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Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

B

Blue3Bravo

Private
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2010
32
0
53
PA
Like a kid at xmas I anxiously awaited the arrival on my new reloading setup all last week. Last night I put together my first batch of reloads ever and ran off to the range as soon as I was done work today. Of course I wasn’t expecting perfection with the first try but I was rather dismayed by the results.

I put together two boxes of reloads all seemed difficult to chamber & close the bolt (more so on the first box of 20) including two rounds that I could not close and had to discard. And the kick was ungodly, first time I was looking forward to leaving the range and coming home to the wife.

I thought I researched it pretty well and started with the most recommended components and recipe. Perhaps someone can provide some advice and let me know what to check & change.

Components

168g Sierra HPBT
Once Fired Federal casings
IMR 4064
Wolf Primers

1st Box of 20
43g
OAL 1.78

2nd Box of 20
43.5
OAL 1.8

From what I can tell 43.5 seems the most common fill here. I read some past posts stating the results of disassembled Federal rounds ranging from 42.5 to 43.5, the half box I disassembled last week though averaged at 40g per round. Figured I would be safe starting at 43g.

Is it just the amount of powder causing so much kick (I wouldn’t think so) or something I’m doing wrong with the sizing & seating?

I wont even mention my shot groups although that was most likely me just fighting the kick of each shot even though I was concentrating on a good tight hold.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Er... what caliber is this?

Not sure what bullet uses 1.78 OAL and 168 HPBTs.

Sounds like what you need to do is full size based on your chamber once, then after that neck sizing works the best. This will fix your hard to close bolt problem.

The ungodly kick I'm not sure of, as I don't know the cartridge.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Blue,

Hard to know where to begin, except at the beginning.

1) What caliber? 308 win? Something else?

2) Once fired Federal cases, but were they fired in your rifle?

3) If they were fired in your rifle, did you:

FL re-size them
Partially re-size them
or what....

4) After you re-sized the first one, did you clean off the lube and test it in your rifle? Test your first re-sized case let's you know if you sized it too much or too little. That way you'll know if they will fit, before you put in primer, powder, and bullet.

5) COAL on a 308 is generally around 2.80". Are you sure yours are 1.80"?

6) The starting load per Hodgdon with 4064 and 168 grain bullet is 41.5 grains and a COAL of 2.800". That's were you should be starting, not at 43 grains. Just because everybody uses 43 or 43.5, does not mean you start there. Their favorite recipe does mean you are free to start your loading there. It means you work up from below, and carefully work up to 43.5 grains or whatever.

7) Recoil is a by product of your ejecta mass (powder and bullet) and your velocity. If it's pounding you, then your velocity is up there.

That's all I have time for right now. PM on it's way.

Bob
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

READ YOUR MANUAL. 43.5 is over loaded. Not a starting load. Second error. If you can't chamber a round don't fire it. Did I mention the loading manual. READ IT AGAIN. Size your shells. What caliber? What gun? Bolt actions can go a little hot, semi auto you'll beat the crap out of. Set your dies, there are instructions.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

I would recommend getting a .308 case gauge. You insert a sized case into the case gauge and the end of the gauge is stepped so you can see if your sized case meets SAAMI spec minimum or maximum headspace. The other end of the gauge tells you if your cases are longer than the spec'd maximum case length. These are some available gauges that would work well:

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25547/catid/3/Dillon_Rifle_Case_Gages

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25549/catid/3/L_E__Wilson_Case_gages

When people say you can neck size your cases, they mean that if the case is fired in a rifle, you can set your sizing die to size the neck and not bump the shoulder of the case back. Or you can used a special neck sizing die to only size the case neck. Neck sizing only works if your going to shoot those cases in the same rifle it was previously fired in. I load my .308 loads for multiple rifles, so I have to full length size the cases.

