• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Suppressors DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

C

chenha

Private
Minuteman
Aug 12, 2010
37
0
47
Nevada
I have brand new a Daniel Defense 16" with 14" rail and a brand new Yankee Hill Phantom 5.56 which is full auto rated (i dont have full auto...but you never know someday). Looks and feels really sweet. However, after about 20 shots I popped out my mag and noticed that my last 5 bullets were completely BLACK with carbon. Carbon on my glass as well (i didn't mind that as much as how dirty my gun seemed).
This happens with both types of ammo: Federal XM193F 5.56mm 55 grain FMJ and Federal XM855 Green Tip 62gr FMJ.

I have been reading the boards and it seems that the YKM suppressor has much more back pressure. Also many guys indicate that a piston system would keep the dirtyness out of my reciever.

I have no problem selling my can and getting a different one, converting or even replacing my upper to piston. I have done some research and it seems that most conversions would be difficult with the upper rail system that I have. So i may be looking at a whole new upper...or even a whole new gun. I would like to keep with the AR platform and just have a piston version instead of going with a Sig, Remington, or Bushmaster ACR.

Here are some of the suggestions:
Low pressure suppressor
Adjustable gas block
Piston gas driven
Gas Buster Charging Handle

Please weigh in!!!!
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Switchblock
At 185 its not cheap, but Noveske is a quality product. It will limit the carbon, but not completely cure it.
Piston
A Adams Arms piston conversion runs about 379 and reqires the same installation as the switch block.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Shoot it until the gun fails to function. Who cares what the ammo looks like in the magazine.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot it until the gun fails to function. Who cares what the ammo looks like in the magazine. </div></div>

+1!!!!

Any DI gun is going to get filthy freakin' dirty when shooting it suppressed. You can try different things to improve how clean it stays and for how long, but ultimately it is a losing battle.

As for your "ideas"...

1) a different suppressor may or may not help. Some cans will perform better in terms of the amount of crap you get back into the action, but make no mistake that they are all dirty. Since you already have your YHM Phantom...I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy a new one.

2) an adjustable gas block will likely help somewhat as you'll be able to tune your gas system to a more ideal level in conjunction with your can. Most commercially mfg'd AR are WAAYY overgassed anyway which only ads to the crap getting blown back into the action.

3) A piston operated AR will run cleaner than any comparable DI gun...no doubt about it.

4) a GB CH will keep you from getting blowback in your face (diverts it elsewhere) but has nada to do with the amount a crud that gets blown back into the action itself.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot it until the gun fails to function. <span style="font-weight: bold">Who cares what the ammo looks like in the magazine.</span></div></div> For the WIN!!!

Shoot it....clean it....and repeat. Gun Scrubber/Carb Cleaner is your friend.

I've sold every piston I owned...they aren't the answer to keeping your weapon system clean...elbow grease is
grin.gif
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

As far as piston conversion go, I have heard good things about Adams arms, any feedback on CCMG or OPS-416?
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot it until the gun fails to function. <span style="font-weight: bold">Who cares what the ammo looks like in the magazine.</span></div></div> For the WIN!!!

Shoot it....clean it....and repeat. Gun Scrubber/Carb Cleaner is your friend.

I've sold every piston I owned...they aren't the answer to keeping your weapon system clean...elbow grease is
grin.gif


</div></div>

+1 on this. I was very disappointed with my piston ar suppressed. It is just as filthy as my DI gun when shot suppressed. It is cleaner when shooting unsuppressed, but I never do that anymore.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

I dont much care for Piston rifles.

Its YHM not YKM.

Ive never heard that a Phantom is a "high pressure cans" nor have I ever heard that cans very in pressures produced. But that may be something I just havent run across yet.

As said, who cares what it LOOKS LIKE. Shoot the rifle, enjoy it, clean it.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Sounds like the switch block will help. Noveske is well recommended, I have also hear good things about it. Anyone have feedback about JP switch blocks?
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chenha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to admit that these videos are persuasive...
http://www.adamsarms.net/content.asp?content=10
http://www.gaspiston.com/video/ops-416-4-modes-of-fire/ </div></div>

You mean you can't go from unsupressed, to suppressed on semi and full auto without a problem in your DI gun?

