Suppressors Disposing of the DIP Solution

[Longshot231]

For anyone who uses the DIP solution (50/50 mix of peroxide and vinegar), how do you dispose it?

The reason that I ask is that everything I've read puts it almost off the charts for toxicity after the suppressor is cleaned. That's especially true when a rimfire suppressor is cleaned with it.

 

[AIAW]

Just pour it next to a tree or in a creek

The peroxide and vinegar aren't a problem, it's the lead. Technically by law you are supposed drop it off at a local hazardous materials disposal site. To me, it's no different than oxidized lead in a berm getting wet. Maybe put it in a milk jug or something and just sling it in the trash.

If you are on sewer versus septic, just pour it down the drain. They'll filter it out if the PPM is even still detectable by the time it makes it to the water treatment plant.

Captain Planet would probably not be my best buddy!

 

[spife7980]

I would take it to your local drop off place, an example of mine http://www.austintexas.gov/dropoff

A quick google should get you an answer for a place local to you

 

[Holliday]

My understanding is that the leftover product is Lead Acetate. Really nasty stuff. This in no way belongs in your normal trash or disposed of improperly. This is NOT just liquid lead.

If I understand correctly lead acetate can be absorbed through the skin and the vapor through the lungs. It should be disposed of as highly hazardous material and handled with extreme care.

Lead Acetate MSDS: https://www.atmos.umd.edu/~russ/MSDS/lead_acetate.htm

My precautions:

Use glass containers: one for the dip, and one for fresh water rinse. I save peanut butter jars for this.

Do this outside! Away from pets and kids.

Mix only what you need. I do about 1/2 cup of each for my TBAC 22 Takedown.

I wear long sleeves, long pants ,shoes, safety glasses and a painting breather mask with charcoal canisters.

I wear Nitrile disposable gloves

Have a piece of coat hanger to pull the parts, to place in the rinse.

When finished, I pour kitty litter in both jars. Careful that you have enough room because it will expand. Leave lid loose until it stabilizes.

Tighten both caps, tape around caps with duct tape, mark “Lead Acetate- will kill you!!!” on another strip of tape. Place in separate sealed ziplock bags.

Deliver to hazardous waste facility. Ours here in Laramie takes it free of charge.

Throw away gloves, coat hanger etc in outside trash.

A side note:
A young University of Wyoming student & fellow long distance shooter friend of mine here locally got lead poisoning so bad, that he had to have his folks come from Oregon to drive him and his vehicle home. He has yet to determine the source. I personally suspect shooting or mishandling of something shooting related......

 

[Longshot231]

My understanding is that the leftover product is Lead Acetate. Really nasty stuff. This in no way belongs in your normal trash or disposed of improperly. This is NOT just liquid lead.

If I understand correctly lead acetate can be absorbed through the skin and the vapor through the lungs. It should be disposed of as highly hazardous material and handled with extreme care.

My precautions:

Use glass containers: one for the dip, and one for fresh water rinse. I save peanut butter jars for this.

Do this outside! Away from pets and kids.

Mix only what you need. I do about 1/2 cup of each for my TBAC 22 Takedown.

I wear long sleeves, long pants ,shoes, safety glasses and a painting breather mask with charcoal canisters.

I wear Nitrile disposable gloves

Have a piece of coat hanger to pull the parts, to place in the rinse.

When finished, I pour kitty litter in both jars. Careful that you have enough room because it will expand. Leave lid loose until it stabilizes.

Tighten both caps, tape around caps with duct tape, mark “Lead Acetate- will kill you!!!” on another strip of tape. Place in separate sealed ziplock bags.

Deliver to hazardous waste facility. Ours here in Laramie takes it free of charge.

Throw away gloves, coat hanger etc in outside trash.

A side note:
A young University of Wyoming student & fellow long distance shooter friend of mine here locally got lead poisoning so bad, that he had to have his folks come from Oregon to drive him and his vehicle home. He has yet to determine the source. I personally suspect shooting or mishandling of something shooting related......

This stuff sounds as bad as my ex-wife’s saliva.

It’s not worth the risk for me to mess with it.

My ultrasonic cleaner with the purple power mix has done a great job so far. So I’ll stick with it.

 

[Holliday]

This stuff sounds as bad as my ex-wife’s saliva.

It’s not worth the risk for me to mess with it.

My ultrasonic cleaner with the purple power mix has done a great job so far. So I’ll stick with it.

I added the MSDS to my above post. In my opinion, it is perfectly safe when handled correctly. Truth be told, you are most likely in more danger from the mishandling of other leads involved in shooting.

At least it is not Dimethyl mercury. This lady scientist got a drop of that on her latex glove and died..... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/1997/06/mercury-poisoning-kills-lab-chemist

 

[Longshot231]

I added the MSDS to my above post. In my opinion, it is perfectly safe when handled correctly. Truth be told, you are most likely in more danger from the mishandling of other leads involved in shooting.

