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Gunsmithing Duracoat vs Creakote

Y

yourshoesareuntied

Private
Minuteman
May 13, 2009
27
0
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I want to refinish my 1911 and don't know what would be better, I can have Duracoat local or ship it out for the Creakote. Anyone have any suggestions? or other brand names to look at. I would also look into having the slide on my XD refinished as well are these products DIY possible?

Thanks Y'all
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need a few grand in equipment to spray either Duracoat or Cerakote.

And Cerakote's better hands down

Needs to be done professionally. Send it out. </div></div>

a few grand?
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Blast cabinet is $300 minimum unless you find one on sale.

Air compressor must be 60gal 5hp minimum to run the blast cabinet. A cheap knock off will be 900$, mine is $1,600 in Rutland.

Then you need a resiprator, spray gun, paint, blasting media, air hoses and connections, filters, cleaning solutions, etc.


We spent about $2,500


Oh and maintenance... Filters need to be replaced every 6 months at least. I have $300 in filters on my line. Blasting media(120grit AO) is $50 per 15lbs and the cabinet uses up that 15lbs in about 3 months.


And Cerakote is $10 an ounce unless you buy in bulk
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blast cabinet is $300 minimum unless you find one on sale.

Air compressor must be 60gal 5hp minimum to run the blast cabinet. A cheap knock off will be 900$, mine is $1,600 in Rutland.

Then you need a resiprator, spray gun, paint, blasting media, air hoses and connections, filters, cleaning solutions, etc.


We spent about $2,500


Oh and maintenance... Filters need to be replaced every 6 months at least. I have $300 in filters on my line. Blasting media(120grit AO) is $50 per 15lbs and the cabinet uses up that 15lbs in about 3 months.


And Cerakote is $10 an ounce unless you buy in bulk </div></div>

my 60 gallon compressor was under $600 if i remember correctly. i bought it new probably 6-7 years ago and it has been going strong ever since. it is plenty to run a blast cabinet. you could get by with less of a compressor during short runs such as a 1911, like the op mentioned. yes, you may have to wait for a minute for the compressor to catch up once in a while. a harbor freight blast cabinet can be had for $130 ever day. i bet they can be had for under $100 on sale. you can spray duracoat with a $20 hobby airbrush off of a small hobby air pump.

you don't need to spend a few grand to duracoat a 1911. if you want to do it in a production environment, then sure you could spend that much.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Sorry man but I bought a Harbor Freight Cabinet for $220 on sale. $300 reg price. Maybe you were looking at their small one.
And prices aren't what they were 7 years ago. Plus, waiting for the compressor to re-up isn't an option for me.

I'm talkin Cerakote too, not Duracoat.

I do full barreled actions. That means I'm blasting continuously for an hour sometimes. 1911s are different
smile.gif


to each their own
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

i think the only tool i ever bought from harbor freight was a blast cabinet. i needed one for one project so i pretty much bought it figuring it was a "throw away tool". it works fine and now i use it regally. the one i bought is only $130 right now. the barrel needs to stick out of the vacuum port to do a barreled action but that is fine with me. i can't see spending more than 15-20 minutes of actual blast time doing a barreled action.

you are talking about doing this in a production environment and it sure didn't sound to me like the op was. bottom line is the hobby gun refinisher does not need to spend thousands in equipment. if they shopped around, bought used equipment or already have some of the equipment they could do it for far less. i really don't like to discourage shade tree guys from trying something new.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

I bought what I thought I needed to do it professionally. My work is up to par I'd say. And I wanted a cabinet big enough to fit the entire barreled action.


