for extra cost of Dillon I would need t,o able to do 2-300 per hr
No Dillon dealers here , but could import no prob very expensive
Perhaps will just have to buy one and experiment,why the 650 over the 1050? </div></div>

What is currently limiting your loading speed?

Sounds like it's doling out charges....?

If so, that will continue to limit you. My hotrodded CM1500 limits me to ~110/hr. If I had a 2nd CM, it would double my rate. I think it would take 4-5 CMs to keep up with my 650 the way I run it.

I suggest the 650 over the 1050 because:

1. The key advantage to the 1050 is more stations, so you can do more operations per stroke.
2. 1050 is built a little heavier duty, to handle literally many 100s of 1000s of rounds. Most hobbyists can't make use of this benefit. Plenty of folks have loaded 200000-300000 rounds with a 650. You need huge throughput to justify the 1050.
3. The 650 is guaranteed for life, the 1050 only for a year.

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I like the lifetime guarantee,
What I need is 1000 rds per week of the best possible quality of .223 .308.
In the shortest time , I am thinking that perhaps I should have another t7 running with the Saturday boy doing some more hrs , and experimenting with a Dillon , do you think that 1050 would produce better ammo over the 650 with regards to powder,runout,headspace etc

 

[rrflyer]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

As far as precision the 1050 doesn't have any advantage over the 650.

What quality level are you really looking for?

The biggest problem with progressives is that the powder measure isn't as accurate as single weighing powder charges.

I loaded 300 rounds a couple weeks ago on my 650 and averaged .003 runout.

Headspace you should use a body die then a neck die. Pulling the expander back out through the neck never helps.


If you looking to match or slightly exceed factory match ammo It can be done without single weighing the charges and for that doing 1000 a week would be easy.

 

[steve_podleski]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I use the 550B to load match ammo from 300 to 1000yds. I do weigh each charge. For rapid fire and offhand loads I use the Dillon 'straight' (dump powder without weighing). The ammo gives loads in the teens (benched rifle) at 100yd and sub-minute at 600yds (slinged rifle).

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

If you weigh each charge , you may as well use a turret/single press ?,
How accurate and repetable is primer seating , I use the Sinclair tool to seat them to seat .004" below the case head

 

[NoFail]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you weigh each charge , you may as well use a turret/single press ?,
How accurate and repetable is primer seating , I use the Sinclair tool to seat them to seat .004" below the case head </div></div>

I weigh each charge for the best match grade ammo I can possibly make to my current ability, I'm still learning and just last week I started annealing case necks. It should do me well to acquire a automatic powder charge dispenser when I can. I'm just so anal about perfect powder weight that it takes a lot of time for me with an RCBS 10-10. I'm lucky if I do 30 per hour I'm so slow, but for now that's usually enough for one range session, for me anyway. If I had a single stage I would be happy with it. But what I'm using is dillon 550 and I break up the steps, don't use powder dispenser for the rifle loads.
I ultrasonic clean
lube & resize/deprime
clean again
trim and debur/chamfer (I just got new "Little Crow Gunworks WFT" case trimmer much faster & more consistent, IT WORKS!!!)
weight sort cases
prime cases
weight sort bullets
load one at a time weighing & throwing powder by hand, very slow.
If I need to anneal I do that after ultrasonic cleaning & before
sizer die. I think annealing the necks is the fastest process @ 7 seconds each for .308 with socket in a drill and Coleman camping bottle. My best group the other day is 0.360" from my LR-308 16" @ 100. Now I have to duplicate many of those and prove it. 168 A-Max, 43.6 gr H4895, Winchester once fired 2.008", CCI BR-2, 2.815" OAL
2598 average FPS, ES not so good at all @ 51 fps, but it sure grouped.

I'm just saying this is what I do. I wouldn't expect people to do what I go through.... I think I'm nuts!!! But I'm getting better at it and think it might be starting to pay off.

 

[lachoneus]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thinking of moving up to a Dillon 1050 ,
But have some questions regarding quality of ammo ,
How accurate is the powder charge ?
Is it really a commercial grade machine
Is the trimmer good ?
So far been using a t7 and lab scales , but volume of ammo needed is getting bigger,
Will the Dillon produce the same quality .223 & .308.

</div></div>

Can't speak for the 1050, but I have been using the 550B since the early 90s. With prepped brass and pre-filled primer tubes, I can put out 400+ .223 or .308 cartridges per hour without breaking a sweat.

Using ball powders, my Dillon powder measure consistently meters charges that stay within +/- 0.1 grain. I have not measured the consistency of primer setting depth, but I have never had a problem with high primers -- I do check for that because I shoot service rifles with floating firing pins, and a high primer is a good recipe for an accidental discharge.

I am not anal retentive about my ammunition, nor do I shoot benchrest. If you fall into either of those categories, a Dillon still gives you the option of mass producing cartridges of very good quality when needed, or going the slower "single stage style" to produce cartridges that are absolutely precise.

Your choice really depends on how much precision you need. My buddy uses a single stage press, and does every step very meticulously. I do most of my cartridges "progressive style" using ball powders. We have both shot my "progressive" cartridges alongside his "single stage" cartridges in his Palma rifle. Out to 500 yards, both types of cartridges shoot groups that are indistinguishable and well under MOA.

At longer ranges, cartridges loaded with hand-measured powder charges do better, as do cartridges using stick powder loads. But there is no problem modifying the progressive process to hand-weigh charges. Just remove the Dillon measure and put a funnel in the powder die. As each cartridge arrives at the charging station, weigh your charge and drop it down the funnel. You still save some time by having other cartridges going through the remaining stations as you load.