At least it is not Dimethyl mercury. This lady scientist got a drop of that on her latex glove and died..... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/1997/06/mercury-poisoning-kills-lab-chemist

That's a sad story and a tragic ending for someone trying to help mankind. The good ones always die young.

 

[Holliday]

That's a sad story and a tragic ending for someone trying to help mankind. The good ones always die young.

My Grandfather got very sick from mishandling weed killer at his job working for the power company. He was never the same afterwards. He died some years later from lung cancer.

 

[Near miss]

Can this lead acetate be neutralized in any way?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Don't put things on your rifle that are a pain in the ass.

 

[Holliday]

Can this lead acetate be neutralized in any way?

I have seen this discussed but I think you need to be a chemist to do it correctly.

 

[Fig]

My understanding is that the leftover product is Lead Acetate. Really nasty stuff. This in no way belongs in your normal trash or disposed of improperly. This is NOT just liquid lead.

If I understand correctly lead acetate can be absorbed through the skin and the vapor through the lungs. It should be disposed of as highly hazardous material and handled with extreme care.

Lead Acetate MSDS: https://www.atmos.umd.edu/~russ/MSDS/lead_acetate.htm

My precautions:

Use glass containers: one for the dip, and one for fresh water rinse. I save peanut butter jars for this.

Do this outside! Away from pets and kids.

Mix only what you need. I do about 1/2 cup of each for my TBAC 22 Takedown.

I wear long sleeves, long pants ,shoes, safety glasses and a painting breather mask with charcoal canisters.

I wear Nitrile disposable gloves

Have a piece of coat hanger to pull the parts, to place in the rinse.

When finished, I pour kitty litter in both jars. Careful that you have enough room because it will expand. Leave lid loose until it stabilizes.

Tighten both caps, tape around caps with duct tape, mark “Lead Acetate- will kill you!!!” on another strip of tape. Place in separate sealed ziplock bags.

Deliver to hazardous waste facility. Ours here in Laramie takes it free of charge.

Throw away gloves, coat hanger etc in outside trash.

A side note:
A young University of Wyoming student & fellow long distance shooter friend of mine here locally got lead poisoning so bad, that he had to have his folks come from Oregon to drive him and his vehicle home. He has yet to determine the source. I personally suspect shooting or mishandling of something shooting related......

Shit, I’m saving that stuff for making lead acetate Molotov cocktails.

 

[BookHound]

Wow. Some of the comments and suggestions here are downright scary.

Please, listen to @Max . His post is 100% spot on. Please do NOT dispose of lead acetate by dumping it down your drain. Understand what you are dealing with and dispose of in a proper manner. If you don't feel like this is something you want to handle for the very real risks (and YES, it CAN be absorbed through the skin and will damage organs), then just treat suppressors as a consumable. You will still get many thousands of rounds out of a quality suppressor. The suppressors that really need cleaning are as mentioned 22 rimfire suppressors. I don't bother cleaning rifle suppressors at all and have a few with greater than 30K rounds through them.

Best regards,

 

[Near miss]

I have very mixed feelings about this.
First of all, lead acetate is poisonous but the medical people in usa have not recognized that it absorbs through skin.

It is actually (and legally) used in men's hair dyes in the US. I believe it is absorbed but men who dye their hair probably won't notice lowered IQ and infertility

In the wikipedia article it is said that one guy sipped 20g of this stuff and lived (painfully). The Lethal dose 50 is around 300-400mg/kg. For an adult 6/7-8/9oz is enough to kill you with around 50% probability.


I also found this on wikipedia:
An aqueous solution of lead(II) acetate is the byproduct of the 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar used in the cleaning and maintenance of stainless steel firearm suppressors (silencers) and compensators. The solution is agitated by the bubbling action of the hydrogen peroxide, and the main reaction is the dissolution of lead deposits within the suppressor by the acetic acid, which forms lead acetate. Because of its high toxicity, this chemical solution must be appropriately disposed by a chemical processing facility or hazardous materials centre. Alternatively, the solution may be reacted with sulfuric acid to precipitate nearly insoluble lead(II) sulfate. The solid may then be removed by mechanical filtration and is safer to dispose of than aqueous lead acetate.

In other words, do not use acetic acid for cleaning unless you can deliver the end product to hazards center or neutralize it.

This kind of cleaning.. makes a mess.

Any chemists here who have sulfur acid please try this and WEIGH how much lead there is after it has solified.

 

[WindstormSCR]

A little thread necromancy, but perhaps a helpful lesson for those out there who insist on using hazardous materials to clean things.

Written after helping an older shooting friend neutralize some materials he has made by following well meaning (but dumb) advice.

For the purposes of the lesson, let’s argue you were dumb to make the dip in the first place, but let’s say you have some you need to dispose of, and no good drop off location. In this example say 2 cups of dip in a glass container with an unknown amount of lead acetate in acetic acid.

