DNT 7-35x56 FFP not holding zero

[GuideDog]

Has anyone else had a problem with a DNT 7-35x56 not holding zero? My turrets do not "settle" between clicks. I have been using this scope for a few months now and have yet to get repeatable results meaning about every 6-10 rounds of 22lr I get about a 0.5 inch flyer. At first I thought ammo. Same ammo shoots without flyers in another rifle (Vudoo). This scopes on a CZ457. I should have swapped scopes but instead I somehow was convinced it was the barrel. I just replaced the barrel and it's THE SAME. I have another scope coming tomorrow so that should determine if it's the scope definitively. I'll post findings as soon as I can swap scopes, using the one on my Vudoo, Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 which the combo shoots perfect.

Anyone else had similar issues?

 

[fdkay]

All mechanical devices can fail.
Have you reached out to DNT?
I'd be more interested to see what they CS response was.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Sorry you're having issues. Whether you purchased this from us, or not, please give me a call, 516-217-1000, or PM me and I'll get with our DNT rep to get the scope back to them and get this corrected ASAP

 

[Caba]

Should've bought American

 

[1911hombre]

If you get one flyer every 6-10 rounds I seriously doubt it's a scope related problem.

 

[bobby1028]

Curious why you would relate a flyer in a 10 shot 22lr group with a scope issue ?
Different brand or lot of ammo shows the same results ?
Switch the DNT to the Vudoo and see if the same pattern emerges since you say it's not an issue with the Vudoo.

 

[gopherslayer]

Curious why you have 2 accounts

 

[Rob01]

Has anyone else had a problem with a DNT 7-35x56 not holding zero? My turrets do not "settle" between clicks. I have been using this scope for a few months now and have yet to get repeatable results meaning about every 6-10 rounds of 22lr I get about a 0.5 inch flyer. At first I thought ammo. Same ammo shoots without flyers in another rifle (Vudoo). This scopes on a CZ457. I should have swapped scopes but instead I somehow was convinced it was the barrel. I just replaced the barrel and it's THE SAME. I have another scope coming tomorrow so that should determine if it's the scope definitively. I'll post findings as soon as I can swap scopes, using the one on my Vudoo, Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 which the combo shoots perfect.

Anyone else had similar issues?

I will contact DNT as soon as I complete the troubleshooting.

Did you miss that I changed barrels and the exact same issue exists and has ever since the DNT scope has been installed? Yes, 10 different brands of ammo have been tried. I do plan to swap the scope next. I said that above but thanks for repeating.

So you all the same person? Why two names?

 

[Caba]

So you all the same person? Why two names?

To find his equal a man is sometimes forced to talk to himself.

 

[1911hombre]

What a load of horseshit....

 

[Rob01]

You tell me. I do not know. Lol

How do you not know? You are the one that signed in and made posts under two names. Why do you have two?

 

[Milf Dots]

Has anyone else had a problem with a DNT 7-35x56 not holding zero? My turrets do not "settle" between clicks. I have been using this scope for a few months now and have yet to get repeatable results meaning about every 6-10 rounds of 22lr I get about a 0.5 inch flyer. At first I thought ammo. Same ammo shoots without flyers in another rifle (Vudoo). This scopes on a CZ457. I should have swapped scopes but instead I somehow was convinced it was the barrel. I just replaced the barrel and it's THE SAME. I have another scope coming tomorrow so that should determine if it's the scope definitively. I'll post findings as soon as I can swap scopes, using the one on my Vudoo, Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 which the combo shoots perfect.

Anyone else had similar issues?

DNT- is that a Chinese OEM manufacturer?

 

[Rob01]

As I said I don’t know. It appears my phone logged me in I’m guessing to an older account.

Why does it matter?

Because you are not supposed to have multiple accounts on the site. It’s a thing scammers do. Which name do you want to keep?

 

[Rob01]

The one with the most posts would be logical.

Ok just wanted to make sure before the other one goes away.

 

[db2000]

 

[GuideDog]

Because you are not supposed to have multiple accounts on the site. It’s a thing scammers do. Which name do you want to keep?

GuideDog seems to be the one I created last.
I was not aware that I had two... oh well.

They both link to the same posts. Why?

 

[GuideDog]

Ok just wanted to make sure before the other one goes away.

Great, now we can get back to, was going to say normal....

 

[Rob01]

GuideDog seems to be the one I created last.
I was not aware that I had two... oh well.