As the previous poster said, excessive recoil is a sign of high pressures and high velocities. 43.5 gr. of 4064 behind a Sierra 168 should not be a hot load, but high recoil indicates your loads were pretty hot. Another cause of this could be if your case length is too long. When excessively long cases are chambered in a rifle, the end of the case rams into the end of the chamber, which also makes it hard to close the bolt. When a long case is rammed into the end of the chamber, the effect is like crimping the end of the case which would cause higher pressures.

In your case, since your bolt was difficult to close at best, you have not adequately resized your cases or your case length is too long. If the case is too long, the fix is to use a case trimmer to trim the cases. If the case is inadequately resized the fix is to use a case gauge to help set the resizing die.

NOTE: 43.5 gr. of 4064 is NOT above the maximum according to Hodgdon's reloading data center:

http://data.hodgdon.com

While 43.5 gr is not the lowest recommended starting load, it is not even close to Hodgdon's maximum of 45.9 grains in a compressed load. By all rights, this combination of powder charge/bullet/primer should be a safe load.

I use a decades old tried and true recipe of 42.0 of IMR 4064, Sierra 168, CCI LR primer, and Lake City Match cases and it's nowhere near a maximum load. Keep in mind that Lake City cases have less capacity than Federal so my recipes have to use less powder for the same pressure as if I used commercial cases.

I still say the most likely causes of the OP's problems are excessively long cases combined with inadequate resizing. It would be helpful to know if the cases were once fired in the same rifle, if the cases had been trimmed, and what kind of rifle they were fired in.

To the OP I would also say that dissassembling factory loads and using that as a suggested charge weight for your own handloads is a VERY BAD IDEA. First, you have no way of knowing what powder a manufacturer used. Second, factory loads do not use canister grade powders meaning that the manufacturer will buy a huge lot from the powder supplier which may or may not be close to a commercially available reloading powder. The manufacturer then tests the load for velocity and pressure and adjusts it to get the velocity they want within the pressure parameters they want.

For us reloaders, we can use a chronograph to measure velocities of our loads but almost none of us have the equipment to measure chamber pressures. What we watch for in pressure signs like excessively flattened primers, extractor/ejector smudges on the case head, etc. are good things to watch for, but they are not 100% reliable. Sometimes high pressure loads will NOT give you those indicators.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

There is a lot of good advice here but for a first time loader the best advice is to read your loading manual. After you size your first shell check it's length then chamber it. That is your gauge. Then make a dummy round, no primer or powder. Now chamber it. If your shell chambered but your dummy doesn't you are distorting the neck when you seat your bullet. Once your dies are set keep on loading. If you loading for a bolt action you can neck size the shells you shot in your rifle. If loading for a semi auto, full size them.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blue3Bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like a kid at xmas I anxiously awaited the arrival on my new reloading setup all last week. Last night I put together my first batch of reloads ever and ran off to the range as soon as I was done work today. Of course I wasn’t expecting perfection with the first try but I was rather dismayed by the results.

I put together two boxes of reloads all seemed difficult to chamber & close the bolt (more so on the first box of 20) including two rounds that I could not close and had to discard. And the kick was ungodly, first time I was looking forward to leaving the range and coming home to the wife.

I thought I researched it pretty well and started with the most recommended components and recipe. Perhaps someone can provide some advice and let me know what to check & change.

Components

168g Sierra HPBT
Once Fired Federal casings
IMR 4064
Wolf Primers

1st Box of 20
43g
OAL 1.78

2nd Box of 20
43.5
OAL 1.8

From what I can tell 43.5 seems the most common fill here. I read some past posts stating the results of disassembled Federal rounds ranging from 42.5 to 43.5, the half box I disassembled last week though averaged at 40g per round. Figured I would be safe starting at 43g.

Is it just the amount of powder causing so much kick (I wouldn’t think so) or something I’m doing wrong with the sizing & seating?

I wont even mention my shot groups although that was most likely me just fighting the kick of each shot even though I was concentrating on a good tight hold.
</div></div>


Wow.....Let me ask and I am not trying to be rude or anything but.....Should you be reloading? Reloading is a great way to reduce cost of shooting and to get the most accuracy out of your rifle but only careful, cautious, and detail minded people should reload.