All of this should be done outside or under a fume hood:

1) you’ll need this: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigald/258105

2) you’ll need a glass beaker with a pour lip, and a graduated cylinder (plenty of places, make sure it’s actually borosilicate glass)

3) please, please wear proper PPE, thick lab gloves, a lab apron, and respirator. I’m sure you’ll find a use for them besides this anyway.

4) first step is to dilute the sulfuric acid so it doesn’t do unpleasant things to you, or react too vigorously. Water in the beaker and sulfuric acid in the cylinder ~1:4 acid to water here, I won’t bore you with dilution chemistry. slowly add acid to the beaker.

5) very slowly add the dilute sulfuric acid to the acetic acid, solids should precipitate out. Let it sit a while, then keep adding more sulfuric acid (small amounts!!!) until you stop getting solid particulate.

Congratulations, your dip is no longer quite as hazardous, but you should still seal it up and dispose of it properly, it just won’t make you stupid(er) with the fumes or kill you from a spill.

 

[carbonbased]

A little thread necromancy, but perhaps a helpful lesson for those out there who insist on using hazardous materials to clean things.

Written after helping an older shooting friend neutralize some materials he has made by following well meaning (but dumb) advice.

For the purposes of the lesson, let’s argue you were dumb to make the dip in the first place, but let’s say you have some you need to dispose of, and no good drop off location. In this example say 2 cups of dip in a glass container with an unknown amount of lead acetate in acetic acid.

All of this should be done outside or under a fume hood:

1) you’ll need this: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigald/258105

2) you’ll need a glass beaker with a pour lip, and a graduated cylinder (plenty of places, make sure it’s actually borosilicate glass)

3) please, please wear proper PPE, thick lab gloves, a lab apron, and respirator. I’m sure you’ll find a use for them besides this anyway.

4) first step is to dilute the sulfuric acid so it doesn’t do unpleasant things to you, or react too vigorously. Water in the beaker and sulfuric acid in the cylinder ~1:4 acid to water here, I won’t bore you with dilution chemistry. slowly add acid to the beaker.

5) very slowly add the dilute sulfuric acid to the acetic acid, solids should precipitate out. Let it sit a while, then keep adding more sulfuric acid (small amounts!!!) until you stop getting solid particulate.

Congratulations, your dip is no longer quite as hazardous, but you should still seal it up and dispose of it properly, it just won’t make you stupid(er) with the fumes or kill you from a spill.

This is in no way meant as a challenge, just want to know how you know what you know on the neutralization end of things (I know the dip is very poisonous). Are you a chemist?

I’ve been solidly against the dip for years, and only recently (like yesterday!) started thinking of using it, and as I mentioned in another thread, your advice has now stopped that train.

 

[WindstormSCR]

This is in no way meant as a challenge, just want to know how you know what you know on the neutralization end of things (I know the dip is very poisonous). Are you a chemist?

I’ve been solidly against the dip for years, and only recently (like yesterday!) started thinking of using it, and as I mentioned in another thread, your advice has now stopped that train.

hobbyist chemist, mostly working with stuff related to 3D printing and epoxies.

I am working off a baseline of a couple general university chemistry courses with a lab component though, plus a lot of time spent reading organic chemistry related materials to know what sorts of things not to fuck with or accidentally create. or what things get you put on a list if you buy more than very minute quantities.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

hobbyist chemist, mostly working with stuff related to 3D printing and epoxies.

I am working off a baseline of a couple general university chemistry courses with a lab component though, plus a lot of time spent reading organic chemistry related materials to know what sorts of things not to fuck with or accidentally create. or what things get you put on a list if you buy more than very minute quantities.

You're pretty much on point @WindstormSCR . The only thing I would add is that not all PPE is effective against all hazards. You need to check that the glove material, filters and etc. is rated for use with the cocktail of little horrors you have produced. Do not just put that stuff in the trash or pour it out!

People need to be careful with stuff like this, what you don't know can hurt you and your family. Just because you can make it in your home doesn't mean its any less dangerous than "industrial waste", it actually might be more so.

If anyone cares, I have a masters in this area, various other accolades and work in exposure assessment and control.

 

[WindstormSCR]

You're pretty much on point @WindstormSCR . The only thing I would add is that not all PPE is effective against all hazards. You need to check that the glove material, filters and etc. is rated for use with the cocktail of little horrors you have produced. Do not just put that stuff in the trash or pour it out!

People need to be careful with stuff like this, what you don't know can hurt you and your family. Just because you can make it in your home doesn't mean its any less dangerous than "industrial waste", it actually might be more so.

If anyone cares, I have a masters in this area, various other accolades and work in exposure assessment and control.

