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Do I have a need to reload?

bm11

bm11

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2010
2,562
13
41
Maine
#1
Help me out with this.

From my math, I can reload .308 ammo for about $45 cents, give or take. This is after I invest in reloading equipment. My time is worth somewhere around $40-$50 an hour.

I can also buy Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain for about $1.10 a round, tax included. This price might not be good forever, but I can stock up a few thousand rounds at least. Maybe more, if the price and supply holds out another month or so.

The FGMM shoots about .25 moa or so out of my gun when I do everything right. I get one hole groups out of it. That being said, I don't expect I could do a whole lot better for accuracy with load development, and my time is at a premium.

Using those variables, will I achieve a cost benefit of reloading, or does it just take too long?

Thanks,

-BM
 
#2
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

bm11, reading your post I think you have already made up your mind. If the savings and personal satisfaction of loading your own dont outweigh the savings of your time spent doing it. Decision made.

I made the jump to hand loading when I was single. Now that I have a family and factory match ammo carries a premium price tag I'm glad I did it. Time factors will always be tight wheather it's the family or the job. I can say that I enjoy my range time a little more, shooting what I have produced.
 
#3
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

That would depend how many rounds per hour you can load. Discounting the initial cost to set up, at a .65 savings per round, you would need to load roughly 70 rounds per minute based on an average value of $45 per hour.

My interpretation. Buy me a reloading set-up and i'll do it for $30 per hour.
 
#5
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Well, I could do it with some spare time, if I set it up in the kitchen and was capable of holding a conversation while doing it. If I had to alienate myself from my family, I get precious little "alone time" away from work, best spent at the range.

I would benefit from the satisfaction of making my own, IF the performance was at least equal to what I was able to buy.

For those that have been doing this for a bit, answer me this: if precision is important, how long does it take you, start to finish, per 100 rounds, to reload?
 
#7
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I could do it with some spare time, if I set it up in the kitchen and was capable of holding a conversation while doing it. If I had to alienate myself from my family,
how long does it take you, start to finish, per 100 rounds, to reload? </div></div>

bm, distractions such as trying to carry on a conversation with someone while loading ammunition is unadvisable at best. I find it best to load in sollitude in order to maintain focus on the task at hand.

100 rounds starting with prepped, clean brass. Including priming, about 1 hour maybe less. This time is fugured using a Chargemaster1500. When my .308 gets back from the smith I plan on using the new 8208 XBR powder which meters very well through a manual powder dispenser. This should cut my time in half.

On days when a range trip is out of the question, brass cleaning and prep work is done. This is a function that doesnt require extream focus and TV and conversations are OK.
 
#8
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Your time only counts in the equation if reloading takes time away from doing whatever is making you $40-50 an hour.

So you don't watch and useless TV you could displace? Unless you're running through hundreds of rounds a month, it's not a big deal to stock up on brass, reload as time permits, and build a stock of ammo up ahead.
 
#12
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

The hourly rate argument only counts if your taking time off work to reload......

That being said if i could afford to shoot corbon, blackhills, or FGMM ammo without reloading i would.

I couldn't stand to go drop 100+ bucks a week on ammo when I can do it for half that or less for only a few hours of time.

Buy a bunch of factory ammo, shoot itup, save the brass and start reloading when you get bunch of empty's.

Or sell your empty's on here to me!
 
#13
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're posting on the internet you have time to load your own.

Depends how you want to spend your time or money. </div></div>I'm posting from work.
 
#14
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your time is worth $50 an hour then you are losing $2,800 dollars a week by sleeping. </div></div>More than that, I try to get 9 hours a night!
 
#15
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your time only counts in the equation if reloading takes time away from doing whatever is making you $40-50 an hour.
</div></div>The problem is the limited amount of free time. I can't justify spending my day off reloading if it's taking time away from the range. I can't head off to the basement if I get home at 8:20 and go to bed at 9:30, I need to spend the time with my wife.

However, as we get to discussing this, an hour here, an hour there, I might be able to do it. I can find a spare hour every now and then.
 