Two weeks ago I shot some practice groups with the Palma rifle at 100 yards using the progressive loads. They all measured better than 1/2 MOA. Day before yesterday, I shot three three-shot groups at 100 yards with a post-64 Model 70 hunting rifle in .30-06 using progressive loads. Again, all measured 1/2 MOA or better.

For my purposes, that's enough precision, and the Dillon progressive loads let me spend more time behind the trigger than at the loading bench. YMMV

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I think that I will have to stick with the digital measure, mainly use vit powder ,
Looks like a 650 on the shopping list , if it does not work out could always use it for .38/.45pistol

 

[pmclaine]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I load .45 ACP, .38 spcl, 30-06 and soon .308 on my S1050.

I've limited experience with the rifle loads but have produced plenty of pistol ammo. I am confident I can produce a good workable load for my rifles on my S1050. I'll be changing over from .45 to 30-06 soon to tweak what I learned last time I made rifle rounds.

My primary reason for going S1050 was the on board swage and the fact that my job changed to .45 ACP. .45, 30-06 and .308 all use the same shell plate/primer size so caliber changes are pretty easy. I screwed things up buy buying a .38 wad gun I like to shoot. I've learned that caliber changes are not a problem at all but the tool up costs do get expensive.

Anyway I strongly considered a 650 when I would be loading .40 S&W, .45 and 30-06. The primary thought being caliber changes would cost less. Still I lusted after the S1050 though I knew it wasnt going to be cost effective. When my job made a caliber change to .45 ACP I was able to rationalize the S1050.

My point is that if I had bought the 650 I would be making ammo but I would be wondering what life would be like if I owned a 1050. Since I have had my S1050 I have never wondered if life would be better with a 650.

 

[dave338]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I think part of me just fancys a new toy as well ,

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

For BR shooters, progressively loaded ammo is probably not going to meet their standards.

For pretty much any other shooters, well made progressively loaded ammo will do quite well. Any of the Dillon progessive presses can progressively load to that good a standard, assuming the handloader practices due diligence.

Two areas will require attention.

The powder dispensation process does best when the operating cadence is most consistent. It prefers ball powder over stick powder. No automatic powder dispenser will match the precision of individually handweighed charges, and faulting them for that is unwarranted. if you want to handweigh charges on the Dillon, you can, and I often do.

The vertical component of shellplate freedom is critical; it works best with less.

Some folks believe that because the toolhead has vertical play, there's a problem. Not so, because that play is consistent for every operating stroke. It's not harmful, and is probably actually helpful.

The key differences between Dillon models have to do with ease and speed of operation.

The basic and common design features essentially determine that whichever model is being used, they all do the basic reloading operations with the same degree of highly acceptible precision.

Will they make good .223 and .308 ammo in bulk? Not only yes, but Hell, yes.

Will they make ammo to BR standards? Close, but clearly not as well as a single stage.

I load for my .30BR on an RL550B, and the press is not the limiting factor in my FV250 scores. The shooter and the load development carry a much higher proportion of blame for any problems I may be having with the FV250 target.

Greg

 

[leadbullet]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For BR shooters, progressively loaded ammo is probably not going to meet their standards.

For pretty much any other shooters, well made progressively loaded ammo will do quite well. Any of the Dillon progessive presses can progressively load to that good a standard, assuming the handloader practices due diligence.

Two areas will require attention.

The powder dispensation process does best when the operating cadence is most consistent. It prefers ball powder over stick powder. No automatic powder dispenser will match the precision of individually handweighed charges, and faulting them for that is unwarranted. if you want to handweigh charges on the Dillon, you can, and I often do.

The vertical component of shellplate freedom is critical; it works best with less.

Some folks believe that because the toolhead has vertical play, there's a problem. Not so, because that play is consistent for every operating stroke. It's not harmful, and is probably actually helpful.

The key differences between Dillon models have to do with ease and speed of operation.

The basic and common design features essentially determine that whichever model is being used, they all do the basic reloading operations with the same degree of highly acceptible precision.

Will they make good .223 and .308 ammo in bulk? Not only yes, but Hell, yes.

Will they make ammo to BR standards? Close, but clearly not as well as a single stage.

I load for my .30BR on an RL550B, and the press is not the limiting factor in my FV250 scores. The shooter and the load development carry a much higher proportion of blame for any problems I may be having with the FV250 target.

Greg </div></div>
couldn't agree more, I have been loading 1/2 MOA or better ammo on my RL550 for years, quality of components and dies, case prep are way more important than the press itself.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

I bought my RL550B (used) almost two decades ago. It remains my top choice since when I started using it (as a newb handloader).

It has been periodically used to teach/help other newb handloaders, and has also served the reloading needs of an entire shooting team.

I make no comments about any other make/model, but mine will never be on the market in my lifetime.

The Dillons are not cheap, but they are not so much a luxury as they are an empowerment. You get back a big bunch more than you lay out.

Greg

 

[68GT]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

Just a 550, but makes ammo just as consistant as if loaded on a single stage:

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: dillon quality ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the lifetime guarantee,
What I need is 1000 rds per week of the best possible quality of .223 .308.
In the shortest time , I am thinking that perhaps I should have another t7 running with the Saturday boy doing some more hrs , and experimenting with a Dillon , do you think that 1050 would produce better ammo over the 650 with regards to powder,runout,headspace etc </div></div>

If you're going to be loading a thousand rounds of 223/308 per week, I hope you're investing in a Giraud trimmer?

You're going to be spending more time in case prep, than you will in actually loading the stuff up.

Chris