Interesting question for you then, is what is your take on using “pirahna solution” as a cleaner instead of acetic acid? seems like a winner to me because of how readily it scavenges anything carbon, but I have not done any assessment of how it might react with stellite, 17-4 ph stainless, aluminum and cerakote. easier to neutralize than toxic as hell dip too with some sodium or calcium carbonate.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

Interesting question for you then, is what is your take on using “pirahna solution” as a cleaner instead of acetic acid? seems like a winner to me because of how readily it scavenges anything carbon, but I have not done any assessment of how it might react with stellite, 17-4 ph stainless, aluminum and cerakote. easier to neutralize than toxic as hell dip too with some sodium or calcium carbonate.

I'll give it a look this week and let you know.

 

[carbonbased]

I'll give it a look this week and let you know.

Is any update forthcoming, perchance?

 

[Fig]

GM Top Engine Cleaner was actually a real carbon solvent, almost like ammonia is a copper solvent. It was full of carbon tetrachloride, which is pretty poisonous stuff... It would, however, turn baked on carbon into soft paste you can wipe off. The new GM Top Engine Cleaner lacks the C-Cl4, and does not work.

Really, I'm surprised I've never seen anyone mention "Easy Off" oven cleaner. It's a nasty concoction of organic, carbon solvents. It contains a bunch of chemicals and other solvents you certainly don't need to clean a suppressor, but the butane and monoethanolamine are just the thing! Tape the front of the can up, shoot it full of Easy-Off, tape the top shut, let it sit for a day or two, flush out with hot water. Repeat if necessary.

What's Inside: Foamalicious, Vaporlicious Easy-Off Oven Cleaner

Photo: Thomas Hannich Butane Oven schmutz is usually encased in a nearly impenetrable charred-carbon crust, which is best breached by an organic solvent. Enter butane. Also an aerosol propellant, liquid butane loosens carbon molecules that conglomerate when other elements evaporate at high...

www.wired.com

 

[acudaowner]

no dip nor tea bagged anything .

 

[WindstormSCR]

GM Top Engine Cleaner was actually a real carbon solvent, almost like ammonia is a copper solvent. It was full of carbon tetrachloride, which is pretty poisonous stuff... It would, however, turn baked on carbon into soft paste you can wipe off. The new GM Top Engine Cleaner lacks the C-Cl4, and does not work.

Really, I'm surprised I've never seen anyone mention "Easy Off" oven cleaner. It's a nasty concoction of organic, carbon solvents. It contains a bunch of chemicals and other solvents you certainly don't need to clean a suppressor, but the butane and monoethanolamine are just the thing! Tape the front of the can up, shoot it full of Easy-Off, tape the top shut, let it sit for a day or two, flush out with hot water. Repeat if necessary.

What's Inside: Foamalicious, Vaporlicious Easy-Off Oven Cleaner

Photo: Thomas Hannich Butane Oven schmutz is usually encased in a nearly impenetrable charred-carbon crust, which is best breached by an organic solvent. Enter butane. Also an aerosol propellant, liquid butane loosens carbon molecules that conglomerate when other elements evaporate at high...

www.wired.com

I mean, its not as potentially lethal as the dip, but the lead compounds you're going to get out of that are still *very* bad.

my curiosity regarding the pirahna solution is that it has nothing in its constituents that will actually interact with the lead, instead just scavenging the carbon from stuff and turning it into carbon dioxide gas. without the carbon holding it in place the lead residues should clean off easily enough. the only question to my mind as I haven't tested it, is what might happen to the baffle materials (you wouldn't put a whole can in there, it would eat the cerakote)

as for me, my solution for cleaning rimfire cans is simply to toss the (steel) baffles in a tumbler with stainless pins and a little off the shelf gun parts cleaner. works wonders.

 

[Fig]

None of my rimfire cans are sealed. What rimfire cans are you shooting where you need to chemically clean them?

 

[lead ƒarmer]

I acknowledge the stuff is dangerous, but jeez some people need to relax! Wear the proper gloves, and handle with a little care and you'll be fine. Don't drink the stuff and don't go for a jog with an open container. I've used it countless times and simply pour all the leftover waste into a glass jar and take care of it. It's a cheap, easily accessible, and EXTREMELY effective method for cleaning rimfire cans. Nothing else even comes close. We need to respect the potential for danger with this mixture, but there's no reason to act like it can't possibly be used it in a safe manner either.

 

[WindstormSCR]

None of my rimfire cans are sealed. What rimfire cans are you shooting where you need to chemically clean them?

I was actually considering the pirahna for a centerfire can with a lot of built up crud, probably by machining in/out spouts to thread into the body then hooking it up to laboratory grade glassware to avoid any possibility of hot hyper-caustic shit getting where it shouldn't be

 

[Fig]

I acknowledge the stuff is dangerous, but jeez some people need to relax! Wear the proper gloves, and handle with a little care and you'll be fine. Don't drink the stuff and don't go for a jog with an open container. I've used it countless times and simply pour all the leftover waste into a glass jar and take care of it. It's a cheap, easily accessible, and EXTREMELY effective method for cleaning rimfire cans. Nothing else even comes close. We need to respect the potential for danger with this mixture, but there's no reason to act like it can't possibly be used it in a safe manner either.