To each, their own



Next summer we will be Certified by NIC for Cerakote. $2k aint shit compared to what we'll spend then
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

We dropped $5 grand on equipment straight outta the box. Not counting the certification. Done the first job with an $18 airbrush, it can be done but it will not be a professional finish. There is a diffrence.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gun Wurks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We dropped $5 grand on equipment straight outta the box. Not counting the certification. Done the first job with an $18 airbrush, it can be done but it will not be a professional finish. There is a diffrence. </div></div>

are you are telling me you that you can't get a professional quality finish without spending $3-5k? if that is what you are saying, i have got to call bullshit.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

It's alot like building a precision rifle you can send it to GAP who has the proper tools and knowledge or you can drop it off at your buddys house who has a hack saw and a drill press. Is there a diffrence, bet ur ass!
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gun Wurks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's alot like building a precision rifle you can send it to GAP who has the proper tools and knowledge or you can drop it off at your buddys house who has a hack saw and a drill press. Is there a diffrence, bet ur ass! </div></div>

so now a guy can't build a rifle with quality as good or better than gap in his garage?
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Ok count me outa this one. I'm just saying what NIC recommends for Cerakoting.

300sniper, if I remember correctly you do some GREAT work. Please don't take anything I said offensively
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gun Wurks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Haha! I give dude, you can do anything you want. It's the Internet Dude! </div></div>

internet or real life, i will not make something out to be harder or more expensive than it is in order to make myself look more skilled. i'd rather be realistic about it and encourage more people to do things themselves. after all, this is the "gunsmithing" forum of this site, not the "send it out to have it done" forum.

edit: then again, i'm not charging money for my finishing/smithing services here.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Hey now, I wasn't making it out to be anything but what it is. And neither was he. He's certified. I believe that he has $5k in equipment. And we DO have about $2500 in equip.


Can you get by with less? Yes.


The thread was started to ask if it's DIY possible. So to answer that, yes. How good of a job you want done is up to the owner.



Oh and I forgot to above mention a paint booth. coating has to be done indoors, in a WELL vented place. Or you must atleast put tarps up to block off the area. Dust and wind will screw you quick.
Well, okay I dont do it indoors but I made an outdoor paint booth thats about 12' x 20' using HUGE tarps and the steel roof of my carport. On windy days I wont spray.
Oh and I use Air cure. So for 6 hours I cant touch it or allow dust to hit it.
We will within a year be certified by NIC, and have a dedicated paint room for Cerakote. We then will have at least $5k into it, like I'm sure Gunwurks does
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The American</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to refinish my 1911 and don't know what would be better, I can have Duracoat local or ship it out for the Creakote. Anyone have any suggestions? or other brand names to look at. I would also look into having the slide on my XD refinished as well are these products DIY possible?

Thanks Y'all
</div></div>

SO... to get this thread back on track for you American. I personally would say based on my experience with many custom rifles I would not recommend Cerakote. My reason is purely based on look and feel of the finish. I feels ruff to the touch, keep in mind by ruff I mean almost like it has over spray on it. I am not saying it is not a durable finish, that is just my personal feel about cerakote.

I would recommend you look into someone that can professionally apply a teflon type coating for you. I don't know shit about how to apply the finishes I am just sharing my opinion on how the finished product looks. Just my opinion and I hope this helps you out.

Good luck with your search,
Oneshot
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot976</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
SO... to get this thread back on track for you American. I personally would say based on my experience with many custom rifles I would not recommend Cerakote. My reason is purely based on look and feel of the finish. I feels ruff to the touch, keep in mind by ruff I mean almost like it has over spray on it. I am not saying it is not a durable finish, that is just my personal feel about cerakote.

I would recommend you look into someone that can professionally apply a teflon type coating for you. I don't know shit about how to apply the finishes I am just sharing my opinion on how the finished product looks. Just my opinion and I hope this helps you out.

Good luck with your search,
Oneshot </div></div>

That is because you are not applying it correctly.

Cerakote is very tricky to apply. It looks and acts almost like powder coating. It takes very little product to produce a good finish. Most mistakes are applying too much and not adjusting the air paint mixture correctly. Cerakote is also very susceptible to contaminants in the airline. If it comes out with a rough bumpy feel this is due to operator error.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Randy knows his shit


Above I mentioned $300 in filters on my line. Air compressors form enough condensation to fill a canteen. 50' of hose and the correct air filter station is pretty much a must to eliminate moisture.
Take a look in Rutland at the price of filters. You can spend $400 without blinking an eye



Oh, and Cerakote isn't Cerakote isn't Cerakote. Different colors cover different, feel different, and some are harder than others to make look good.