A detailed person who is both cautious and careful would:

1) have checked each reload individually to make sure they are within specification and function properly (ie. chamber properly).

2) read a reloading manual carefully and follow the steps to the letter to create accurate reloads but above all else to avoid injury or death to one self or others around.

3) at the very least be detailed enough to know that 1.8" is not the COAL for a 308 round.

4) have STOPPED shooting the moment a round felt too powerful because that usually means something is wrong.

5) never have even shot a hard to close round since that can lead to dangerous pressure level situations.


You have shown us that you are careless and pay no attention to detail with your statements about shooting on hard to close bolts; continue shooting even though you thought something was wrong with the load you made; and the fact you published the COAL incorrectly.

FIRST buy yourself a reloading guide, Lyman makes a good one detailing the steps of SAFE reloading and what each step is for to maintain safety. Read the guide many many times until you can recite the steps and sub steps. Pay closer attention to detail and be more cautious for yourself and others around you. Firearms accidents are no joke and many times end up being DEADLY accidents.

Shoot safe, reload safe, and stay safe.

Gene
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: repiv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That must be 2.78 & 2.8 ??? </div></div>

Sorry for the typos. Yes I meant 2.78 & 2.8
308 bolt
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blue,

Hard to know where to begin, except at the beginning.

1) What caliber? 308 win? Something else?

2) Once fired Federal cases, but were they fired in your rifle?

3) If they were fired in your rifle, did you:

FL re-size them
Partially re-size them
or what....

4) After you re-sized the first one, did you clean off the lube and test it in your rifle? Test your first re-sized case let's you know if you sized it too much or too little. That way you'll know if they will fit, before you put in primer, powder, and bullet.

5) COAL on a 308 is generally around 2.80". Are you sure yours are 1.80"?

6) The starting load per Hodgdon with 4064 and 168 grain bullet is 41.5 grains and a COAL of 2.800". That's were you should be starting, not at 43 grains. Just because everybody uses 43 or 43.5, does not mean you start there. Their favorite recipe does mean you are free to start your loading there. It means you work up from below, and carefully work up to 43.5 grains or whatever.

7) Recoil is a by product of your ejecta mass (powder and bullet) and your velocity. If it's pounding you, then your velocity is up there.

That's all I have time for right now. PM on it's way.

Bob



</div></div>

Hi Bob:

01) Yes 308 Win
02) Yes fired from my own rifle
03) Using a Dillon 550b, first station is supposed to resize. Checked in case gauge and looks correct
04) No I did not but will try
05) Typo - meant 2.8 - sorry
06) Yes will start back at the min, thought I was safe in between IMR-4064 40 to 45 though
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">READ YOUR MANUAL. 43.5 is over loaded. Not a starting load. Second error. If you can't chamber a round don't fire it. Did I mention the loading manual. READ IT AGAIN. Size your shells. What caliber? What gun? Bolt actions can go a little hot, semi auto you'll beat the crap out of. Set your dies, there are instructions. </div></div>

Definitely will reread
43.5 overloaded? It lists a max of 45? However I will start back with the min

Caliber 308, gun Rem 700
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would recommend getting a .308 case gauge. You insert a sized case into the case gauge and the end of the gauge is stepped so you can see if your sized case meets SAAMI spec minimum or maximum headspace. The other end of the gauge tells you if your cases are longer than the spec'd maximum case length. These are some available gauges that would work well:

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25547/catid/3/Dillon_Rifle_Case_Gages

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25549/catid/3/L_E__Wilson_Case_gages

When people say you can neck size your cases, they mean that if the case is fired in a rifle, you can set your sizing die to size the neck and not bump the shoulder of the case back. Or you can used a special neck sizing die to only size the case neck. Neck sizing only works if your going to shoot those cases in the same rifle it was previously fired in. I load my .308 loads for multiple rifles, so I have to full length size the cases.

