So I'm finishing an AR-10 build in 308. I'm running a 20" barrel and trying to pick out an optic. I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to these. Though I'm always open for suggestions. My target budget is $1000 -$1200 with my military discount.
- Thread starter IFlyEm l
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Any opinions on the T6Xi? I can get a really good deal on on.
You might look at the Burris XTRIII with the SCR reticle. I had a SCR and SCR2 next to each other and they both have different benefits. You can grab a 3.3-18 SCR off EuroOptic for dirt cheap right now. I've heard the illuminated Philippine made model is supposed to correct some of the knob/rotational harshness of the US made early models but I preferred the US model I have. I really enjoy my US made 5.5-30. I think it's a heck of a lot of scope regardless of the money.
You couldn’t give me a Burris or Steiner, they’re junk. Just read some of the reports on them.
I also wouldn’t even consider the PST, they don’t have a solid track record either.
The PR1 reticle sucks for a DMR rifle. You can barely tell the .2 from the 1 mil hash marks on the vertical even on max magnification, it only has reference numbers every 5 mils, and no tree for wind. Supposedly the PR2 is coming in that optic and with that reticle or the T3 it would make a good choice. I’ve had a few MK5 T3’s on DMR rifles and they’re excellent for that role.
The NX8 wouldn’t be a bad choice but the DOF isn’t great in that line which is why I’ll probably never own one. It’s the nature of the beast with high optic designs like that.
The ten mile is a LONG optic but otherwise they’re good and they have a decent tree reticle.
You might also want to look at the Bushnell DMR3, they’re solid scopes with a great feature set for DMR use and Japanese built. The new Leupold MK4HD might be worth considering but they just released and who knows when they’ll hit shelves. I rolled the dice with the MK5HD right off of the release and had no regrets and I’d totally do it again with the MK4HD.
I also wouldn’t even consider the PST, they don’t have a solid track record either.
The PR1 reticle sucks for a DMR rifle. You can barely tell the .2 from the 1 mil hash marks on the vertical even on max magnification, it only has reference numbers every 5 mils, and no tree for wind. Supposedly the PR2 is coming in that optic and with that reticle or the T3 it would make a good choice. I’ve had a few MK5 T3’s on DMR rifles and they’re excellent for that role.
The NX8 wouldn’t be a bad choice but the DOF isn’t great in that line which is why I’ll probably never own one. It’s the nature of the beast with high optic designs like that.
The ten mile is a LONG optic but otherwise they’re good and they have a decent tree reticle.
You might also want to look at the Bushnell DMR3, they’re solid scopes with a great feature set for DMR use and Japanese built. The new Leupold MK4HD might be worth considering but they just released and who knows when they’ll hit shelves. I rolled the dice with the MK5HD right off of the release and had no regrets and I’d totally do it again with the MK4HD.
Far from Junk. I own three T6xi’s. They got them right. The only problem if it bothers some they have is a soft (not easy) turret feel, same as Trijicons I own.
OP, all of them listed are good optics. I would say the PST ii is towards the bottom far as reliability, and the nx8 has a tight eye box I didn’t like. The rest of them just weight out your options of what you like and want from it by size, weight, turret style and mechanics, glass, fov, reticles, etc…. Pick the one that fits your criteria the most and go with it.
My only experience with them is about 5 minutes playing with a 3-18 in a local store a month or so ago and the little reference numbers in the turret were jumping as the turret was turned from the clicking of the detent. I didn’t not walk away thinking that was a quality built optic. I also personally have had T5 and M7’s shit the bed.
Plenty of people have sent T6’s back and posted about it. Just the other day a guy posted in one of the Burris/Steiner threads about having to send back a T6 and they just shipped him a new one out before they even got it and didn’t even fix the damn thing. That’s Chinese/phillipino level shit if they just replace them and don’t repair.
Sorry but you’re not going to convince be that they’re solid optics.
Go look up the other optics you praised, plenty of them have shit the bed. I’ve picked up on here from your post you have a for fact correct minded opinion. So changing your mind wasn’t the point of my post. Enjoy your optic of choice
Anything can fail and I've had quite a few optics fail and I'll be the first to tell you about any of them. I'm not sure what you're referring to that I praised, but I'd assume it's the MK5's and Bushnell DMR's. Considering that my track record for reliability on 8 samples of MK5's and at least 10 samples of Bushnell elites has been flawless and I've sent back both Steiners I've ever owned for failures I think it's pretty reasonable to feel the way I do about them. I'm not a biased person and I'll give companies chances after being burned, but when the first time I put my hands on a new model and it such an obvious defect right out of the box that tells me that it's still a piece of shit.