Those companies are in the business to sell you piston setups. There are million upon million of DI guns out there that run fine. What if your magical piston gun breaks? I know with a DI gun, I can get parts just about anywhere for it.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chenha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to admit that these videos are persuasive...
http://www.adamsarms.net/content.asp?content=10
http://www.gaspiston.com/video/ops-416-4-modes-of-fire/ </div></div>

They are, which is why I dropped nearly $1500 on a gas piston upper. Now granted, when firing unsuppressed my piston gun stays a lot cleaner than the DI gun. However, when shooting suppressed the blowback on my piston gun is just as bad as my DI gun. Remember that the blowback primarily comes from the chamber and not the gas tube.

I like my piston gun, but it was far from the magic pill that solved all the problems a suppressor brings to the table.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

As previously stated, there is nothing wrong with DI.
I took a long hard look at the piston setups and came to the same conclusions that DK & others have.

IMO, the Noveske Switch Block in a more appealing solution than a piston kit.
The M84 Gas Buster is a given.
(After using one for a few years, I wouldn't recommend going without.)

FWIW, there are other factors that contribute to gas blowback as well.
Contaminates such a oils in the suppressor & mount are the prime suspects.
Washing with piping hot water & Dawn dish detergent make a huge difference.
(Be sure to agitate, rinse well, and dry.)
Another member recommended it to me and I am happy that I did.
It is free and fairly painless to do.

If all else fails, only use your can on windy days...
wink.gif
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

I just posted this on another related thread:
This is where I am coming from. I have a few ARs in the vault in various basic configurations, several stripped lowers, and a variety of parts kits and spare parts. My desire is to have one AR that is "souped-up" and shoot better, straighter, and cleaner. I have a nicer stock, barrel, rail, and eotech sights. If a piston conversion gives me some of that, then why not go for it (assuming $ is not a deterrent)? It has to be somewhat clearer.
Besides, From what I can tell,I could always switch back.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chenha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a piston conversion gives me some of that, then why not go for it (assuming $ is not a deterrent)? It has to be somewhat clearer.
Besides, From what I can tell,I could always switch back. </div></div>Sounds like you made up your mind already, so commit and go with it. We all posted our recommendations for a take it/leave it option...grab yourself a piston rifle and let's here some feedback once you have some serious rounds through it.

...but

Be sure to put some serious rounds through it before posting an AAR, because sometimes the "honeymoon phase" with guns doesn't last long
grin.gif
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

ha, not totally committed, but you can see where i am leaning.
I definately agree, the honneymoon phase. I may just have to keep this the way it is and maybe get a Sig 556 or a Rem/Bushmaster ACR too.....
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

I run a LWRC M6A3, still gets dirty suppressed. I've come to terms with "dirty." Haven't cleaned it in months, and won't until I can discern that it's slowing down. Even then I'll probably just lube it and go!
smile.gif
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

I have this same suppressor and it really had a lot of gas blowback before I switched to a heavier machine gun bolt carrier and added a heavy buffer. It really slowed the action down so the gas had more time to escape out the can. It is still dirty but I am not getting nearly as much gas coming out of the ejection port.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Different suppressors will produce different degrees of carbon build up in your rifle. They all produce it, in DI and piston. You just need to decide how many working parts you want. Example, the SF 556SA produces less carbon build up then an AAC M4/2000. I can speak to this personally, though they both get dirty, the AAC gets dirty much quicker. This is due to back pressure created, and blow back. Not a big deal, just needs a good scrubbing.

F/A cans, which are very common on AR's will create more back pressure than single point cans of similar size, and reflex cans will have less than non-reflex types, ie: AAC M4/SPR and the SF 556AR will create less back pressure than the M4/2000 and SF556SA because they go back over the barrel. Same with Ops Inc, they are single point and reflex, which create less back pressure and have a tighter seal due to the threaded attachment point.

