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Do I need a muzzle-break?

earthquake

earthquake

Area Man
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Minuteman
    • Jul 30, 2009
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    USA
    I'm looking at the next step in the "evolution" of my bolt gun, .308 with a 20" Bartlein M40 contour barrel. I've done just about everything I can to it with the exception of a fancy trigger. Right now for the foreseeable future, a suppressor is out of my reach financially. So, I thought about getting a break.

    <span style="text-decoration: underline">Do I need one?</span> I never used one when shooting the M40A1 in the Corps. But it seems like they are very popular, even on smaller caliber rifles now.

    I'm just not sure of the advantages for the price (<span style="font-style: italic">purchase and gunsmith fees</span>). I would like to start getting into comps and I hear follow-up shots are faster with a break. How much faster?

    How many of you guys use them and are they worth it? I've looked at the Surefire breaks, that's about it. I like the idea of being able to attach a suppressor on that break if I ever get to that point. What other breaks should I consider?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    I just got my first apa little bastard it is awesome sucks for the people around you but it is very effective
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    with 14 shoulder surgeries I can tell you brakes work. Recoil of a heavy stocked and barreled .308 is not bad at all. With a brake recoil is reduced in my estimation by 20-40%. Being behind the gun all day is much more pleasurable and for me the only way I could be is because of a brake.

    Follow up shots and ability to see long range splashes through your scope are some of the pro's to brakes. I have numerous dealings with various models but my opinion is the Vias brake is the most effective without sticking out like a sore thumb. The Gap Titan and BO thruster are also good.

    I am not as fast back on target now with a brake as I was before my injury without one. I really can't shoot without one any more due to my injury. I have a Miculek on my .223's and it works really good fwiw. A nice addition to any set up where less felt recoil is acceptable over the extra noise.


    Note that many comps do not allow brakes.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    Ummm, I don't think breaking your muzzle will help your shooting at all.

    How about thinking in terms of a brake?
    Then again, unless you're very recoil sensitive, the 308 should not need one.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    If you are looking at competing, yes you want a BRAKE.

    While I don't like to use brakes on any rifle I don't have to (noise, cost, etc.), they serve a distinct purpose on a competition rifle. In training your goal is to get straight behind the rifle to control recoil. This is not a luxury you get in competition or the real world.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Oops...back to spelling skool for me!
    blush.gif
    Thanks for the correction!

    The recoil on this rifle does not bother me at all...it kicks like a kitten. Though I do have trouble seeing misses when shooting at steel targets when I don't have someone spotting for me. Unless I'm shooting at 1k yards, I don't have enough time to get the rifle back on target to see where I hit/miss.

    Maybe I'm just not loading the bipod correctly or enough. How many that shoot a .308 lose the sight picture during recoil? I wouldn't think I should be getting that much movement out of a 16lb. rifle.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oops...back to spelling skool for me!
    blush.gif
    Thanks for the correction! </div></div>

    No problem!
    Just yankin' yer chain a little.
    You know, once you get the barrel threaded, a brake will screw off or on so you can actually have the best of both worlds.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hi Speed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Note that many comps do not allow brakes. </div></div>

    I did not know that...what's the reason?
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    What shoot for fun said, get your barrel threaded with a thread protector. And get a tactical muzzle brake of some sort that you can tighten yourself.

    I personally have them on all my rifles. Almost not reason not too.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    I might be wrong but f class or ft/r has rules stating no use. I might be wrong as I only compete in tactical matches that are hardly sanctioned by anybody other than the shooters.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Thanks for the replies. I think I'll have my barrel threaded so I can put on whatever I want eventually be it brake or suppressor. Are most models of brakes ones that you can tighten yourself for easy removal/swapping?
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hi Speed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Note that many comps do not allow brakes. </div></div>

    I did not know that...what's the reason? </div></div>

    Most of the time it is because they guy shooting next to you gets knocked off target by the blast. Two years ago, the shooter next to me at the Oregon State Sniper Challenge lost all his points on the Know Your Limit stage when I shot right before he did. I felt pretty bad about it since he was a Swat Team Member from the County I was from.
    I tell you what, my .300winmag with 190gr. JLK's shooting at 3100fps needs the brake even at 16lbs.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Brakes have to be timed by precise threading and/or crush washer. For instance, my .223's brake is canted slightly to keep the gun on target when shooting unsupported. This is contrary to what you'd want when squared up behind the rifle in the prone position.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Does a Can help any with muzzle control? Maybe I'll just put the money for a brake towards a Can. I've been told, "Don't get a Can, get a brake.", "Don't get a brake, get a Can."