They both link to the same posts. Why?

Because you posted as both here.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Guide dog and Rocky road.

The blind leading to the ice cream

 

[GuideDog]

Curious why you would relate a flyer in a 10 shot 22lr group with a scope issue ?
Different brand or lot of ammo shows the same results ?
Switch the DNT to the Vudoo and see if the same pattern emerges since you say it's not an issue with the Vudoo.

Now after scope swap and reinstalling the scope base the issue may be the scope base and not the scope. I have a base on the way so if it's not that its the rifle action. Next is shimming the bolt. Headspace is at .046 inch. I'll shim it to .043. I did try that with the factory barrel and it did not improve. It's worth another try with then Jarvis barrel.

What size groups are others getting with CZ457's? Both my Vudoo and Bergara shoot 0.3 inch at worst. Best is maybe .15 at 50 yards. I have been winning the local benchrest match with the Vudoo, so don't think this is shooter related, LOL.

 

[Emerson0311]

Now after scope swap and reinstalling the scope base the issue may be the scope base and not the scope. I have a base on the way so if it's not that its the rifle action. Next is shimming the bolt. Headspace is at .046 inch. I'll shim it to .043. I did try that with the factory barrel and it did not improve. It's worth another try with then Jarvis barrel.

What size groups are others getting with CZ457's? Both my Vudoo and Bergara shoot 0.3 inch at worst. Best is maybe .15 at 50 yards. I have been winning the local benchrest match with the Vudoo, so don't think this is shooter related, LOL.

Group size is extremely ammo dependent. I find it difficult to resolve mid grade ammo inconsistencies at 50. At 100, especially with multiple 10 shot groups you will see the problem. As I shoot outside, when ammo testing I pay little attention to the horizontal dispersion. For me, SK will show about 15% high/low shots on paper at 100. Centerfire shooters transitioning to Rimfire usually do not understand the inconsistency inherent in Rimfire ammo.

Forgive my thoughts, but without paper targets showing multiple 10+ shot groups with data attached and your confusion about a scope base causing flyers, maybe doing a lot more data collection at the range will show you the answers you seek.

 

[bobby1028]

457 Lilja w/Arken 5x25...457 L3i w/Leupold 5x25. Both shoot 50yd .150 thru .300 all day, sub moa at 100yds and at or just over moa at 200yds. Properly built 457 can shoot with the best rimfires. Are your groups opening up vertically or horizontally. If vertical dispersion time to chrono results and take careful notes of velocities of suspect flyers. As Emerson031 stated 10 shot groups at 100yds will give you much greater insight than 5@50yds.

 

[GuideDog]

Group size is extremely ammo dependent. I find it difficult to resolve mid grade ammo inconsistencies at 50. At 100, especially with multiple 10 shot groups you will see the problem. As I shoot outside, when ammo testing I pay little attention to the horizontal dispersion. For me, SK will show about 15% high/low shots on paper at 100. Centerfire shooters transitioning to Rimfire usually do not understand the inconsistency inherent in Rimfire ammo.

Forgive my thoughts, but without paper targets showing multiple 10+ shot groups with data attached and your confusion about a scope base causing flyers, maybe doing a lot more data collection at the range will show you the answers you seek.

Here's what I do to compare. See photos.
Same ammo, Vudoo vs CZ457. This has always been how the CZ shoots. The Scope, barrel, both have been changed and at least 10 different ammo vendors. I thought it was the scope. I'm down to the scope base being the only variable other than the bolt or headspace. I did try reducing the headspace already and groups did not improve. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the CZ but when I removed and reinstalled the scope base the groups got larger on the CZ. I ordered another base, also contacted the vendor for the installed base. I'm not naming vendors until I finish troubleshooting.
The flyer on the Vudoo target was cold bore, first shot.

 

[bobby1028]

Not a huge discrepancy between the 2 cards posted above. Maybe the Vudoo chassis fits you a little better than your CZ rig ? 22lr amplifies cheek weld and trigger pull inconsistencies much more than a centerfire rig due to time in the barrel before launch, less forgiving than a round traveling 3x faster to exit the barrel. Spend some time watching benchrest shooters and how much or lack of input they physically put into the gun. You're overthinking it, step back, go back to basic fundamentals, and shoot it again. Alot of things need to be right when chasing that extra 10th benchrest.