Applying it too thick is EASY to do and you WILL apply it too thick the first couple times you practice it.


Oh and I think the gentleman's question WAS answered. Judge for yourself after reading this thread.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

+1 what Randy said. I've seen and felt a rifle ceracoated by him and it is smoother than Duracoated guns I've had.

I have only applied Duracoat, and Norrell's Moly Resin myself, but I can confidently say yes, you can apply these products at home by yourself. I've coated AR receivers, accessories and Sig pistols on my own and if proper prep is done the outcome can be very good. I wouldn't call it professional because, well, I'm not getting paid to do the work for myself.
laugh.gif
I've done it both with blasting prior and without blasting (on anodized parts only) and both turned out well though the non-blasted one will wear on edges more quickly. I use a household compressor at 25psi and an Iwata single action airbrush.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Get a quote for how much it will be to get it refinished, including shipping, etc..... and transfer fee's if it's out of state...
Then price materials to do it yourself,
find someone who has the equipment if you don't.
See how many times you can do it yourself for the amount it cost to send it out, and decide if you want to "learn as you go"
JMHO...
smile.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

That's just it, the cost to have it professionally done is WAY cheaper than doing it yourself.

This isn't one of those things you save money on doing it in your garage.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Well, then decide if you want to be able to say "you did it yourself" or not.....
I like working on them almost as much as I like shooting them,
but as AZ said
to each there own....
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I like working on them almost as much as I like shooting them,
</div></div>

Me too. I haven't gone shooting in a while, but I've worked on someone elses bolt every day. Well, almost one a day.

Passed up a few trips to work and read
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot976</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
SO... to get this thread back on track for you American. I personally would say based on my experience with many custom rifles I would not recommend Cerakote. My reason is purely based on look and feel of the finish. I feels ruff to the touch, keep in mind by ruff I mean almost like it has over spray on it. I am not saying it is not a durable finish, that is just my personal feel about cerakote.

I would recommend you look into someone that can professionally apply a Teflon type coating for you. I don't know shit about how to apply the finishes I am just sharing my opinion on how the finished product looks. Just my opinion and I hope this helps you out.

Good luck with your search,
Oneshot </div></div>

That is because you are not applying it correctly.

Cerakote is very tricky to apply. It looks and acts almost like powder coating. It takes very little product to produce a good finish. Most mistakes are applying too much and not adjusting the air paint mixture correctly. Cerakote is also very susceptible to contaminants in the airline. If it comes out with a rough bumpy feel this is due to operator error.
</div></div>

That indeed may be the case Randy, I couldn't argue that point one way or the other because as I mentioned in my post I don't and have not applied any coatings myself. My opinion on Cerakote is based strictly on owning several different custom rifles from many different builders and I my opinion there are better looking coatings out there than Cerakote. All I am saying in response to his question is that I would suggest that he take the professional route in getting the finish applied and research the finishes his is looking at to ensure that he indeed gets the end result he is looking for. Again my comment is only based on my opinion of many different custom rifles that I have owned or still own with several different types of finishes. One of those rifles is one that you built for me, on which we did not use Cerakote.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh and I think the gentleman's question WAS answered. Judge for yourself after reading this thread. </div></div>

AZ, I don't think I said anything about his question not being answered. I was just sharing my personal experience that I have had with different types of finishes and trying to encourage him to look at some of the alternative finish options out there. The back on track comment was to try and get back to his question about finishes and not whos blast cabinet or air compressor cost more. Not to question weather or not you answered his question or not, nor was it to say your answers were wrong, I am sorry if it appeared that is was.

Thanks,
Oneshot
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Gotcha

The only point about the equipment was that, again, it's not really a DIY thing.

We pretty much made it clear its slightly more than a weekend DIY project(which was his question) I'm not trying to sound like I'm good at it. It's hard. That's all I'm saying.