    Though, I've seen a LOT of Cans at comps.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Get yourself a good trigger like a Jewell. This will help you quite a bit.

    Also, take a look at JP Enterprises brakes. They are very effective.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Most people shoot much better with the suppressor on. It kills off most the blast and concussion if you are shooting a larger round. On the 308 it really cuts back the recoil and everything else that can wear on you when shooting a lot. Probably slightly more push than a 223 bolt gun.

    Also, something to think about, it does not just reduce the recoil; I will make the "kick" must less sharp and more of a push.

    Brakes are nice and easy to get compared to the suppressor, but the can is BY FAR more fun to shoot with.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Do you NEED a brake on a 308? No. But it sure is nice! Just cause some guys are tough guys and think recoil is apart of being a man, doesn't mean you have to deal with it haha It definitely helps with spotting hits/misses, and since you wear hearing protection when shooting anyways, the extra noise is negligible. But it makes shooting just that much more fun.

    Yes, a can would be great. They are just plain awesome if you can swing it. As for brake selection, it's like caliber, everyone has their personal favorite (or the only one they've ever used). But they will all help out and you will enjoy them. Most, even if it's not a clamp on style, if put on by a smith and timed, will thread on and off and return to the same orientation. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

    I was on the fence for 6 months about getting one. Tossed it over constantly. Since then, all my guns have/will have a brake on. Shootings just more enjoyable...unless you're next to someone shooting one haha
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    i use muzzle brakes on most of my guns. I see allot of old time shooters with busted shoulders, i have to assume from recoil because it always seems to be the shoulder they fire from. Ha , those guys become pistol shooters
    grin.gif



    I dont want to become them.

    but i agree people should not use muzzle brakes at the range though, most people don't wear eye protection and allot of bystanders have damaged their vision from being near a brake... so i hear. A smart person would not sit next to someone with a brake.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...most people don't wear eye protection and allot of bystanders have damaged their vision from being near a brake... so i hear.</div></div>

    Whose fault is that--the shooters or the person who didn't use PPE in a potentially hazardous situation?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A smart person would not sit next to someone with a brake. </div></div>

    Correction--"A smart person would not go to the range, even as a bystander or spectator without eyes/ears on"
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    Muzzle breaks are quite effective at taming recoil, muzzle rise etc. and I've found them extremely useful when teaching others , especially younger shooters, to shoot. Yes they are extremly loud for the guy next to you. It's all personal preference and a lot of times the cost does not outweigh the benefits for some.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    I used an M40A3 in school until during UKD my gun went down and I finished the day on my partners M40A5 (has a surefire break). A break isn't really needed but man was there a difference in felt recoil. The one thing to keep in mind is that with a break you're gonna have to check the areas to your side for the blast. IMHO if you do go with one though a surefire break is hard to beat.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: supersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get yourself a good trigger like a Jewell. This will help you quite a bit.</div></div>

    Huh?

    First, Jewell triggers are not a good idea for field rifles. Second, no matter what trigger he installs, it will have no bearing on driving the rifle through recoil.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    I have an M40 contour .243 and the brake is negligible to me. That makes for a heavy enough rig in .308 that I don't think you gain much. I do run that gun with a brake when my kids are shooting it but only because it does make a difference to them since I outweigh all of them from 70-120#. With the same barrel contour and T2 stock on my 30/06 I can tell a big difference with the brake. The place a brake shines for me is in unsupported and awkward field positions vs prone shooting. No offense meant at all but if you are having trouble with spotting shots shooting prone with a 16# .308 I would look more at driving the gun (straight behind the gun,square shoulders, trigger control,etc,etc), loading the bipod and follow through vs a brake as a remedy. I am no high speed or shooting expert that is just my experience in the journey to shooting better.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    That PRC or FSC30 from Primary Weapons will include a crush washer or shims to install the brake, no need to have it timed by a gunsmith, just make sure the ports are oriented as per the manual.

