Doublestar - WTF?

500grains

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Some guy was trying to pass off Doublestar to me as some sort of premium AR. I always considered them at the low end, on par with the likes of Olympic, DPMS, Model 1 Sales, etc. Am I being unfair to Doublestar?
 

ORD

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Re: Doublestar - WTF?

They are okay, but nowhere near what I would rate as a "Premium AR" by any means.

Of the mfgs you listed, I would rate DPMS over all the others, but Doublestar, M1S and Oly are all in about the same class.

Now, with that said, I suppose that you could use a Doublestar lower to build a "Premium" rifle...but WHY?!?! They do offer some alleged "custom" rifles that offer a lot of features not found on their bargain basement, basic lineup (running DD rails, Wilson match barrels, Magpul PRS/MIAD, etc.) They are pricey and I haven't seen any that would outshoot a rack-grade RRA Varmint or similar rifle for significantly less money.
 

doc76251

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Re: Doublestar - WTF?

There was a post somewhere in the past that listed the 3 manufacturers of "standard" AR lowers and all the companies that they supplied. From the names on the list that I vaguely remember, a lot of "high end" lowers came from the same place as the "low end" lowers. Same same with uppers.

Cheers,

Doc
 

excess

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Re: Doublestar - WTF?

I've also been told most of the forgings are sourced from just a few places.
 

Strangedays

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    Premium ARs don't have double star in their name. Most ARs are great but I didn't see a premium name mentioned above.
     

    krink85

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    I have heard the same but this was at a gun show so it is to me unreliable. I purchased an aeropreision lower from the guy who did have a no BS attitude and did not try to sell big names. Time to go hit up google...
     

    younggun22

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    Built my premium AR on a double star lower and it shoots great. AS far as lowers go make sure its hardened anodized aluminum and the holes are in the right spots, after that find a logo you like and build it up...
     

    ORD

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was a post somewhere in the past that listed the 3 manufacturers of "standard" AR lowers and all the companies that they supplied. From the names on the list that I vaguely remember, a lot of "high end" lowers came from the same place as the "low end" lowers. Same same with uppers.

    Cheers,

    Doc </div></div>

    This is accurate (at least in part). The number of actual manufacturers of lower are few compared to the number of comapnies buying them, putting their roll marks on them and selling them as x-brand lowers. Here is the list:

    LMT makes lowers for LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
    CMT makes lowers for Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske (old), Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI (1st batch), Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
    LAR makes lowers for Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton, Spike's Tactical, Noveske (new)

    There are a few others, but that is the short list. Also, this is for forged only...billet lowers are a whole other ballgame.

    As for this discussion, JVP is the supplier of forgings for Double Star that they use for their lowers.
     

    dareposte

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    Doublestar has a factory right near me here in KY. I use their lowers often b/c they're a local company and the quality is good.

    I don't think of it as a match grade "premium" quality AR, but I do think it's a cut above M1S. They're not a rebrander, they actually forge and machine their own product right up the street.

    The lowers used to sell for $89 all over the place around here before the election, but lately they've been $119-$129.
     

    LSOSGT1109

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    Premium? I don't know about that but they are pretty damn good! I wish I'd never sold the one that I had. I would say that it was every bit as good as the Rock Rivers that I've had and I liked it much better than the Colt 6920 that I had! The Colt had alot of play between the upper and lower. The Doublestar was tight like my Rock Rivers.
     

    Glen Seekins

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    With forgings, just pick the logo you like best. I have samples from every manufacture (there are 7) and they are all the same tolerance wise. Only 2, possibly 3 places make the actual forging. I just rejected 200 forgings from a "good" forging company if that tells you anything.

    Spikes tactical has some blem ones on sale that just have cosmetic coating blemish if you are looking for a cheap one.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doublestar has a factory right near me here in KY. I use their lowers often b/c they're a local company and the quality is good.

    I don't think of it as a match grade "premium" quality AR, but I do think it's a cut above M1S. They're not a rebrander, they actually forge and machine their own product right up the street.