Some people are afraid of Covid. Some are afraid of dogs, and some of heights. Some are afraid of firearms. Your level of perceived danger is absolutely relative to your perspective. Just because it can be dangerous due to ignorance or improper handling doesn't mean it actually is dangerous to someone else. Some people won't jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Some people won't swim with tiger sharks. The default of the internet to to treat everyone like an ignorant five year old (which some people are). Then again, some of us are men who know stuff.

 

[just browsing]

I acknowledge the stuff is dangerous, but jeez some people need to relax! Wear the proper gloves, and handle with a little care and you'll be fine. Don't drink the stuff and don't go for a jog with an open container. I've used it countless times and simply pour all the leftover waste into a glass jar and take care of it. It's a cheap, easily accessible, and EXTREMELY effective method for cleaning rimfire cans. Nothing else even comes close. We need to respect the potential for danger with this mixture, but there's no reason to act like it can't possibly be used it in a safe manner either.

“Take care of it” is the part that’s being discussed in this thread. If you have the means/wherewithal to handle and dispose of it properly, then there are no issues.

If you’re the 90% of people that think “taking care of it” involves throwing it in the trash, dumping it down your drain or into the soil outside your house, you shouldn’t be dealing with it.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

Is any update forthcoming, perchance?

Yeah, I'll review it soon. It's one of my sticky notes on my to do pile. I moved/started a new position and have not had much free time since.

 

[Longshot231]

I gave my rimfire and pistol cans the silicone oil treatment. He explains a lot of what we already know. However, skip to the 9 minute mark where he explains the silicone oil treatment.



For both the rimfire and pistol cans, all I have to do is disassemble and wipe away all of the carbon fouling. Every now and then, there will be some hard fouling that requires a little help with solvent and scrapping but nothing like before.

What I use to do before giving the cans the silicone oil treatment was boil the baffles in vinegar. I put the pan on a hot plate outside and boiled them for about 15-20 minutes then let everything cool.

What was left was a grayish powder that could be easily wiped or scraped away. I'm not chemist but I wonder if the powder was lead acetate in solid form.

Whatever it was, I wore proper PPE and removed the powder over a trash can.

The silicone oil treatment solved a lot of the cleaning problems.

 

[blbennett1288]

 

[carbonbased]

I gave my rimfire and pistol cans the silicone oil treatment. He explains a lot of what we already know. However, skip to the 9 minute mark where he explains the silicone oil treatment.



For both the rimfire and pistol cans, all I have to do is disassemble and wipe away all of the carbon fouling. Every now and then, there will be some hard fouling that requires a little help with solvent and scrapping but nothing like before.

What I use to do before giving the cans the silicone oil treatment was boil the baffles in vinegar. I put the pan on a hot plate outside and boiled them for about 15-20 minutes then let everything cool.

What was left was a grayish powder that could be easily wiped or scraped away. I'm not chemist but I wonder if the powder was lead acetate in solid form.

Whatever it was, I wore proper PPE and removed the powder over a trash can.

The silicone oil treatment solved a lot of the cleaning problems.

FYI, silicone mist (coming out of can as you shoot) = probably bad for your lungs and atomizes far and wide.

See https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/suppressor-recommendations.7106906/post-9978994

Rimfire can cleaning

Been an owner of Ase Utra Eco can for 2 years now. I have noticed that cleaning the can has become quite easy after dropping around 5 drops of oil like motor oil into the can before shooting the last magazine. The shots will mix the oil everywhere in the can. I do not do this every range...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

FYI, silicone mist (coming out of can as you shoot) = probably bad for your lungs and atomizes far and wide.

See https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/suppressor-recommendations.7106906/post-9978994

Rimfire can cleaning

Been an owner of Ase Utra Eco can for 2 years now. I have noticed that cleaning the can has become quite easy after dropping around 5 drops of oil like motor oil into the can before shooting the last magazine. The shots will mix the oil everywhere in the can. I do not do this every range...

www.snipershide.com

As long as you would be in a well ventilated or outdoor area this would probably be fine. However, I'd typically avoid adding potential airborne contaminants to the process if possible. But in firearms the primer is generally a much worse exposure due to it releasing vaporized lead near your breathing zone.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I have returned @carbonbased and @WindstormSCR to apparently cosplay my day job on the internet as the industrial hygiene and safety dick. I am not sure how well piping the Piranha through a sealed can would work. You could of course wait till the reaction stabilized and cooled but I have no idea how long and at what concentration you'd need to expose the can internals to before they would be sufficiently cleaned. And this isn't stuff you want a lot of on hand. If either of you want have other questions PM me and I'll get back to you.