#16
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

If you are taking time away from work to reload then your doing it wrong. There are tons of ways to look at reloading. From the economics stand point it cost less per round to shoot but you end up shooting more. Thus the savings are nullified. If you are adding up having to figure the cost of the time you use reloading into the equation then you procedure needs to re-examined. Handloading is not about money, it is about getting the most from your ammunition and weapon. From an accuracy perspective it is the only way to go. You can tailor your ammo to your weapon. Having complete control over what you are feeding your weapon is invaluable. I look at it like this. When I had my 300 Weatherby the only way I could get the ammunition I wanted was to load it myself. No one offered what I wanted as a factory load. The same is said for all of my ammunition. And having the ability to load the exact ammunition I want is something that can't be measured in monetary terms.
 
#17
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your time only counts in the equation if reloading takes time away from doing whatever is making you $40-50 an hour.
</div></div>The problem is the limited amount of free time. I can't justify spending my day off reloading if it's taking time away from the range. I can't head off to the basement if I get home at 8:20 and go to bed at 9:30, I need to spend the time with my wife.

However, as we get to discussing this, an hour here, an hour there, I might be able to do it. I can find a spare hour every now and then. </div></div>

Easy fix. Get your wife to help you. Two can tango.
 
#18
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

It's good to go in with eyes as wide open as possible. Your time has value above that which is spent generating revenue.

Savings per se can be a little misleading when all the time spent doing case prep, load development, buying additional components and tools, and ultimately, loading the rounds you have worked so hard to develop for each rifle or pistol: Until some new powder, bullet or idea comes your way and you can't keep from trying it out!

At it's most basic however is the essence of certainty of supply. In your many reloading related transactions you will accrue an abundance of components and tools that at times may leave you wondering when if ever you'll use them all, but you may rest easy in the notion that at any time you make available, you can make your own ammunition.

I can;t promise my reloads are better than any factory ammunition extant but I know it is pretty damn good, I enjoy loading it, shooting it and take pleasure in the fact that I can make more whenever I choose!
 
#19
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

QQ has it right. By stocking up components and reloading when you can you will learn alot and have the means to provide yourself ammunition if it were to become difficult to find. Even with the initial equipment cost you will have the ability to have many more roudns for the money.
If in the future ammo is restricted, scarce, etc, then you can make your own from your stored components.
One more thing - your current rifle/barrel may love FGMM 168s. Is that the only rifle you will ever own?
 
#20
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

I learned more about ballistics and shooting in general by loading ammo than if I would have stuck with factory. Whatever the cost benefit or not, I am glad I went the handloading route.
 
#21
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

If you're shooting one hole groups and know that YOU are the only limiting factor keepin you from doing it consistantly, than to hell with reloading. Practice and start competing as much as possible, championships should be just around the corner
wink.gif
. Seriously, it dosn't sound like you have much if any interest in reloading.

okie
 
#23
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From my math, I can reload .308 ammo for about $45 cents, give or take. This is after I invest in reloading equipment. My time is worth somewhere around $40-$50 an hour. </div></div>

My reloading time comes from time I would be spending in front of the TV. Since the TV does not pay me to watch, my time watching TV is worth almost nothing to me.Thus, I can spend this otherwise wasted time in reloading and ...
 
#24
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Just buy factory ammo. I could only imagine how many more threads you would start about how do it reload, what equipment do I need and what loads work on your rifle...

Do you charge yourself money for sitting at home?
 
#25
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

The decision to reload or not has to be more about would you enjoy reloading and the result, going to the range and shooting something you made. It cant just be about money. Reloading IS expensive if you want to produce .25 MOA ammo.

To me thorw what it cost out the window. Thats not the factor to reload or not. The question is would you enjoy it? Would you get a sense of pride from it? If the answer to both is no then dont do it.
 
#26
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

25 yrs. ago I was reloading for the cost savings, now I do because I enjoy it. The time on the bench is more relaxing than tv. If the factory loads are attaining your desired accurracy, heck spend that extra time out shooting.

I don't look at reloading as a chore, and certainly don't do it to save money anymore. To each his own, maybe you can hook up with someone that is reloading now and spend a weekend afternoon checking it out. Life is too short to count all your time with dollar signs.
 
#27
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

It seems a lot of you guys really enjoy doing this, as seems to be the case with the guys I talk to at the range. If that is the case, than I can't simply look at it as a cost/benefit equation.

Furthermore, once I have a lot of these components, then I can start looking at shooting calibers such as .338 lapua that are cost prohibitive to buy.

I think I'll probably bite. I have a pretty good supply of brass at this point, and a pretty good supply of loaded FGMM.
 
#28
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me out with this.

From my math, I can reload .308 ammo for about $45 cents, give or take. This is after I invest in reloading equipment. My time is worth somewhere around $40-$50 an hour.