    The lowers used to sell for $89 all over the place around here before the election, but lately they've been $119-$129. </div></div>

    They don't forge or CNC anything at their Winchester location. They order in their lowers from the same place that most others do. I have been to their facility. Its nothing special and run by jerks. The owner is going to run that place into the ground letting his mommy boss him around. I can't stand them and how they treat their local customers. I wont purchase anything from them.

    Direct from their website

    "DoubleStar buys the best U.S. Mil-Spec parts available for all of its rifles."
     

    dareposte

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    They don't forge anything. They order in their lowers from the same place that most others do. I have been to their facility. Its nothing special and run by jerks. The owner is going to run that place into the ground letting his mommy boss him around. I can't stand them and how they treat their local customers. I wont purchase anything from them. </div></div>

    I stand corrected, never been in their facility but apparently it's not all that I'd heard it was.
     

    KYS

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    Whoever told you they forge and CNC their own parts are liars. They dont do much more then basic rifle assembly. Their facility is far from impressive. They are Class 3 dealers but sure as hell don't act like they care about your business.
     

    LSOSGT1109

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doublestar has a factory right near me here in KY. I use their lowers often b/c they're a local company and the quality is good.

    I don't think of it as a match grade "premium" quality AR, but I do think it's a cut above M1S. They're not a rebrander, they actually forge and machine their own product right up the street.

    The lowers used to sell for $89 all over the place around here before the election, but lately they've been $119-$129. </div></div>

    They don't forge or CNC anything at their Winchester location. They order in their lowers from the same place that most others do. I have been to their facility. Its nothing special and run by jerks. The owner is going to run that place into the ground letting his mommy boss him around. I can't stand them and how they treat their local customers. I wont purchase anything from them.

    Direct from their website

    "DoubleStar buys the best U.S. Mil-Spec parts available for all of its rifles." </div></div>


    KyShooter, I have heard that they are jerks. The guy that owns Ky Outdoorsman down here in Corbin doesn't stock them because he says he can't deal with them. He's a hell of a nice guy so they would have to be pretty bad for him not to be able to get along with them! In my post above I was just referring to my exprience with their rifles. The one I had was a pretty damn good rifle, especially for the money!
     

    KYS

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    I could tell several stories about how the did me with my suppressor transfers. They went so far as to lie to me about being able to pick them up because their computers were down..... I said thats fine but when I prove they work you will hear from me again. I ordered a few small parts and they showed up the next morning. I called them back and let them know if they could fill an internet order they had no reason they could not release my class 3 items in which do not require a computer. The logout is done by hand in a large binder.

    They once told me I couldnt pick up my 408CT suppressor because they were having their driveway worked on and concreted. So I asked them how they all planned on getting down at quitting time. They told me it would be dry by then, and I said "oh really, because that is what my company does and I know for a fact it will take at least 24hrs to dry out that much concrete. So unless you all plan on sleeping there I know your are lying to me again. I want to pick up my items".

    These are just a few of the lies they told me personally. I have heard many others from their group. They are not honorable business people!

    Their problem is they think their shit doesn't stink. They roll around town thinking they are so untouchable because they are the only ones who supply parts and make rifles. That is not the case anymore.... They are about to get knocked off their high horse.
     

    dareposte

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could tell several stories about how the did me with my suppressor transfers. They went so far as to lie to me about being able to pick them up because their computers were down..... I said thats fine but when I prove they work you will hear from me again. I ordered a few small parts and they showed up the next morning. I called them back and let them know if they could fill an internet order they had no reason they could not release my class 3 items in which do not require a computer. The logout is done by hand in a large binder.

    They once told me I couldnt pick up my 408CT suppressor because they were having their driveway worked on and concreted. So I asked them how they all planned on getting down at quitting time. They told me it would be dry by then, and I said "oh really, because that is what my company does and I know for a fact it will take at least 24hrs to dry out that much concrete. So unless you all plan on sleeping there I know your are lying to me again. I want to pick up my items".