I will agree on Steiner /Burris being turds of the first order.
As far as your list of prospects in regards to your budget, I'm a little confused. I doubt you can get a NX8 for $1200 with a MIL discount. Same goes for a Mk5 with a Horus reticle or even the PR-1. The PST is way under your budget. If you could stretch your budget a little, I would recommend a 4-16x42 ATACR in reticle of your choice. They come and go on the PX pretty often for $2Kish. Nightforce has a MIL program but kinda stingy. Eurooptic is often cheaper with MIL. I bought a couple demo Nightforces from Eurooptic and they were perfect.
The 4-16x42 is THE quintessential large-frame gas gun optic for a reason.
As far as your list of prospects in regards to your budget, I'm a little confused. I doubt you can get a NX8 for $1200 with a MIL discount. Same goes for a Mk5 with a Horus reticle or even the PR-1. The PST is way under your budget. If you could stretch your budget a little, I would recommend a 4-16x42 ATACR in reticle of your choice. They come and go on the PX pretty often for $2Kish. Nightforce has a MIL program but kinda stingy. Eurooptic is often cheaper with MIL. I bought a couple demo Nightforces from Eurooptic and they were perfect.
The 4-16x42 is THE quintessential large-frame gas gun optic for a reason.
I have two 2.5-20 NX8s and one Tenmile. For me, both work really well, other than being FFP (see below). Adjustment is easy and tactile. Tracking is consistent. The reticles are clear. To my aging eyes both seem to focus well and have good glass clarity.
At what ranges do you foresee using the rifle? Do you really need 18-20x magnification?
You might be able to get a top tier lower power scope that will suit your needs for less $$. Maybe a 1-8/10x SFP or similar.
Also think about FFP v SFP. Are you really going to use the range-finding reticle? At close to medium ranges where I like lower magnification, I hate my FFP scopes‘ reticles. If I could swap my FFPs for SFPs I would without hesitation.
I have what is now the 1-8x Credo from Trijicon. It is solid, repeatable and with SFP if a great optic.
I hope this helps!
SBR
At what ranges do you foresee using the rifle? Do you really need 18-20x magnification?
You might be able to get a top tier lower power scope that will suit your needs for less $$. Maybe a 1-8/10x SFP or similar.
Also think about FFP v SFP. Are you really going to use the range-finding reticle? At close to medium ranges where I like lower magnification, I hate my FFP scopes‘ reticles. If I could swap my FFPs for SFPs I would without hesitation.
I have what is now the 1-8x Credo from Trijicon. It is solid, repeatable and with SFP if a great optic.
I hope this helps!
SBR
Luepy has just announced the MK4 HD line, while they are 4x erectors, the 4.5-18 looks like a pretty solid choice. For a DMR, the 2.5-15 range is attractive. If you can live with SFP, the Credo 2.5-15 is a solid scope. The Toric illuminated 2.5-15 FFP scope, while no lightweight, would be attractive as well, they do offer Mil pricing and it is a substantial savings.
Yeah they're not happening for $1200. I haven't looked on EV yet this year to see if there was any price increases but the cheapest NX8 configuration was a few hundred over that last time I checked. No idea on Leupolds mil pricing though, I don't get that and I'm pretty sure that's direct, if it's on EV I don't have access to it. I can't imagine it being $1200 though.
It's just a little north of that but close enough if it's worth it. $1000 -n$1200 is a target. My limit is $1500
Have a MK5 3.6-18 TMR. Not impressed with optical clarity on dim days, terrible low light. Too many optical compromises in the short body. 5-25 version is much better. Had a seal go out, repaired, no longer use it. I do love the turrets. I've heard of eyebox issues on the night force 2.5-20.
1-8 Credo. It a good optic and have shot steel out to 600yds on a 556 carbine.
1-8 Credo. It a good optic and have shot steel out to 600yds on a 556 carbine.
I’m on the other side, I’ve had a few lupy’s fail, mostly sucked tracking. They lost my faith many years back. They never lost zero though without a major reason I give them that. That doesn’t include the mk5hd as I’ve not personally owned one, only used on others. I owned and still own Elites. Those were my favorite hunting optics. Never owned a Burris/Steiner product that I remember, until the T6xi when they were first released and have ran mine hard shooting from my gas guns. No issues. To each there own.