As the previous poster said, excessive recoil is a sign of high pressures and high velocities. 43.5 gr. of 4064 behind a Sierra 168 should not be a hot load, but high recoil indicates your loads were pretty hot. Another cause of this could be if your case length is too long. When excessively long cases are chambered in a rifle, the end of the case rams into the end of the chamber, which also makes it hard to close the bolt. When a long case is rammed into the end of the chamber, the effect is like crimping the end of the case which would cause higher pressures.

In your case, since your bolt was difficult to close at best, you have not adequately resized your cases or your case length is too long. If the case is too long, the fix is to use a case trimmer to trim the cases. If the case is inadequately resized the fix is to use a case gauge to help set the resizing die.

NOTE: 43.5 gr. of 4064 is NOT above the maximum according to Hodgdon's reloading data center:

http://data.hodgdon.com

While 43.5 gr is not the lowest recommended starting load, it is not even close to Hodgdon's maximum of 45.9 grains in a compressed load. By all rights, this combination of powder charge/bullet/primer should be a safe load.

I use a decades old tried and true recipe of 42.0 of IMR 4064, Sierra 168, CCI LR primer, and Lake City Match cases and it's nowhere near a maximum load. Keep in mind that Lake City cases have less capacity than Federal so my recipes have to use less powder for the same pressure as if I used commercial cases.

I still say the most likely causes of the OP's problems are excessively long cases combined with inadequate resizing. It would be helpful to know if the cases were once fired in the same rifle, if the cases had been trimmed, and what kind of rifle they were fired in.

To the OP I would also say that dissassembling factory loads and using that as a suggested charge weight for your own handloads is a VERY BAD IDEA. First, you have no way of knowing what powder a manufacturer used. Second, factory loads do not use canister grade powders meaning that the manufacturer will buy a huge lot from the powder supplier which may or may not be close to a commercially available reloading powder. The manufacturer then tests the load for velocity and pressure and adjusts it to get the velocity they want within the pressure parameters they want.

For us reloaders, we can use a chronograph to measure velocities of our loads but almost none of us have the equipment to measure chamber pressures. What we watch for in pressure signs like excessively flattened primers, extractor/ejector smudges on the case head, etc. are good things to watch for, but they are not 100% reliable. Sometimes high pressure loads will NOT give you those indicators. </div></div>

Great info, thanks m1
I do have a case gauge, thats what's surprising me it seems to meet specs
And no, I wasnt trying to emmulate the dissasembeled fed's, just curious to the weights since I was seeing people not posting the same results
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a lot of good advice here but for a first time loader the best advice is to read your loading manual. After you size your first shell check it's length then chamber it. That is your gauge. Then make a dummy round, no primer or powder. Now chamber it. If your shell chambered but your dummy doesn't you are distorting the neck when you seat your bullet. Once your dies are set keep on loading. If you loading for a bolt action you can neck size the shells you shot in your rifle. If loading for a semi auto, full size them. </div></div>

Thanks and will give it a try
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are running IMR 4064 through the dillion measure - STOP. </div></div>

Yes I was. Is this in reference to inconsistent powder drops? I did check each and weigh it and was getting pretty consistent results
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

did you zero your powder scale, before you started weighing charges. pm sent

josh
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Yes I did

I think the problem is in the sizing but I'm just not seeing it, it looks like a good fit to the gauge.

And note: I'm not touching anything else till a ton more reading is done. Thanks everyone for the help/advise it is helping.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Thanks again RJ

I'll be sure to measure each round until the jug is done and then try a brand as you suggest.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Just to add, I was weighing about every 3-4 rounds and the results did seem pretty consistent but again I will do as suggested and weigh every one
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blue3Bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to add, I was weighing about every 3-4 rounds and the results did seem <span style="font-weight: bold">pretty consistent</span> but again I will do as suggested and weigh every one </div></div>

What do you consider to be pretty consistent?

Ditch the measure and hand weigh each load on a good balance/scale. Sure, it takes a bit longer but you can eliminate inconsistencies and another variable this way.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Most were dead on, a few were +/- 0.1 and a couple were +/- 0.2. In the future I will weigh each round but for the first batch of reloads I wasnt worried to much for match grade consistency and I didnt think it was a large enough variance to cause any worry.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

And this is <span style="font-weight: bold">exactly</span> why a progressive reloading setup is NOT particularly well suited to a novice reloader.

