Sidearms & Scatterguns Drive the gun to the threat
- Thread starter Andrew Blubaugh
- Start date
Good video, going to implement that next range day.
I was at a civilian carbine course put on for my unit a couple of years back. The instructors were constantly yelling at me for doing just that. I had muscle memory from doing hours of ready up drills with my M4 that I would go low ready, engage with a controlled pair, and instantly go back on safe and to the low ready again. It took me a while to beat that muscle memory and keep my rifle on fire until I knew a target was no longer a threat anymore. The 360 shoot house we used had dummies set up to not drop, so you had to engage until you had to do an emergency reload. A couple of times I hit it with a controlled pair and moved on without the target being eliminated.
It sucks breaking bad habits.
I've just recently started to really train with a pistol, and want to make sure I don't add bad habits. I think this will be a good drill to help with that.
Thanks for the reminder.
I was at a civilian carbine course put on for my unit a couple of years back. The instructors were constantly yelling at me for doing just that. I had muscle memory from doing hours of ready up drills with my M4 that I would go low ready, engage with a controlled pair, and instantly go back on safe and to the low ready again. It took me a while to beat that muscle memory and keep my rifle on fire until I knew a target was no longer a threat anymore. The 360 shoot house we used had dummies set up to not drop, so you had to engage until you had to do an emergency reload. A couple of times I hit it with a controlled pair and moved on without the target being eliminated.
It sucks breaking bad habits.
I've just recently started to really train with a pistol, and want to make sure I don't add bad habits. I think this will be a good drill to help with that.
Thanks for the reminder.
OP great video and I completely agree! I've got a quick clip to illustrate your point as well from the last stage of a 2-gun match after I'd run down range to engage a plate rack, three falling plates, and three poppers. What I didn't know was that the one popper had had issues going down earlier in the day when it didn't drop after taking a direct hit, kinda like in real life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8zKjHAykU&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8zKjHAykU&feature=youtu.be
The problem with steel in match setting is that successful shooting means getting into a rhythm - eyes on the FS the whole time, lollipop on white, bang, transition, about the time the lollipop slides onto white again your mind is registering the clang sound from the last hit, bang, transition, the whole thing is about never letting the gun come to a full stop. It is all mental - the gun stays at a constant speed in transition and your just going bang as soon as you're about to be centered on white.
It is a FAR cry from what the OP's video discusses. For that exercise you have to really crank the screw jack in the back of the popper to get that kind of resistance. I'll have to try it. A substitute is to shoot small steel - @ 4" - and just pound it with a full mag. Start playing with the distance at which you can watch the FS travel through its arc and settle, bang, travel through its arc and settle, bang. Now at the same distance see if you can start to pre-stage the trigger as you are watching the FS travel through the arc. Now start moving back. Your splits will fall and hits will be the full mag, now you're a lead hose. Now start to mix it up / make it up with several small pieces of steel - pounding several, mag changes, movement, sprints to cover, etc.
Also the OP's video trips my mind back in time to the following report which is great reminder why we're not supposed to be looking for our score with a hot weapon in our mitts.
*Do I have to warn people it is graphic?*
Well worth the review: http://catm.com/yabbfiles/Attachmen...it_Ballistic_Research_Facility_FBIAcademy.pdf
It is a FAR cry from what the OP's video discusses. For that exercise you have to really crank the screw jack in the back of the popper to get that kind of resistance. I'll have to try it. A substitute is to shoot small steel - @ 4" - and just pound it with a full mag. Start playing with the distance at which you can watch the FS travel through its arc and settle, bang, travel through its arc and settle, bang. Now at the same distance see if you can start to pre-stage the trigger as you are watching the FS travel through the arc. Now start moving back. Your splits will fall and hits will be the full mag, now you're a lead hose. Now start to mix it up / make it up with several small pieces of steel - pounding several, mag changes, movement, sprints to cover, etc.
Also the OP's video trips my mind back in time to the following report which is great reminder why we're not supposed to be looking for our score with a hot weapon in our mitts.
*Do I have to warn people it is graphic?*
Well worth the review: http://catm.com/yabbfiles/Attachmen...it_Ballistic_Research_Facility_FBIAcademy.pdf
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So did they determine why the rounds only penetrated 1" and were fully expanded if they aren't able to expand fully in 1" of flesh? Did the down jacket cause them to expand? Did they penetrate other barriers before striking the subject?
V - I do not recall if the manufacturers went back and did their own investigation. However we have seen no major design changes in these projectiles since that time period (good, bad, right, or wrong).
While the conclusions of the FBI report / the punch line from the video Cowboy Bravo posted may be a 'no duh' for many here; the report is worth the review as the weapons, projectiles, and likely even training standards are still highly regarded today. In essence and as always - shot placement trumps all, engage until there is no longer a threat, motivated people are tough to put down. Prepare accordingly.
While the conclusions of the FBI report / the punch line from the video Cowboy Bravo posted may be a 'no duh' for many here; the report is worth the review as the weapons, projectiles, and likely even training standards are still highly regarded today. In essence and as always - shot placement trumps all, engage until there is no longer a threat, motivated people are tough to put down. Prepare accordingly.
Most of the "civilian" world doesn't understand why police and others continue shooting at a threat. I finally figured out how to explain the rationale of continuing to shoot.
In a fist fight, you don't just quit punching because you landed a decent punch, you keep punching until the other fellow no longer wants to fight. It is the same in a gun fight. The primary difference is that in a gun fight, you continue shooting until the other person no longer wants to fight, or is no longer a threat. That may take only one round, and it may take many more.
I really like the way he sets his popper...it is a great training idea. There used to be some cardboard targets that would be supported by a balloon on a string, and the balloon would be placed in the head, center torso, or hip area. The idea was that you continued shooting until you popped the balloon and the target fell. I haven't seen those targets for 10 years though.. So the popper adjustment is really neat...
In a fist fight, you don't just quit punching because you landed a decent punch, you keep punching until the other fellow no longer wants to fight. It is the same in a gun fight. The primary difference is that in a gun fight, you continue shooting until the other person no longer wants to fight, or is no longer a threat. That may take only one round, and it may take many more.
I really like the way he sets his popper...it is a great training idea. There used to be some cardboard targets that would be supported by a balloon on a string, and the balloon would be placed in the head, center torso, or hip area. The idea was that you continued shooting until you popped the balloon and the target fell. I haven't seen those targets for 10 years though.. So the popper adjustment is really neat...
Nice job !
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