And as far as which is better, Cerakote or Duracoat, there's a hundred threads asking that so I figured I'd focus on his other question.

I try to be careful as to not offend anyone so I hope my comment about his question being answered didn't do just that. And the comment after that about reading the thread, was not to you but anyone reading.

I PMed "American" to see if I could help in any way possible but I guess he's away from computer.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

FYI for do it yourselfers...
As Randy and AZ eluded to, the cerakote can be hard to apply,
I haven't gotten it "just right" yet....
I have noticed that when I have a coated rifle (after baking)
that has rough texture;
I rub it down with fine steel wool.
It knocks it smooth without harming the finish....
I know to some degree that this is a bandaid, but it works for me.
And I am "learning as I go" with the cerakote application..
as with anything YMMV
Oh yeah, spring for a decent air brush.... it makes alot of difference... I have a Badger model 150, and have been happy thus far...
Andy
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Thank you to everyone who took the time to add to my question/post. Nothing was said that would/could hurt my feelers, and my question's are being answered.. plus it’s the World Wide Web its hard to read peoples body language and facial expressions when your reading something hammered out in a message board.

I am leaning toward cerakote and may have a smithy take care of it, I have not striped a 1911 down to the frame before and there are some things hardware wise I think I want replaced such as screws and some grip post that have been violated with improper tools, “me” anyway thanks again!!
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The American</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you to everyone who took the time to add to my question/post. Nothing was said that would/could hurt my feelers, and my question's are being answered.. plus it’s the World Wide Web its hard to read peoples body language and facial expressions when your reading something hammered out in a message board.

I am leaning toward cerakote and may have a smithy take care of it, I have not striped a 1911 down to the frame before and there are some things hardware wise I think I want replaced <span style="color: #FF6600">such as screws and some grip post that have been violated with improper tools, “me”</span> anyway thanks again!!
</div></div>

ok, maybe <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> should sent it to someone who has the $3k worth of equipment
grin.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The American</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you to everyone who took the time to add to my question/post. Nothing was said that would/could hurt my feelers, and my question's are being answered.. plus it’s the World Wide Web its hard to read peoples body language and facial expressions when your reading something hammered out in a message board.

I am leaning toward cerakote and may have a smithy take care of it, I have not striped a 1911 down to the frame before and there are some things hardware wise I think I want replaced <span style="color: #FF6600">such as screws and some grip post that have been violated with improper tools, “me”</span> anyway thanks again!!
</div></div>

ok, maybe <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> should sent it to someone who has the $3k worth of equipment
grin.gif
</div></div>

I tend to learn "the hard way" as well....
wink.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

I’m getting better at stopping and seeking professional help before I reach a destructive point, however that was my first handgun… about ten years ago. I don’t mind learning how to tear it down.. but not with this one, it’s a nice one.. Colt 1911 MK IV series 80 Stainless steal factory enhanced. The slide is smooth doesn’t rattle much crisp adjustable trigger with near zero creep, Skelton hammer,
smile.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

don't worry, i too have a pile of broken tools, parts and even guns that i tried to learn on. that pile is continuously getting bigger.
grin.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't worry, i too have a pile of broken tools, parts and even guns that i tried to learn on. that pile is continuously getting bigger.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Yeah, but now I only make the mistake twice instead of 3 or 4 times.....
crazy.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't worry, i too have a pile of broken tools, parts and even guns that i tried to learn on. that pile is continuously getting bigger.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Yeah, but now I only make the mistake twice instead of 3 or 4 times.....
crazy.gif
</div></div>
LOL, truer words have not been spoken, er written, typed
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

ok, not duracoat or cerekote but to show you can get professional like finishes at home without spending huge amounts of money, here is some moly resin i just finished. i blasted it in my $130 harbor freight blast cabinet. i did use my 60 gallon compressor (not even a two stage) to run the cabinet. i have run a similar blast cabinet at a friends house before off of a small (maybe 25 gallon) oil-less compressor. that is far from ideal but it can be done if that's all you have to work with. now for the good part. i hung the parts off of my lawn mower handle in my back yard. i used a $16 hobby airbrush running off of a testors air pump to apply the finish. then i baked them in my kitchen oven.