As to recommendations to correct your issue, there seems to be enough of it already covered, so I won't muddy the waters more with my comments...
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

When I started and I still do some times. I re-size the brass and I chamber one every so often to make sure there are no issues. I also chamber a loaded round now and then to assure everything is working. It is like the old carpenter adage "... measure twice and then cut once." Read the manuals and don't be afraid to ask questions, there is alot of knowledge here. I have learned alot on this site and I am old. Wear eye protection along with your heasring protection on the firing line.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blue3Bravoquote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Definitely will reread
43.5 overloaded? It lists a max of 45? However I will start back with the min

Caliber 308, gun Rem 700

</div></div>

I was looking at Sierra's data. Hodgdon does list a heavier charge.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

all I have to say is buy and READ 1 or 2 reloading manuals , work up a load to find your own max don't just use someone else's recipe the first try... lucky you still have a face. Size your cases right, you should have realized that you did something wrong when the cases would not and where hard to chamber. not to be an ass but,…do it right the first time... take the time it takes to do it right or don't do it at all.


nuff said.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Hi Blue,

I started reloading for my .308 within the past year, and my first press was also a Dillon 550b. I don't claim to know as much as some of the "graybeards" on the board, let alone everything, but I thought I'd share a couple of ideas I found helpful.

First, I bought my Dillon because it was well-made, highly recommended, and can potentially save a lot of time. I do love the press. However, I quickly learned that starting out with a progressive just means that you have to be that much more careful to not make mistakes. Plus, the setup time may not be worth it when you are trying to do your initial load development. Bottom line, I now use it as a single-stage press as often as not, and I hand weigh my charges most of the time.

Second, just as an added check, I like to sort and weigh everything (bullets, primed cases, etc.) Then I weigh my finished cartridges and compare their weights to the sum of the component weights. While not foolproof, this should help tell me if I've forgotten to charge a case, made a big mistake weighing powder, etc.

Third, it sounds like you may be having trouble with cartridge length. For what it's worth, my Sierra data also shows a C.O.A.L. of 2.800" for a 168 gn SMK (it also lists 4064 charge weights as ranging from 37.8 to 43.4). However, I borrowed a good tip from the Hornady manual, I believe it was. Gather up your rifle, a fired case, a bullet, a felt tip marker, calipers, and a pair of pliers. Use the pliers to crimp the case mouth just enough that it will lightly hold your bullet. Then color the bearing surface of the bullet with the marker. Insert the bullet into the case (no primer or powder!!!), leaving it maybe a couple tenths longer than recommended COAL. Carefully chamber the round, then extract it. This should force the bullet into the case such that it is just touching your rifling. Extracting may pull the bullet back out a little - you will be able to tell based on how far the marker is rubbed off your bullet. Measure cartridge length, and repeat several times. Now start your loading with a COAL about 0.020" shorter than this. If the bullet happens to stick in the barrel, don't worry. You can lightly tap it out with a cleaning rod, and then crimp the case mouth slightly tighter. You can also of course buy a comparator, but you should already have everything you need to use the Hornady method...

Anyway, these are a few things I've learned so far. YMMV - good luck!

-Dave
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

+1 on the comparator. I suspect as DaveC does that your COAL is to long. That can be pretty dangerous depending on the exact situation. The procedure that DaveC describes will measure the max COAL for your specific chamber and a 168gn SMK.

I would highly recommend reading up on internal ballistics to understand what is going on in the chamber of your rifle. Hornady has a decent writeup with pictures.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Thanks all

With the help of others here (& more reading), I think I've resolved the problem - will see when the range opens up this morning... The resizing/depriming die wasnt properly set and after resetting & adjusting it (the dummy & live rounds I made up) all chamber easily into my rifle.