I can also buy Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain for about $1.10 a round, tax included. This price might not be good forever, but I can stock up a few thousand rounds at least. Maybe more, if the price and supply holds out another month or so.

The FGMM shoots about .25 moa or so out of my gun when I do everything right. I get one hole groups out of it. That being said, I don't expect I could do a whole lot better for accuracy with load development, and my time is at a premium.

Using those variables, will I achieve a cost benefit of reloading, or does it just take too long?

Thanks,

-BM </div></div>

Let's look at some real world figures for a 308 winny:

My baseline is 1000 rounds Factory fresh vs Reloads. I'm using 1000 rounds because my reloads average 10 reloadings, and I'm trying to normalize the initial cost of the brass:

First Factory: You stated a cost of $1.10 per round. Therefore it cost you $22.00 per box of 20. So for 1000 rounds you would need to buy 50 boxes.

50 x $22.00 = $1100.00

Now Reloads for 1000 rounds:

Win Brass $42.00 per 100
Sierra 168 SMK's $280.00 per 1000
Primers $ 38.00 per 1000 For Federal 210M primers
Powder $110.00 per 1000 shots @ 46 grains per shot of Varget.

Total cost of 1000 reloads = $470.00

But if you buy factory Federal you could sell your once fired brass for maybe $.20 each, so that's $200.00 per 1000 you could recoup back.

So the new totals are:

Factory FGMM per 1000 = $1100.00 less $200.00 = $900.00
Reload cost per 1000 = $470.00

Net "savings" per 1000 308 Win Rounds = $430.00

For your first $1100.00 you would have spent in buying that first 1000 factory rounds, you can buy some outstanding reloading equipment. You could totally recoup that $1100. investment after reloading only 2558 rounds. After that it is all "profit".

I have not considered the "time cost" of reloading 1000 rounds. I did this because your free time is in fact free.

If is not "free", then how long does it take to go to the range (travel time, gas, et al) and fire 1000 factory rounds? 500-800 minutes maybe? If your time is worth $45-$50 an hour, I'm sure you could hire someone to shoot your rifle for only $20-$25 an hour. Lot's of "saving's" there....

Bob




 
#29
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Reloading will always be less expensive. Do you shoot a lot? If no then factory ammo may be the way to go as the initial cost to get started in reloading will take more time to amortize. Do you want to reload (a lot of people do)? If not then again factory may be a better option. I shoot factory because the calibers I choose have manufactures that provide excellent accuracy and I don't shoot that much now (when I competed in handgun and shotgun I did because of the high volume required). I also reloaded for a particular hunting rifle because no accurate factory ammo existed.
 
#30
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

"My time is worth somewhere around $40-$50 an hour."

If you can get that much for your spare time, go to work and buy ammo.
 
#31
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Guys, I don't have a lot of spare time. I work quite a bit, and on top of that, I have a lot of time wrapped up in going to the gym, food prep, etc. If I had a lot of time to use up, I wouldn't have started this thread. I don't spend much time watching TV, I'm lucky to watch one movie a month, I have an 09 Harley I haven't been on in over a month, my time is at a premium, and that was the point.

I think though that this is still something I want to try, for the satisfaction of it.
 
#32
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

bm11,

1) Muscle stem machines. Hook them up, go to sleep. Work outs taken care of. Theres 5 to 7 hours a week saved right there.

2) Get married, hire a maid or dine out. 7 to 10 hours of food prep and cooking free'd up. ( This may end up costing more than ammo, although time savings was the parameter set )

All smart-ass comments aside, you will enjoy your shooting allot more (most of the time) if you roll your own.
 
#33
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Give it a try. If nothing else it'll add more depth to a hobby you already enjoy. I can't say that it is a big money saver because I'm always tweaking things and trying new things out. It's a hobby just like shooting. Sure it takes time, but it's very rewarding. I'm also very lucky that my 77 year old dad likes to reload and it's something we can do together. Give it a try!
 
#34
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

You can buy a single stage press, complete reloading kit if you like. That will save you some money vs. piecing it all together. I pieced mine together because I wanted to get the best of each tool that I could and I didn't want to spend my money all in one transaction. I spread mine out over several months. Just look at it this way there are only four components to a loaded cartrige. Brass case, primer, powder, and bullet. Of those the cases are virtually free if you've already fired them once from factory ammo out of your rifle.