There are also those that proport the difference in flash hiders and brakes, believing that the break acts like a buffer to the blast baffle. The jury is still out on that one for me.

In regards to the Switch Block, they work very well, the reason for this is because commercial barrel makers want them to work. So they make sure the ports are wide open for universal reliability. Custom barrels like Noveske are more in tune to specific function. The only issue with the Switch Block is making sure you switch it. A single shot AR is kinda pointless, but it is no difference than having a barrel ported down for supressed use and taking the suppressor off and expecting it to fuction the same.

In short, the gun is going to get dirty, and there are many variables that cause it. Get use to it and go shoot.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Witch Doctor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



There are also those that proport the difference in flash hiders and brakes, believing that the break acts like a buffer to the blast baffle. The jury is still out on that one for me.

</div></div>

Here is some proof.
DSC01178.jpg


Ops Inc brake for my 12th on a 18" barrel with about 6-7K rounds down the tube, most of it suppressed. If you look at the suppressor there is 0 erosion on the stainless baffles. I tried to take a pic of it, but it's hard to focus in on a dark hole.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Great picture Baccarat, understanding that Ops Inc supplies Brake and Collar with their cans, its hard to get a good baseline on that one, especially since they are putting out flash hiders as an option. I have an Ops Inc 15th and love it, just don't think thats a good offering for the arguement, when most all the other companies offer flash hiders predominantly. The statements that look funny to me are the ones regarding longevity increases, it may very well increase it, but to what degree? There hasn't been anything very hard and fast one way or the other, its kinda of like Db reduction claims.

M1Garand, the BARF.com thread just shows me a picture of brake and the outside of the Blast baffle. The second post on that thread is a guy using a HALO with no signs of wear either, and they utilize the original birdcage. The arguement still cycles back to all the variables mentioned above.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Well here is a thread where the user put 2,000 rounds through a 10.5 inch barrel with an M4-2k mounted. Scroll down and see the pics of what his blast baffle looks like. Now granted, I'd like to see pics of another can with the same number of rounds and the same length barrel but with a break installed.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=64076
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1garand30064</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well here is a thread where the user put 2,000 rounds through a 10.5 inch barrel with an M4-2k mounted. Scroll down and see the pics of what his blast baffle looks like. Now granted, I'd like to see pics of another can with the same number of rounds and the same length barrel but with a break installed.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=64076 </div></div>

I have seen that thread, my question would be what ammunition, barrel length, and rates of fire, again the variables. Obviously the harder you use it, the more errosion you will have: ie shorter barrel, FA, or dirty ammunition. I will use my Ops Inc for example, it is rated for 30,000 rounds; will the brake extend its life for 10 rounds, 100 rounds, or 1,000 rounds? I don't think, or at least I haven't seen any definitive answers as to flash hider or brake, that being said suppressors are perishable, they won't last forever.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

How could a brake NOT help preserve the blast baffle? It's common sense. Once enclosed in the suppressor, the brake BECOMES the blast baffle.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

I have a 11.5 in Colt commando with the yhm phantom. Very dirty but I like it. I bought a gas buster handle to keep some of it out of my face. It works a lot better than shooting without one.
 
Re: DIRTY DIRTY AR-15 w/ YHM Phantom Suppressor

Tompdw, have you thought about getting an adjustable gas block installed?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
.300BLK Piston Operated Rifle Build
Replies
23
Views
410
ut755ln
ut755ln
carbonbased
Broken-down man wants gas+dB AR suppressor advice
Replies
41
Views
1K
Inline6
I
PBWalsh
SOLD FS: Aero/BCM/Triarc Upper
Replies
0
Views
75
PBWalsh
PBWalsh
F
SIG 716i Tread sticky bolt.
Replies
19
Views
686
Ernest 5.56
Ernest 5.56
NGCSUGrad09
Firearms Custom JP LTI-23 6.5 Creedmoor, OD Green, Proof Carbon Barrel
Replies
2
Views
264
Sendero_Man
Sendero_Man
Top Bottom
Back