I made up 60 rounds to test starting at 40g (min listed in lyman) - 10 rounds each at 0.5g intervals that range from 40-42.5g.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Blue3bravo, I feel your pain as everyone has to start somewhere for reloading and if you don’t have a mentor around you when you first start you will probably make a lot of mistakes at first. That being said, I have a Dillon 550b that I load on. I use the progressive for pistol only. When I load 308, 6.8 or 223 I use it as a single/two stage.

1. Size and deprime as my first stage
2. Clean cases - I clean in a case tumbler
3. Trim brass to length and (I use a Giraud trimmer (chamfers in and out at you trim)
4. I prime using a Lee hand Primer - cheap but works
5. I powder charge with a Redding Bench Rest (3BR) (separate of the Dillon)
6. I use the last two dies - Overall length and Crimp together as a two stage.

I just don't trust the Dillon powder measurer with the rifle cases. Just too many things can go wrong. Even with my Redding powder measure I double check and measure to make sure I am in speck.

Then lastly I chamber rounds at home before I go to the range to ensure that they fit in the chamber. I actually do this as I am reloading. I always have a rifle out when I reload as to check as I go a long and also use the chamber gauge too.

Reloading is not hard but it has to be meticulously done or things happen in the range as you say.

good luck to you and keep asking questions. That is the only way you learn and if you can find a reloading mentor that would even be better.


 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Follow the advise most have given here and don't give up. Starting out with the 550B as a new reloader can be a difficult. The advise on dropping charges of 4064 with the Dillion powder measure is sound. They are notorius for wide variations with any stick powder like 4064, 4895 and the like. I'd weigh your charges often and you will see the varation which will effect your groups. Good luck.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Much better day at the range today.... Thanks all for the help
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blue3Bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Much better day at the range today.... Thanks all for the help</div></div>
definitely less frustrating when it works
grin.gif
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Some of you might burn me at the stake for being a heretic, but for many of my rifle loads, I've been loading on my Dillon 550Bs fully progressively. Yes, I lube the cases and run them through in one pass including using either a Dillon or a Hornady Lock N Load powder measure, using RE15, IMR 4064, and BLC2 powders! This includes 7.62 and 5.56 loads I use for NRA Highpower and Long Range competitions.

I use and RCBS X Die, which limits the case length growth. It works with the precision sized mandrel that is part of the expand/decap assembly. The mandrel has a shoulder that keeps the case from getting longer in length. The key is you have to resize the brass before trimming with the mandrel backed off. Then you set put a sized and trimmed case in the die and screw the mandrel down until the shoulder hits the case.

On the first loading, I resize on the Dillon like a single stage, then I trim the cases on a Gracey trimmer and uniform the primer pocket with a Sinclair carbide primer pocket tool. Then I run the sized and trimmed brass progressively through the Dillon. On subsequent loadings, tumble the brass to clean, then run it through progressively on the Dillon.

It's true 4064 doesn't meter all that well compared to RE15 or ball powders. Using a Hornady Lock N Load with case activated linkage mounted on a Dillon 550B, I once weighed 20 powder throws of 42.2 grs and the variation was +/- .4 grains. On a 42.2 grain load, that is only about 1.2% variation. The high was 42.5 grs, low of 41.8 grs, Avg of 42.1 grs, extreme spread of .7 grs., and standard deviation of .185 grs. In my book, That is more than acceptable accuracy, and my progressively loaded 7.62 and 5.56 loads were good enough to make Master class in NRA Highpower and NRA Highpower Long Range. If I lost points, it was because of my shooting and I wasn't losing points due to elevation, which could be caused by velocity variation of loads.

For this shooter's loads using 4064, variations due to thrown powders shouldn't make the difference between safe or unsafe loads.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

The comment on 4064 was only relevent when used with the Dillon powder measure. I've used the adapter Dillion sells to mount the RCBS uniflow powder measure (450 powder die required) for much more consistant drops with 4895 and 4064.
 
Re: Disappointing First Attempt at Reloading

Santo, can you tell me more about this powder measure & adapter? How accurate is it and is it worth purchasing?
 
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