5r-5.jpg


badgerthruster4.jpg


5r-1.jpg


5r-3.jpg
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that Norrells moly resin?

Thanks </div></div>

yes.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

A few grand?

I made my blasting cabinet out of some scrap material and an old aquarium. I have a compresser I bought at Wal-Mart, the filters and dryers I got at Tractor Supply for about $50.00. I have less than $450.00 in all of it, and it works just fine.

I did have a problem with the Duracoat peeling when my 1911 got hot, and B&C Gunscrubber took it right off of the gun the first time I applied it, but after consulting with some folks with more experience than I had, I doubled the amount of hardener, no problems now.

I've never worked with ceracoat, I have seen some beautiful samples of it though. Duracoat is a much more forgiving finish. Oh, and rather than take a chance on screwing up my gun, I got some scrap metal from my shop to learn on.

 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

again, i know it costs more money to get setup for production finishing. in that environement, you can't afford to wait for a compressor to catch up to the blast cabinet. there is no reason that a guy wanting to do a few pistols needs to spend thousands of dollars for the satisfaction of doing his own finishing. also, a compressor is probably the largest single expense but it isn't going to be dedicated for a blast cabinet in the garage shop. what guy wouldn't find other uses for a compressor if he had one (actually, what guy doesn't have one already?)?
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Nice work 300....

I think it boils down to what you "want" to do....

You want to tinker, you can do it without the huge outlay...
looking to save a buck? I don't always think doing it yourself saves you much cash,
but you don't have to wait, or ship.
But then you don't have anyone else to blame either...
wink.gif


There is alot to be said for "I made this!"
At least in my mind anyway.....

here's my latest build...
is it a GAP? of course not...
but good enough for me, and I did everything but lay the glass on the stock, or build the scope.....

Picture553.jpg
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Thanks ....

On a side note,
if I had somebody local like AZprecision or Randy....
I'd probably do the machine work and bedding etc,
and just drop it off to be coated..... there is a bit of "pain in the ass" factor to think of as well.....
grin.gif
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

very nice chpprguy.

unless you have the tools and don't value your time in a dollar amount, you usually don't save money by doing your own work. personally, i'd rather spend the money on tools and do it myself even knowing it will probably cost more than farming it out.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

now that i think about it, i guess my tools for refinishing have probably paid for them self.

moly resin finished 10/22 that i sprayed with a hvlp gun and baked in a wallmart toaster oven:

10-2203.jpg


10-22mod62.jpg


toyota 22re intake, plenum and valve cover finished in moly resin. sprayed with a hobby airbrush and baked in my kitchen oven.

22re2.jpg


rifle finished in moly resin sprayed with hvlp gun and baked in my kitchen oven:

284finished2.jpg


a part that i made that i would have preferred to have hard anodized but was cost prohibitive for a single unit. i sprayed moly resin on thicker than i normally would with a hvlp gun. it was baked in the wallmart toaster oven.

robsmuzzleclamp7.jpg


robsmuzzleclamp8.jpg


that's just the things i have pictures of. once you are set up to do it, even in a hobby environment, there are all kinds of things that can/will be refinished.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Does one retain heat more than the other.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

Im going to try it my self, I found a web site that helped me get my 1911 striped down to the frame. That was way easer then I thought... Plus Im good at working with my hands, as I do it for a living, making prosthetics and orthotics for our Country’s heroes.

How do I keep the Duracoat in a mat finish, I dont want it glossy.
 
Re: Duracoat vs Creakote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The American</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im going to try it my self, I found a web site that helped me get my 1911 striped down to the frame. That was way easer then I thought... Plus Im good at working with my hands, as I do it for a living, making prosthetics and orthotics for our Country’s heroes.

How do I keep the Duracoat in a mat finish, I dont want it glossy. </div></div>

If you want it flat buy the tactical colors with no glare! Matte will be ok unless you use too much hardner. Stick to the directions and everything will work fine. Good luck!
 
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