    After getting the barrel threaded to 5/8x24 the brakes mentioned above are a 5 minute install at home.

    Of the two, I prefer the FSC30 for a .308; the PRC's bore diameter is a little too large for a .308 as it's bored out to accomodate a .338 as well.

    The FSC30 also includes short flash hider prongs, which are useful if you shoot after sundown.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ofelas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That PRC or FSC30 from Primary Weapons will include a crush washer or shims to install the brake, no need to have it timed by a gunsmith, just make sure the ports are oriented as per the manual.

    After getting the barrel threaded to 5/8x24 the brakes mentioned above are a 5 minute install at home.

    Of the two, I prefer the FSC30 for a .308; the PRC's bore diameter is a little too large for a .308 as it's bored out to accomodate a .338 as well.

    The FSC30 also includes short flash hider prongs, which are useful if you shoot after sundown.</div></div>

    The FSC30 has a horrible ground signature and blows shit all over the place whereas the PRC does not. Don't get me wrong, I really like the FSC30 and I recommend it to anyone for a CQB role but for a precision rifle, the PRC comes out on top.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Valid point; I have the FSC30 on an AR10.

    There are other good brakes out there for a .308 with a bore diameter of 20 thou over, the PRC is almost 60 thou over, not optimal for a PR; it is a one size fits all, works decently enough, I gave it to a buddy for his .338 Win Mag.




    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ofelas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That PRC or FSC30 from Primary Weapons will include a crush washer or shims to install the brake, no need to have it timed by a gunsmith, just make sure the ports are oriented as per the manual.

    After getting the barrel threaded to 5/8x24 the brakes mentioned above are a 5 minute install at home.

    Of the two, I prefer the FSC30 for a .308; the PRC's bore diameter is a little too large for a .308 as it's bored out to accomodate a .338 as well.

    The FSC30 also includes short flash hider prongs, which are useful if you shoot after sundown.</div></div>

    The FSC30 has a horrible ground signature and blows shit all over the place whereas the PRC does not. Don't get me wrong, I really like the FSC30 and I recommend it to anyone for a CQB role but for a precision rifle, the PRC comes out on top. </div></div>
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    I use an AAC brake on a 20" 308 and while it does reduce the recoil the noise/blast is obnoxious to me. You better have plugs and ear muffs on.

    With a suppressor it isn't an issue, but without a can I would rather deal with recoil over the noise from the brake.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Having the brake a little bigger doesn't hurt accuracy. I have Surefire 338 can adapters on my .308 and 300WM and they are very accurate with the 338 brake.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    Well thanks for all the discussion here guys. Lots to consider. If I do get a brake, I've narrowed it down to two that I'm looking at, the Surefire 211C, and the ones made by RWS here on the hide. BIG price difference for sure.

    I like the Surefire brakes because I could eventually get one of their suppressors and put it right on w/o removing the brake, and it is more in line with what the USMC is using since I'm trying to get my rifle as close as possible to an M40A3/5. But, those RWS brakes sure look nice, seem to be popular and the price is outstanding. Decisions, decisions.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-brake?

    I have a JP brake on my Savage 10PC (.308) and it works great. When I put the brake on I was able to see all my hits/splashes through my optic. I have used the surefire brakes as well and they are great. The JP seemed to work a little better, but you can't put a can on a JP either.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    I think I just found something that would be perfect for me and save me a ton of dough.

    SAS Suppressor/Brake Combo

    Anybody here run these and can comment on them? Seem to be very similar to Surefire, but for 1/3 the cost?
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    If your shoulder is weak and undeveloped and you eat milk soaked toast for breakfast, lunch and dinner, then you may need a muzzle brake for a .308.
    If you have a strong shoulder, shoot regularly and a 308 feels like it doesn't have a whole lot of recoil, well, maybe you just need...to shoot more than 40 rounds at a time
    wink.gif
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    But...but...I load my .308 with 150 grains of Varget and push 190gr. SMK's at 4,500 fps...so yeah, it kicks some.
    wink.gif
    Am I doing it wrong?
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    If your eyes are weak and undeveloped and you eat fruit loops for breakfast, lunch and dinner, then you may need a scope for a .308.
    If you have strong eyesight and a target feels like it's between 500 & a 1000 yards, well, maybe you just need...to eat your damn carrots & use those iron sights
    cool.gif

     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    No you don't need it spend he extra money on ammo and shoot. And a six pack of tall boys " a tall boy is a 20 oz beer " for those who wondered if I was gay for a moment.
    I love panocha!
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now for the foreseeable future, a suppressor is out of my reach financially. So, I thought about getting a break.