Using Piranha Solution as a Substitute to Peracetic Acid “the dip” for Cleaning Silencers

Piranha solution also known as Sulfuric Peroxide Mix (SPM) is a combination of H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) and 30% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) generally at a ratio of 3:1. The process of mixing concentrated forms of these chemicals results in an exothermic reaction that can exceed 100⁰C. SPM is highly corrosive and will react violently with a number of organic and other incompatible materials (including cleaners and other residues). This can then result in gas production and a potentially serious explosive hazard as the SPM would be splattered in this process. SPM can “etch” a variety of metals such as Ti, Cr and others during which time hydrogen gas is released. Stainless steel is not affected, and I was not able to find information on stellite or inconel, however I tend to doubt they would be etched as both alloys are intended to resist oxidation for their uses. I am willing to bet this will kill your cerakote job on your can, but you're welcome to let me know.

It is very likely that a 10% or similar SPM solution would be effective as a carbon residue remover for suppressors. However, because of the additional hazards attributed to this chemical combination I would be extremely hesitant to recommend its use it in leu of other methods. No joke, even making less than 100ml of this stuff it is really nasty, and I do not trust the average Joe to not do something stupid with a chemical that will readily react in an explosive manner with a large number of materials.

Work with SPM should be conducted in a fume hood, or potentially outdoors, with appropriate PPE and safety controls. If you are not a knowledgeable chemist don’t pretend that things will go your way just because you are special, use extreme care. Please see attached the SDS and supporting material for recommendations on PPE and disposal/neutralization.

Between the peracetic acid “dip” and the SPM solution, I would probably lean towards the “dip” as it has fewer hazards to inherent in producing it and is less volatile during use. However, both methods are extremely hazardous and should not be stored in your home (even though you think you’re not dumb like the other guys). This stuff tends to get lost in jars and then found by family members later.

I would recommend a form of wet tumbling for most applications as opposed to the above solutions. This would in theory create fewer and more controllable hazards. Such as capturing the released carbon and lead residue into a non-airborne form that can then be disposed of. Unfortunately, this wouldn't really work for a sealed suppressor.

This is my personal opinions from looking through some of this material over my lunch break and is not a professional safety recommendation. Follow applicable HAZMAT requirements for disposal or ask the pertinent authority. I am not responsible for your mistakes when you find out what substances are incompatible with these chemicals, you are fined for improper disposal, or if you do not utilize proper PPE.

https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/sites/ehs.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf/si/piranha_solution_si.pdf

Piranha Solutions

- Division of Research Safety | Illinois

https://www.ehs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/lab_safety_guideline_piranha_etch.pdf

 

[WindstormSCR]

I've worked with pirahna before at small scales for cleaning glassware after various small scale O-chem experiments, so I'm quite well aware of the volatility. I managed to get ahold of a bit of scrap stellite, so I'm going to expose it to a small amount of the SPM and see how it fares. I have a feeling they may etch under the extreme nature of the exposure.

I agree generally wet tumbling is the better way to go, but my interest is mostly for welded centerfire construction, which has the added advantage of having screw threads I can machine adapters for out of stainless.... assuming the stellite and inconel scrap survive my little test this weekend.

if they etch I guess it's back to the bore-tech suppressor kit with the pressure lance.

 

[carbonbased]

I have returned @carbonbased and @WindstormSCR to apparently cosplay my day job on the internet as the industrial hygiene and safety dick. I am not sure how well piping the through a sealed can would work. You could of course wait till the reaction stabilized and cooled but I have no idea how long and at what concentration you'd need to expose the can internals to before they would be sufficiently cleaned. And this isn't stuff you want a lot of on hand. If either of you want have other questions PM me and I'll get back to you.

Using Piranha Solution as a Substitute to Peracetic Acid “the dip” for Cleaning Silencers

Piranha solution also known as Sulfuric Peroxide Mix (SPM) is a combination of H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) and 30% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) generally at a ratio of 3:1. The process of mixing concentrated forms of these chemicals results in an exothermic reaction that can exceed 100⁰C. SPM is highly corrosive and will react violently with a number of organic and other incompatible materials (including cleaners and other residues). This can then result in gas production and a potentially serious explosive hazard as the SPM would be splattered in this process. SPM can “etch” a variety of metals such as Ti, Cr and others during which time hydrogen gas is released. Stainless steel is not affected, and I was not able to find information on stellite or inconel, however I tend to doubt they would be etched as both alloys are intended to resist oxidation for their uses. I am willing to bet this will kill your cerakote job on your can, but you're welcome to let me know.

It is very likely that a 10% or similar SPM solution would be effective as a carbon residue remover for suppressors. However, because of the additional hazards attributed to this chemical combination I would be extremely hesitant to recommend its use it in leu of other methods. No joke, even making less than 100ml of this stuff it is really nasty, and I do not trust the average Joe to not do something stupid with a chemical that will readily react in an explosive manner with a large number of materials.

Work with SPM should be conducted in a fume hood, or potentially outdoors, with appropriate PPE and safety controls. If you are not a knowledgeable chemist don’t pretend that things will go your way just because you are special, use extreme care. Please see attached the SDS and supporting material for recommendations on PPE and disposal/neutralization.