    These are just a few of the lies they told me personally. I have heard many others from their group. They are not honorable business people! </div></div>

    Good to know, thanks for sharing. I'll remember that next time I'm in the market for a new lower, I hate bad business like that. Strange it's the first I'd heard of them not being reputable but I'm glad to hear it straight. Aside from their reputation, I've never had any problem with their lowers, I've got them on several builds and not a hiccup out of any of them.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    Well like I said I don't deal with people I can't get along with. And their lowers come from the same place that the "big boys" get theirs from..... they just have their name stamped on them.

    I just wanted to share my dealings with them. I feel like I took over the post which was not my intentions.
     

    younggun22

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well like I said I don't deal with people I can't get along with. And their lowers come from the same place that the "big boys" get theirs from..... they just have their name stamped on them.

    I just wanted to share my dealings with them. I feel like I took over the post which was not my intentions. </div></div>

    I bought it cause it was cheap but they sound like dickheads and I found local guys who I would rather give my money to. Thanks for the heads up.
     

    Tactical30

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    When all is said and done, a lower is a lower. Just because it has a "premium" name on it is not going to make you shoot anymore accurate.

    If you took say (example)the 5.56 Version of the OBR from Larue and swapped out the Larue Billet lower with a Doublestar lower would it shoot less accurate? I highly dought it.

    What makes the AR-platform is the Barrel, Trigger, Optic and Optic mount.

    When your paying twice as much money for a "premium" lower all you paying for is the name and look of it. It has nothing to do with accuracy in my point of view. As long as it has a barrel that shoots really well (sub-moa @ 600yrds or less)and a crisp trigger I could care less what the name on the Lower reciever says.
     

    SANDRAT

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some guy was trying to pass off Doublestar to me as some sort of premium AR. I always considered them at the low end, on par with the likes of Olympic, DPMS, Model 1 Sales, etc. Am I being unfair to Doublestar? </div></div>

    Hell no,unfair to DPMS,Maybe.I bought a Doublestar bolt and firing pin from a local gunshop thinking it was a RRA,got it home and assembled,outside to test fire,and nothing!! Took it apart and found the FP would not come forward enough to impinge the primer,measured both the FP and bolt against a genuine RRA.The FP was short and the bolt was long.Took it back and they fessed up they were carrying Doublestar parts.Told 'em I'd come back when they started carring quality again.

    Best way to get a quality AR is build it yourself,that way you can pick all the parts,do a little research and you might be surprised at how nice a custom you can do for less than a factory rifle.
     

    dareposte

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When all is said and done, a lower is a lower. Just because it has a "premium" name on it is not going to make you shoot anymore accurate.

    If you took say (example)the 5.56 Version of the OBR from Larue and swapped out the Larue Billet lower with a Doublestar lower would it shoot less accurate? I highly dought it.

    What makes the AR-platform is the Barrel, Trigger, Optic and Optic mount.

    When your paying twice as much money for a "premium" lower all you paying for is the name and look of it. It has nothing to do with accuracy in my point of view. As long as it has a barrel that shoots really well (sub-moa @ 600yrds or less)and a crisp trigger I could care less what the name on the Lower reciever says. </div></div>

    I got a hold of a really terrible lower from a place on the west coast called TNW, serial number like 000042 or something, the finish was so bad it chipped off and the "hard coat" anodizing was like cheap spray paint. The finish was too thick as well and caused problems with assembly, the front takedown pin detent spring hole was .003" undersized due to the thick finish, and caused the spring and pin to get lodged in it after assembly. After some cussing and a week of trying different things to remove it, I finally got it out and drilled the hole to proper size, then assembled it.

    So while a lower is a lower, I think there's a bit more than meets the eye in terms of quality expectations, especially regarding coatings and finishes. This was a "machined" lower that evidently this company had tooled up to build, and they didn't understand the meaning of qc yet. Hopefully they figured it out, but I'm not planning on any more lowers from them.
     

    500grains

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    Spikes tactical has some blem ones on sale that just have cosmetic coating blemish if you are looking for a cheap one. </div></div>

    Actually I just picked up a nice looking Seekins lower this week. If I were looking for a budget one I would get a Spikes because the spider logo is nice. However, I would not use a Doublestar, Olympic, DPMS, Bushmaster simply because I feel they have an ambiance of low quality. And let's be honest with ourselves, every buying decision is an emotional decision, no matter how much analysis goes into it beforehand.