    I've looked at the Surefire breaks, that's about it. I like the idea of being able to attach a suppressor on that break if I ever get to that point. What other breaks should I consider?

    Thanks in advance.

    I'm just not sure of the advantages for the price (purchase and gunsmith fees).</div></div>

    I use that exact setup right now,

    surefire break and i have their 7.62FAK can..... so start with their MB then save up for their can... you wont be dissapointed.

    Fee's... my smith charges 75 for threading, and 175 to thread and include a Vais break.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin4590</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thread the barrel that way you can screw on a break or a supressor later on when you get the money </div></div>

    Pardon another possibly dumb question, but since I don't think I've ever shot a rifle that had a brake, if I go this route, are there brakes that are made to be removed by the user and other brakes that are more "permanent", or are they all user removable w/o the use of tools? How do I know the difference so I buy the right one? i.e. if I buy a Surefire brake and an SAS or TBAC suppressor.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    I was thinking about getting a brake also. Do they need to be timed or can they just be threaded on and what is involved with timing one
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    Muzzle break on a .308 does allow you to see your hits due to less muzzle rise.
    POI may change depending on rifle, barrel,load etc.
    So re-zero with brake and leave on if you like em.
    I removed mine from my rem 700 simply because I will on occasion hunt with the thing, and I dont wear hearing protection when I hunt.
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    I have had a nagging shoulder injury for some time. I finally gave up and had a muzzle brake installed on my rifle. I absolutely love the thing. I also changed calibers out too, and I am now shooting a .243WIN, I really wish I had made that change a long time ago.

    I got an RWS brake, and had the threading on my barrel timed. It isn't that had to do for an experienced gunsmith. It just takes a little bit of time, some patience, and know-how. The timing part is just to ensure that a brake with specific holes are pointed in the proper direction. Top holes facing up, side holes facing outward. Not a big deal at all.

    The only problem that I have had with a muzzle brake is, my girlfriend wants my rifle for her own!! LOL

    DK

    IMAG0031.jpg

    IMAG0154a.jpg
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    My brake is threaded and timed and also removeable. I had it done this way specifically to swap it out when I decide to go the suppressor route. Hopefully, that will be soon.

    Yes, there is always the blast that is directed to shooters sitting next to you. That part is unavoidable with a brake. It isn't a problem at all if you are on the line by yourself.

    DK
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    some more fuel for the fire,,,,couple things to consider, 1st, timing is simply threading the brake on until the exaust ports face horizontally to reduce ground signature(dust blast that coats your neighbors S&B PMII). Some people(some top end guys) believe that the pressurized predictable column of air in the brake may help the bullet leave cleaner(w/less gyroscopic oscillation), third, with less muzzle flip happening some say you decrease yaw some....is that all true?? hard to prove but is makes some common sense....getting off shots faster certainly true but for me, the amount of time saved isn't usually relevant. Hope this rambling help someone......yes most of my precision rifles wear brakes....
     
    Re: Do I need a muzzle-break?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rubicon1996</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking about getting a brake also. Do they need to be timed or can they just be threaded on and what is involved with timing one </div></div>

    A timed brake is a brake with a top/bottom etc. A non timed brake has holes that go all the way around (no top/bottom) If you get a timed brake the brake will have to be either timed by a smith so the top of the brake sits at the 12 o'clock position of the gun, or you can use shims or crush washers to time it yourself. If you get a non timed brake you can just screw it on and it doesn't mater where the brake thightens up because the holes on the brake are the same all the way around.

    Hope this makes sense. IDK how to explane it any better. lol
     
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