 

[FuhQ]

Has anyone else had a problem with a DNT 7-35x56 not holding zero? My turrets do not "settle" between clicks. I have been using this scope for a few months now and have yet to get repeatable results meaning about every 6-10 rounds of 22lr I get about a 0.5 inch flyer. At first I thought ammo. Same ammo shoots without flyers in another rifle (Vudoo). This scopes on a CZ457. I should have swapped scopes but instead I somehow was convinced it was the barrel. I just replaced the barrel and it's THE SAME. I have another scope coming tomorrow so that should determine if it's the scope definitively. I'll post findings as soon as I can swap scopes, using the one on my Vudoo, Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 which the combo shoots perfect.

Anyone else had similar issues?

I hate to say this, but it does sound like the ammo/gun that's the problem. Not all comp ammo will shoot good in every gun. It might shoot better without fliers in the Voodoo, but have the occasional flyer in the CZ. I have this issue all the time with my Christensen Ranger 22 with CCI Standard Velocity. I get dropouts regularly, but I'm also not shoot comps...However, I do shoot 200-300 yards regularly with it. The scope is absolutely solid, and has never had any issues holding zero. That weak-link in the nature of rimfire .22LR is that it has inconsistent ignition, and in bulk-ammo incidents, it's the powder charge being inconsistent, as well. Comp ammo helps alleviate this, but the nature of rimfire will still almost always have a flier from inconsistent ignition, compared to a centerfire.

I would suggest trying a few different high-end comp ammo's and seeing if the problem persists.

 

[FuhQ]

If you get one flyer every 6-10 rounds I seriously doubt it's a scope related problem.

Bingo! All sings point to inconsistent ignition... The one major flaw in the rimfire case design.

 

[FuhQ]

So you all the same person? Why two names?

 

[GuideDog]

I hate to say this, but it does sound like the ammo/gun that's the problem. Not all comp ammo will shoot good in every gun. It might shoot better without fliers in the Voodoo, but have the occasional flyer in the CZ. I have this issue all the time with my Christensen Ranger 22 with CCI Standard Velocity. I get dropouts regularly, but I'm also not shoot comps...However, I do shoot 200-300 yards regularly with it. The scope is absolutely solid, and has never had any issues holding zero. That weak-link in the nature of rimfire .22LR is that it has inconsistent ignition, and in bulk-ammo incidents, it's the powder charge being inconsistent, as well. Comp ammo helps alleviate this, but the nature of rimfire will still almost always have a flier from inconsistent ignition, compared to a centerfire.

I would suggest trying a few different high-end comp ammo's and seeing if the problem persists.

I have tried almost all available match ammo. Lapua Center-x, Midas +, X-Act, SK match, Most of the entire Eley line. It's not the ammo. If anything about ignition it's the difference in firing pins. My Bergara and Vudoo both have a similar pin design. Both shoot tight groups. The CZ is the only one that keeps having this issue. Two others at the last Match are having similar issues too. I sat next to one, heard him and the other person discussing while looking at their targets. Yep, similar issue. Someone mentioned to watch others at a match, how little input is applied to the firearm. Oh I watch, still can't figure out why they are not winning and I am. I never shoot CCI in any of my match guns BTW. Vudoo should and does shoot better. It's the "golden" gun to use for reference to see if it's a bad lot of ammo. The Midas + last tested was not a bad lot of ammo. Sure the rifles are different but I expect with the same ammo they should shoot similar, meaning no flyers. I can understand group size changes, just not consistent random flyers. This sorta means something is changing, maybe loose. As mentioned could be headspace but I tried that with the factory barrel. No help. I'm planning to try reducing headspace again. A new, different brand scope rail has been ordered.

It's not the stock fitment either, it's the Manners fully adjustable stock, it's not difference from centerfire to rimfire flight time down the barrel of 2 milliseconds vs 6 milliseconds either.

With the $$ spent on different flavors of ammo plus a new barrel could have purchased another rifle.

I do thank everyone for the advice.