    Also, my reference to Doublestar in the OP was about complete rifles, not just about lowers. I suspected they were utilizing budget parts.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: titus7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so who is the mystery company that makes 'all' of the lowers for other companies? </div></div>

    According to DoubleStar its a conspiracy theory.... remember they only buy the "best mil-spec parts available" HAHA what a crock!
     

    50calibercruiser

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    I have one of their M4's, No problem here. I didn't buy anything through them so I can't speak of their dickheadness. But the rifle runs flawlessly.
     

    marduk185

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one of their M4's, No problem here. I didn't buy anything through them so I can't speak of their dickheadness. But the rifle runs flawlessly. </div></div>
    i too have zero experience with their customer service but at the time when i built a rifle on one of their lowers it was a good price point, worked flawlessly and they had what i considered to be the coolest logo out there. funny to read here that every lower i ever ran was forged by lar. one place, who knew. just goes to show what thievin bastids the sales shmoes are.
     

    Beaker

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    I have pieced together several AR's and over that time I have learened that with the exception of a few most are made in the same handful of places. Foundries are big and expensive. The fit and finish can very greatly. I have an Eagle Arms that runs great but had a Bushmaster that was almost out of spec. That being said look for companies that do right b the customer, for some reason they ususally get it right in the first place.
     

    Hatchie

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one of their M4's, No problem here. I didn't buy anything through them so I can't speak of their dickheadness. But the rifle runs flawlessly. </div></div>
    I got mine on a trade and liked it a lot better than I meant to. Very, very light and the only issue I've ever had was caused by a bad magazine. Trashed the mag and haven't had an issue since.
    Qualified with it and started carrying it as my work gun.
    Would I rather have something else? Yeah, but this one goes bang everytime I pull the trigger.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hatchie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one of their M4's, No problem here. I didn't buy anything through them so I can't speak of their dickheadness. But the rifle runs flawlessly. </div></div>
    I got mine on a trade and liked it a lot better than I meant to. Very, very light and the only issue I've ever had was caused by a bad magazine. Trashed the mag and haven't had an issue since.
    Qualified with it and started carrying it as my work gun.
    Would I rather have something else? Yeah, but this one goes bang everytime I pull the trigger. </div></div>

    Well so does a High Point Pistol..... until that day it blows up in your face!
    wink.gif
     

    SANDRAT

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    Thread link.

    Contained in the thread link is a list of manufactures and the brands they make. </div></div>

    From reading the link you posted,looks like LMT and MEGA supply to a lot of Quality MFR's.I own a Sundevil billet lower and upper,1st gen.Seems the quality and features were a little better then,price tag was higher too.Seekins based AR project is still in progress.That is one sweet lower.
     

    Strangedays

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    Thread link.

    Contained in the thread link is a list of manufactures and the brands they make. </div></div>
    So who makes Rainier's billet upper?
     

    marduk185

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    id get the doublestar logo as a tattoo if doublestar would pay for it, cuz hey, free advertising for them. or give me a free stripped lower and ill buy the tat...anybody?
     

    KYS

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">id get the doublestar logo as a tattoo if doublestar would pay for it, cuz hey, free advertising for them. or give me a free stripped lower and ill buy the tat...anybody? </div></div>

    I would vote no on that..... why would you want to link yourself to a group like that for the rest of your life?
     

    Dangerousdan

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    This information is great for a person purchasing his frist AR
    I prefer quality to cost. I'm not saying that I can afford to pay big bucks but equipment failure is something that non-nogatable. I have a chance to purchase a Kaiser Defence lower receiver and did not see that item on neither list. Any comment.
     

    Anchor Zero Six

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    Re: Doublestar - WTF?

    Perhaps 4 major but plenty of not so major manufactuers are out there. Not to be rude but I would have though your company fell into the later catagory.

    My pont being is that there are plenty of not so major makers turning out receivers.