hey guy's im new on snipershide.
do any of you have experience with this type of barrel rifling? might be a solid solution for hard alloys.
greetings from Austria
Gunsmithing ECR PTS 2500 rifling machine
- Thread starter coldboreAU
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hey guy's im new on snipershide.
do any of you have experience with this type of barrel rifling? might be a solid solution for hard alloys.
greetings from Austria
Hardness as a property does not matter so much to ECM, so it certainly becomes more attractive in hard-alloy applications. ECM has been around for decades, and is a niche process that is challenging for many traditional manufacturers to get into. There are on-going efforts to make it more mainstream, but has a way to go yet.
ECM does not produce a recast layer like EDM, and can produce mirror-like finishes ... depends on several variables of course, like most processes. I can’t confirm if S&W has adopted ECM for any component manufacture, but the U.S. has existing industrial base capabilities currently producing rifling in various military applications.
And welcome to the Hide! @coldboreAU
Thank's
Yes, it is not very common at the moment, but ECM/ECR could have some advantages if this method is able to rifling very hard barrel alloys. A more resistant and hard alloy could improve barrel life. this is something that barrel manufacturers have to deal with.
but it's interesting to see new rifling machines. the industry does not sleep. also interesting is what accuracy can you expect from ECR? any kind of guesses?
Thank's.
As canislupus said ECM and EDM are different. I hope that ECM can make a nice smooth surface finish but to be honest i have know experience with ECM. This ECR process only keep me guessing.
Sure, ECM has advantages. Once a tool (cathode) is developed to produce a part, then it's great for production. With the ECM process, there is very-little-to-no tool-wear since it's a non-contact process with virtually no heat-affected-zone (unlike 'conventional' cutting processes). Generally, ECM can hold tolerances to approx. +/- 0.02 mm and with surface finishes at the (sub-) micron-level (Ra). Though, tolerances on part-specific features may vary due to the nature of the process.
However, tool design for ECM is often a very iterative process and where a lot of non-recurring engineering expenses reside. There are other challenges of varying degrees that have held this process back for many small-business manufacturers in general. Perhaps some of it is just cultural ... in the case of barrel manufacturers, many of them are great with single-point cut-rifling and maybe they're not willing or able to take on the risk of change for the costs/challenges involved. Also, there is a lack of technicians/machinists with ECM experience, at least compared to conventional machining processes ... despite ECM having been around for about 100 years.
Anyway ... cool subject. It's been a while since I've thought about it. Maybe others with more experience will chime in. It'd be neat to find out if other barrel manufacturers are using, or considering ECM. Thanks for sharing.
ECM has been around for ages, and its been used on rifle barrel for equally as long.
Theres lots of "home made" versions. You 3d print your inner core, push it in, use salt water and a basic sort of pump, like a fish tank type. Apply voltage. Bam, you have barrel erroded rifling.
Many of the 3d printed guns are doing it, real "true" diy gun making.
EDM can produce mirror like finishes, so i cant see why this wouldnt also be able to produce some impressive results.
Theres lots of "home made" versions. You 3d print your inner core, push it in, use salt water and a basic sort of pump, like a fish tank type. Apply voltage. Bam, you have barrel erroded rifling.
Many of the 3d printed guns are doing it, real "true" diy gun making.
EDM can produce mirror like finishes, so i cant see why this wouldnt also be able to produce some impressive results.
Didn't our favorite, no longer in residence, thieving scumbag, Theis (whose name ain't Theis) post this vid as part of his scam to make us think he was really a firearm manf exec on the cutting edge?
The process is very interesting. It would be interesting to see barrel life on a low round count caliber.
I agree with you. 0.02mm +/- sounds a bit too much. I believe that ECR (electrochemical rifling) is a way of working stress-free on alloys that are too hard for the single point cut process.
If a well known member don't think so, prove me i'm wrong.
I think the same as you do.
I think a "homemade version" will never be comparable to industrial machines.
Off Topic
Who is Theis?
hahaha...I see you are new here...yeah, off topic is a SH specialty.
And Theis...well, that's a very long story. Very short version is that he is a con artist, his name isn't Theis, he presented himself as so me sort of eastern European Spec Ops type, and ran a very long scam here posting about Hoplite development of a really revolutionary precision bolt rifle all the while embezzling the money and screwing the owners who are members here. The owners can't say much more as they are going after this scum bag and as any lawyer will tell you "shut the fuck up", right? No customer deposits were lost as the owner is a magnificent example of a stand up Joe and I expect that they will get this train running again after all the suits and court cases are settled and IP is, hopefully, back in the owner's hands. Or at least that's my flawed understanding. And, the vid you posted was one he posted as a tickler of possible further innovation by Hoplite.
Cheers and I'll quit trashing up your thread
+/- 0.02mm is huge. My experience is that groove tolerance is often within the measurement error of the air gauge with this process
@Frank Green the one with the most expertise on barrels. I have read many of your posts but you never commented on electrochemical rifling, why? Is it too new and there is no long term data available or just worthless BS? I am not talking about cheap homemade ECM rifling.
Ill take a stab at this one. "Too inconsistant". The current TOP tier machines still can not produce a barrel anywhere near the quality of what ee currently have, and the current electro machines are not just expensive, but retarded expensive.
HOWEVER.. 3d printers at one point were stupid, and now people make space parts with them. I even remember when manual mill and lathes were far superior to CNC machines.. aaand today i own multiple cncs. Go figure.
In year to come, yes. They will make equally or superior quality in less time.
HOWEVER.. 3d printers at one point were stupid, and now people make space parts with them. I even remember when manual mill and lathes were far superior to CNC machines.. aaand today i own multiple cncs. Go figure.
In year to come, yes. They will make equally or superior quality in less time.
Thank you for the information. I was wondering why Bartlein and Frank Green don't comment on this technology. Because actually Frank Green always stays up to date, on the latest technology. Now I know why.
Probably because he is exceptionally busy. I just wandered into this thread because I am interested in rifling cannon barrels.
So you are interested in the production of giant cannon barrels. These machines from UNISIG can rifling pretty much any caliber. The type of rifling is also specified. Rifling machines for barrels up to 205mm are offered there. I hope that's what you were looking for.
I have a Batten ECM'd .50 cal barrel blank. I believe Batten made ECM barrels for the early Barrett M82's but couldn't keep up with demands.
So I guess they take too long to make?
So I guess they take too long to make?
Too long to make? I don't think that time is an issue, but keeping the deminsions and tolerances is an issue. A barrel where the tolerances are not exact to the point is worthless. I might be wrong but this is my opinion
That's what have been consistently hearing.... it's inconsistencies in the rifling with the electrochemical to the point there are no lands etc...
Probably time down the road it will work/get perfected or it has different applications for different types of barrels.
We've done work for a place where the smallest caliber they make or try to make are 50cal barrels. They said them trying to make 50cal barrels is considered small caliber and they just cannot do it with any consistency. So they call us then. Now them making 20mm, 25, 30 and up to 105mm they can do and if I recall correctly they do a form of cut rifling but they just cannot do small caliber stuff.
I wonder what they would charge for 105 or 75mm barrel? Asking for a friend
I'd be curious myself!I wonder what they would charge for 105 or 75mm barrel? Asking for a friend