Between the peracetic acid “dip” and the SPM solution, I would probably lean towards the “dip” as it has fewer hazards to inherent in producing it and is less volatile during use. However, both methods are extremely hazardous and should not be stored in your home (even though you think you’re not dumb like the other guys). This stuff tends to get lost in jars and then found by family members later.

I would recommend a form of wet tumbling for most applications as opposed to the above solutions. This would in theory create fewer and more controllable hazards. Such as capturing the released carbon and lead residue into a non-airborne form that can then be disposed of. Unfortunately, this wouldn't really work for a sealed suppressor.

This is my personal opinions from looking through some of this material over my lunch break and is not a professional safety recommendation. Follow applicable HAZMAT requirements for disposal or ask the pertinent authority. I am not responsible for your mistakes when you find out what substances are incompatible with these chemicals, you are fined for improper disposal, or if you do not utilize proper PPE.

https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/sites/ehs.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf/si/piranha_solution_si.pdf

Piranha Solutions

- Division of Research Safety | Illinois

https://www.ehs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/lab_safety_guideline_piranha_etch.pdf

This is way beyond my pay grade, so I do believe I’ll pass on using it. But I am very glad you got back to us on its use as it was interesting. It has a great name!

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I've worked with pirahna before at small scales for cleaning glassware after various small scale O-chem experiments, so I'm quite well aware of the volatility. I managed to get ahold of a bit of scrap stellite, so I'm going to expose it to a small amount of the SPM and see how it fares. I have a feeling they may etch under the extreme nature of the exposure.

I agree generally wet tumbling is the better way to go, but my interest is mostly for welded centerfire construction, which has the added advantage of having screw threads I can machine adapters for out of stainless.... assuming the stellite and inconel scrap survive my little test this weekend.

if they etch I guess it's back to the bore-tech suppressor kit with the pressure lance.

Always gotta write for the lowest common denominator unfortunately. Even at my work we have PhDs hoarding chemicals that should have been disposed of.

For sure, let me know how the stellite does. I'm not too sure it will etch from my reading but idk.

Additionally, if your test goes well, exposing a muzzle brake/adaptor that's all carboned up to SPM might be a good idea before flushing it through your can. That would at least give you a base line or if it has any other not so cool outcomes.

 

[Shoots 700's]

This is why I won't have a .22 suppressor. Too much trouble

 

[WindstormSCR]

This is why I won't have a .22 suppressor. Too much trouble

actually the wet tumble approach is just fine and as easy as tumbling brass for reloading. at least if yours is the type that is able to be disassembled (the majority)

 

[carbonbased]

For my wet tumbling experience, I found that using Lemi-Shine, a bit a Dawn, water (of course) in my Franklin tumbler didn't work that great after many hours of running. Like, 9+ hrs or more. It got some stuff off, but I am far from a neat freak (read: slob) and it wasn't clean enough for me.

So I did a little more research and tried the following, which worked for my take-apart cans that had centerfire and rimfire shot through them for way too long:

1. Buy CLR (not the CLR brand, that stuff is stupidly $$$). Like this Zep, which I used.
2. If you can get the suppressor disassembled, then put baffles in a tall glass jar for a while with the CLR. I left my titanium baffles in there for 3 days. The solution might foam so don't put the damn thing on your kitchen counter.
3. If you cannot get the suppressor disassembled, then plug the end with an earplug, tape the earplug in there, stand upright (I have a weird narrow & tall SS pot that was left in a house I bought—for pasta?) and pour in the CLR with a funnel. Keep on checking back and adding more CLR as it foams and makes it hard to know when it's full. I let it sit for three or more days; it leaked a bit but my can (a Banish 30) didn't suffer any Cerakote damage, but YMMV. I should source an appropriate rubber stopper. Don’t let the CLR sit on the SS threads…it can etch SS after a while.
4. Disassemble the suppressor from #3 and goto step #2. I used the excellent Banish baffle jack on my Banish cans to disassemble. Not sure if it works on other cans. Makes pushing the dirty baffles out so darn easy.
5. After the CLR soak, wipe off stuff on baffles (with multiple layers of gloves on) and I used a brass brush and pick on a bit of stubborn stuff. They were fairly clean, though.
6. Then throw baffles into tumbler. Lemi-Shine, a bit a Dawn, and SS pins and they came out really clean and only needed a little elbow grease to be spotless. I will be cleaning more frequently in the future to avoid the elbow grease.

I think the idea here is CLR weakens the carbon bonds and allows the lead to come off easier too.

Drying the SS pins out afterwards was a little challenging. I had to finally dedicate and use a baking pan to spread the tiny pins out and leave them outside to dry. The pins ARE magnetic SS, which makes them a little easier to pick up after the inevitable spills.

I think Franklin sells magnetic tools to manipulate the pins easier.