I went down this exact road about a month ago. Ended up with a Zeiss S3 4-25 because of the end-of-year sales.
The biggest thing I learned is you're going to get 50,000 opinions - 1 for every member here. None of which are wrong, everyone just has different features that are important to them and different experiences.
I'd recommend coming up with a priority order of things that are important to you and then sort the choices by that.
I.e.
Weight is #1? - Leupold Mk5
Price? - Burris
Field of view? - Steiner
Mag range? - NX8
All-around balance / cool factor? - ATACR
There are a few little nuances to know, like illumination being extra on the Mk5HD, and the eye relief/dof on the NX8, but in general, I think you'll be happy with any one of them
The biggest thing I learned is you're going to get 50,000 opinions - 1 for every member here. None of which are wrong, everyone just has different features that are important to them and different experiences.
I'd recommend coming up with a priority order of things that are important to you and then sort the choices by that.
I.e.
Weight is #1? - Leupold Mk5
Price? - Burris
Field of view? - Steiner
Mag range? - NX8
All-around balance / cool factor? - ATACR
There are a few little nuances to know, like illumination being extra on the Mk5HD, and the eye relief/dof on the NX8, but in general, I think you'll be happy with any one of them
XTR3 for sure, it will give you the most bang for the buck out of those.
The only Vortex that will compare to them is the Razor line, an older G2 would be a good choice and be in your budget.
No way I'd pay $1,900 for a NX8, might as well look for a used ATACR.
The only Vortex that will compare to them is the Razor line, an older G2 would be a good choice and be in your budget.
No way I'd pay $1,900 for a NX8, might as well look for a used ATACR.
For AR-10s, the first and foremost question is, “Will it take the abuse of the BCG slamming back into battery?"
Most scopes are designed to absorb high Gs from linear recoil, not the Gs from when the bolt slams into the breech, followed by the carrier slamming into the extension.
NightForce and Vortex Razors reign that space. I’ve heard others mention this or that options that supposedly take the beating, but I’m not sure which ones they are.
I’ve broken a lot of scopes and have seen many break over the years at matches and courses.
Most scopes are designed to absorb high Gs from linear recoil, not the Gs from when the bolt slams into the breech, followed by the carrier slamming into the extension.
NightForce and Vortex Razors reign that space. I’ve heard others mention this or that options that supposedly take the beating, but I’m not sure which ones they are.
I’ve broken a lot of scopes and have seen many break over the years at matches and courses.
The Steiner T6Xi 3-18 is a nice scope for the money in my experience. If you look at the T6Xi thread, it is overall positive on the T6Xi.
Redneckbmxer24 is pretty opinionated and my experience differs from his pretty regularly.
I have everything from SWFA SS to ZCO and Hensoldt scopes. I like the 3-18 T6Xi Steiner. It is bright, I like the turrets, the windows that show the second turn are pretty cool, the build quality seems good for the money I paid. My only concern with it is the MSR2 reticle is a little thin for my taste at 3-4 power. I do, however, like thicker reticles, even a good old mil-dot depending on the application.
I have two AR-10s. On a 20” 308 LMT LM8 (not redneckbmxer approved as well) I have a NF 2.5-10x42. It is second focal plane,which is fine at 10 power max mag, is light at 20 ounces, and has been a solid scope for $1600. The 22” 6.5 CM has a Hensoldt 4-16x56 mil-dot. It works great for that package with an easy to see reticle at low power, great glass, and is easy to get behind.
I think the Steiner 3-18 could work well on an AR-10.
Redneckbmxer24 is pretty opinionated and my experience differs from his pretty regularly.
I have everything from SWFA SS to ZCO and Hensoldt scopes. I like the 3-18 T6Xi Steiner. It is bright, I like the turrets, the windows that show the second turn are pretty cool, the build quality seems good for the money I paid. My only concern with it is the MSR2 reticle is a little thin for my taste at 3-4 power. I do, however, like thicker reticles, even a good old mil-dot depending on the application.
I have two AR-10s. On a 20” 308 LMT LM8 (not redneckbmxer approved as well) I have a NF 2.5-10x42. It is second focal plane,which is fine at 10 power max mag, is light at 20 ounces, and has been a solid scope for $1600. The 22” 6.5 CM has a Hensoldt 4-16x56 mil-dot. It works great for that package with an easy to see reticle at low power, great glass, and is easy to get behind.
I think the Steiner 3-18 could work well on an AR-10.
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