I agree with what has been previously posted. Handloading allows you to make ammunition specific to what you are going to be doing with the rifle. For instance I use my Savage .308 to target shoot and hunt deer, hogs, and predators with. The target shooting requires different loads for different expected ranges. I can also load ammo specific to what I am going to be hunting with the rifle.

As far as time spent goes. Like previously stated 20 minutes a day can make a significant difference. For example, you can trim, chamfer, debur, and prime several cases in 20 minutes. Then stop and revisit it again the next time you have the opportunity. Once you get the number of cases you want prepped; load your powder charge and seat your bullet on the next session. I have to do it this way all the time. Documentation is paramount when you spread it out like this.

By the way, at what range did the Federals produce .25 MOA? And I don't mean to appear that I'm calling you out at all. I never found factory ammo for my rifle that would do that beyond 100 yards. Heck I never found factory ammo that would produce sub 1 MOA at 100 yards.
 
#35
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

"...my time is at a premium, and that was the point."

My point was there is no way we can tell you what value you should put on anything, that's YOUR decision!
 
#36
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way, at what range did the Federals produce .25 MOA? And I don't mean to appear that I'm calling you out at all. I never found factory ammo for my rifle that would do that beyond 100 yards. Heck I never found factory ammo that would produce sub 1 MOA at 100 yards. </div></div>At 100 yards, and I can do it about half the time. I do believe it is me, and not the gun or the ammo when I don't get that accuracy. I'm just getting started out with this. When I go out to 200m, my accuracy falls off, but again, I think that is me, and not the rifle.

Jbell tried my rifle and ammo at 200m, I don't remember the exact group size he got with my ammo, but it was around .5moa. I have seen a few 5 shot groups he has shot with his TRG and handloads measuring .4 at 200 meters though, which is better than anything I have seen out of mine.

I am going to give it a go. I'll find the time!
 
#37
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

When I first bought my reloading equipment, it was for the cost savings, I bought what I think to be an excellent setup, not all high end but very usable and should be a lifetimes worth of equipment (excluding dies and components) and I believe I am very close to breaking even (something like 2k worth of ammo produced). No that everything is bought and paid for, reloading has become more of a hobby for me, its relaxing, and being able to make exactly what I want for ammo has taken center stage.

You could make 100 rnds of accurate 308 ammo from "scratch" in 2hrs a week I bet. Preping fired brass will take a bit longer but certainly not over 3hrs per week. I bet you could find an hour of time three times a week.
 
#38
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are taking time away from work to reload then your doing it wrong. There are tons of ways to look at reloading. From the economics stand point it cost less per round to shoot but you end up shooting more. Thus the savings are nullified. If you are adding up having to figure the cost of the time you use reloading into the equation then you procedure needs to re-examined. Handloading is not about money, it is about getting the most from your ammunition and weapon. From an accuracy perspective it is the only way to go. You can tailor your ammo to your weapon. Having complete control over what you are feeding your weapon is invaluable. I look at it like this. When I had my 300 Weatherby the only way I could get the ammunition I wanted was to load it myself. No one offered what I wanted as a factory load. The same is said for all of my ammunition. And having the ability to load the exact ammunition I want is something that can't be measured in monetary terms. </div></div>

Bingo, I cant agree more. I'm very new to reloading and can tell this is going to be nice and relaxing also..
 
#39
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can say that I enjoy my range time a little more, shooting what I have produced. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jet_lagged</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Unless you do it as a hobby to relax!
</div></div>

Its a hobby to most and a way to use your relaxation time to be productive. Some people read books and sip tea. Others reload
and work with their hands and minds. If your not going to enjoy it and make it more of a job than a hobby then reloading
probably wouldn't be your thing.
 
#41
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

Start by saving all the brass from the ammo you buy.

The savings is realized by RE-loading that brass you have already bought.

Do it in batches. Resize a large number of cases one night, clean primer pockets and necks later, prime them all another night, then when you have time without distractions, charge cases and seat bullets.

A "large number" of cases will vary person to person, but I think you get my drift.

My point is that you can manage your time by how you go through the process.

Others will have a different slant on this, but this works for me and it breaks it down and keeps it enjoyable and not drudgery.

Paul
 
#42
Re: Do I have a need to reload?

+1 on pjparkers comments

I got netflix on my PC in the office so i could have something on in the background to keep my mind off the drudgery....but if that is a distraction for you then maybe not a good idea.
 
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