(Edit: unless you live in a van down by the river, don’t be using any pot or glass you will ever eat out/off of. Don’t do this in the kitchen or bathroom. Unless you want lead/carbon/whatever to find its way onto people’s hands and maybe into their food)

 

[Mwalex]

Oh boy, reading over chemistry in the Hide makes me very concerned, and yes I am a chemist.

Lead acetate can be an issue with human exposure but mainly through ingestion. The acetate salt would be converted to the chloride salt in the stomach and the toxicity increases dramatically at that point. Any water soluble lead salt can be concerning.

I would not suggest trying to convert lead acetate to lead sulfate with sulfuric acid at home. If anything I would just add an ammonia based cleaner to the lead acetate solution:

Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) - Balanced Chemical Equation

Balance the reaction of Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) using this chemical equation balancer!

en.intl.chemicalaid.com

The lead hydroxide should precipitate out of solution. That being said lead hydroxide is not a safe compound.

The best options are not to generate a hazardous material at home or drop it off somewhere. Kitchen sink chemistry is never a good idea unless you know what you are doing.

 

[Longshot231]

Oh boy, reading over chemistry in the Hide makes me very concerned, and yes I am a chemist.

Lead acetate can be an issue with human exposure but mainly through ingestion. The acetate salt would be converted to the chloride salt in the stomach and the toxicity increases dramatically at that point. Any water soluble lead salt can be concerning.

I would not suggest trying to convert lead acetate to lead sulfate with sulfuric acid at home. If anything I would just add an ammonia based cleaner to the lead acetate solution:

Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) - Balanced Chemical Equation

Balance the reaction of Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) using this chemical equation balancer!

en.intl.chemicalaid.com

The lead hydroxide should precipitate out of solution. That being said lead hydroxide is not a safe compound.

The best options are not to generate a hazardous material at home or drop it off somewhere. Kitchen sink chemistry is never a good idea unless you know what you are doing.

Question for the chemist. I won’t mess with the DIP to remove lead deposits.

However, I’ve boiled some rimfire baffles in vinegar for about 30-45 minutes then let them cool. All this is accomplished outside.

I pour the vinegar and baffles through a strainer in the backyard.

What’s left on the baffles is an off-white to light gray powder.

I either remove that powdery substance with paper towels while wearing PPE or tumbling.

Can you tell us what that powdery substance left on the baffles is? Am I still safe?

 

[Fig]

I don’t know, but I know who we should get to snort it and find out.

 

[Longshot231]

I don’t know, but I know who we should get to snort it and find out.

Excellent point. If he dies from snorting it then we should not be around it. If he gets happy from snorting it then we REALLY shouldn't be around it.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Oh boy, reading over chemistry in the Hide makes me very concerned, and yes I am a chemist.

Lead acetate can be an issue with human exposure but mainly through ingestion. The acetate salt would be converted to the chloride salt in the stomach and the toxicity increases dramatically at that point. Any water soluble lead salt can be concerning.

I would not suggest trying to convert lead acetate to lead sulfate with sulfuric acid at home. If anything I would just add an ammonia based cleaner to the lead acetate solution:

Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) - Balanced Chemical Equation

Balance the reaction of Pb(CH3COO)2 + NH3 + H2O = Pb(OH)2 + NH4(CH3COO) using this chemical equation balancer!

en.intl.chemicalaid.com

The lead hydroxide should precipitate out of solution. That being said lead hydroxide is not a safe compound.

The best options are not to generate a hazardous material at home or drop it off somewhere. Kitchen sink chemistry is never a good idea unless you know what you are doing.

another good option I hadn’t thought of on account of not being a professional chemist. My original post used the sulfuric to create the precipitate since that’s what I had to hand from a different project. I’d also be concerned about a cleaner creating unknown side products.

 

[Mwalex]

another good option I hadn’t thought of on account of not being a professional chemist. My original post used the sulfuric to create the precipitate since that’s what I had to hand from a different project. I’d also be concerned about a cleaner creating unknown side products.

We use what we have but sulfuric is much more hazardous than diluted ammonia. I believe that diluted ammonia is pretty easy to find legally.

As an option lead sulfate was good choice due to its water solubility.

 

[Near miss]

 

[308pirate]

A young University of Wyoming student & fellow long distance shooter friend of mine here locally got lead poisoning so bad, that he had to have his folks come from Oregon to drive him and his vehicle home. He has yet to determine the source. I personally suspect shooting or mishandling of something shooting related......

I have a hard time truly grasping what shooting-related thing you could ever do to get lead poising that bad, particularly being that young.

Huffing molten lead fumes or shooting a shit-ton of cast lead bullets indoor without ventilation are about it, and you would have to be professional-grade stupid to do either.

 

[308pirate]

I do not trust the average Joe to not do something stupid with a chemical that will readily react in an explosive manner with a large number of materials.

So dropping a little bit of sodium in there would be a bad idea?