 

[FuhQ]

I have tried almost all available match ammo. Lapua Center-x, Midas +, X-Act, SK match, Most of the entire Eley line. It's not the ammo. If anything about ignition it's the difference in firing pins. My Bergara and Vudoo both have a similar pin design. Both shoot tight groups. The CZ is the only one that keeps having this issue. Two others at the last Match are having similar issues too. I sat next to one, heard him and the other person discussing while looking at their targets. Yep, similar issue. Someone mentioned to watch others at a match, how little input is applied to the firearm. Oh I watch, still can't figure out why they are not winning and I am. I never shoot CCI in any of my match guns BTW. Vudoo should and does shoot better. It's the "golden" gun to use for reference to see if it's a bad lot of ammo. The Midas + last tested was not a bad lot of ammo. Sure the rifles are different but I expect with the same ammo they should shoot similar, meaning no flyers. I can understand group size changes, just not consistent random flyers. This sorta means something is changing, maybe loose. As mentioned could be headspace but I tried that with the factory barrel. No help. I'm planning to try reducing headspace again. A new, different brand scope rail has been ordered.

It's not the stock fitment either, it's the Manners fully adjustable stock, it's not difference from centerfire to rimfire flight time down the barrel of 2 milliseconds vs 6 milliseconds either.

With the $$ spent on different flavors of ammo plus a new barrel could have purchased another rifle.

I do thank everyone for the advice.

Yeah, like I stated, you said this happens every 6th-10th shot, therefore this is definitely not a scope, or optical issue... This is definitely directly related to the ammo or ignition of said ammo. I'd just suck up the money and sell the CZ and get another Voodoo. Sounds like a flaw in the FP design in the CZ. I'd guarantee the same issue in my Christensen Ranger 22, since it does the same thing.

 

[GuideDog]

Yeah, like I stated, you said this happens every 6th-10th shot, therefore this is definitely not a scope, or optical issue... This is definitely directly related to the ammo or ignition of said ammo. I'd just suck up the money and sell the CZ and get another Voodoo. Sounds like a flaw in the FP design in the CZ. I'd guarantee the same issue in my Christensen Ranger 22, since it does the same thing.

I considered selling the CZ but I want a lightweight rig and convinced myself I didn't need 2 Vudoo's. Then Vudoo closed it's doors and is moving so they are very rare right now. One person at the club ordered one and prepaid to have the order canceled. I'm the only one right now at the local match shooting one. I took first place 6 time is 5 months (monthly matches). Yea, I blew one match, variable winds are hard to predict and someone else had better luck that day. I just put a Trijicon Tenmile 5x50-56 on it and love it. The SFP reticle is perfect and 50X mag rocks. I had a NF NX8 4-32-50 on it (FFP) and I thought that was good. The CZ had the DNT 7x35-56 on it. Nice scope but heavy. It may go on the Bergara B14-R. I'll shoot factory class with that one. With the barrel change on the CZ it no longer qualifies for factory, but it didn't with the MTR barrel either.

I was reading and it led me to play with the CZ trigger settings. I backed off on the pre-travel screw and I think it sounds like the firing pin is hitting harder. Maybe it's not but I'm hoping I stumbled onto a fix?? Yea, maybe wishful thinking.

Here's a pic of ammo tried, just a small sample.

 

[GuideDog]

Not a huge discrepancy between the 2 cards posted above. Maybe the Vudoo chassis fits you a little better than your CZ rig ? 22lr amplifies cheek weld and trigger pull inconsistencies much more than a centerfire rig due to time in the barrel before launch, less forgiving than a round traveling 3x faster to exit the barrel. Spend some time watching benchrest shooters and how much or lack of input they physically put into the gun. You're overthinking it, step back, go back to basic fundamentals, and shoot it again. Alot of things need to be right when chasing that extra 10th benchrest.

Let me explain the huge discrepancy. Scoring a match the CZ produced 5=9, meaning hitting the 9 ring 5 times. Vudoo shot perfect with zero 9's, hitting all 10's for a score of 250. Vudoo also hit 13=X meaning bullseyes. This is a huge discrepancy when shooting a match. It the difference of winning or loosing. I shoot benchrest and do watch the shooters. I watch their lack of input, using a machined rest and clamping their stock into the frame, pulling the trigger with only one finger touching. I'm amazed that I have been winning up against that setup with Vudoo. As is, I will never use that CZ in a match. It's not even good for a practice setup. Its not the difference of flight time down the barrel either. It's not basic fundamentals, I am winning with the Vudoo consistently. I don't shoot differently with the CZ. As explained in a different reply it has a fully adjustable Manners stock. The Vudoo fits exactly the same. I measured both. Cheek weld was slightly different due to the difference in scope mount on the DNT that was originally on the CZ. I took the Nighforce off the Vudoo and put it on the CZ. I Trijicon Tenmile 50x is now on the Vudoo. First match with it is the first Saturday of the month.