Rifle Scopes Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

[superfrog]

Hallo,

I shoot mainly a French discipline called TAR (Tir Armes Reglementaires = Service Issued Weapon Shooting), meaning that my AR15 14.5 has to remain in its original issued condition. Therefore I use the carry-handle iron sights all the time.

However I am looking for an optic to mount for "fun shooting" on targets between 200/300 meters (218/328 yards).

I am looking at the various ACOG in 4x32 and the Elcan C79 as potential choices. Can you guys talk me through the pros/cons of those 2 good optics and help me to make up my mind ?


Alternativly I was also looking at the "old school but nice colt 4x20" that mounts on the handle - I appreciate those are probably an entire different league - Are those difficult to find ? I can only see Barksa ones for sale .


Many thanks,

 

[maladat]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Hello,
I do not have any experience with the Elcan or Colt 4x20.

I do, however, have and use a TA01 4x32 ACOG. My experience has been that the ACOG is absolutely bombproof in terms of durability and has very good glass. Do note however that the 4x32 ACOG has pretty short eye relief (1.5" or 3.8cm) which is not something everyone is happy using. The TA11 3.5x35 ACOG has 2.4" or 6cm of eye relief and is also a popular choice.

Also be careful about ACOG selection because there are different BDCs for different loads and rifle setups. There is some good information here: http://coloradoshooting.org/acog_bdc_chart.htm but as the author says don't take it as being absolutely correct as it's not put together by Trijicon but by an interested user.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Have used all three scopes

ACOG, I keep coming back to this for fixed AR scope. Just plain works everytime. Wish they did not cost so much but great little scope

Colt, not my first second or tenth choice

Elcan is great except, hate external adjustments and heavy.

 

[Graham]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

I have used all three.

The Colt is absolute junk: no redeeming features whatsoever.

I have seen a few, meaning more than two Elcans, fail, but to be fair that was the late 80's or early 90's and they were first generation models.

Trijicons are overpriced, but the glass is excellent and the ones I have tried recently track more accurately than the old ones ever did.

I currently have the TA11 3.5 ACOG with the crosshair reticle, and it's a robust little gunsight.

 

[ropewalker1]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

I have an Elcan 5.56 on an M-4 and an Elcan 7.62 on an FAL.
Never had a problem or a missed shot, with either. Or maybe
I'm just that good.

 

[pazzo]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

I like my ELCAN SpecterDR for anything out to 300 yds (with my 5.56 XCR). It has two power settings - 1x/4x, and you can switch between the two in half a second at most.

 

[pale horse]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

I too shoot a elcan c-7 great setup easy to use and my 8 year old shot rings around me with it meaning its easy to use I cant help it I have acogs kimbers and the elcan is the one I use most I know folks are dif when it comes to reflex sites also use a aimpoint but its the last I pick hope this helps

 

[superfrog]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Re-

Many thanks for your comments !

The Elcan seem indeed to be making some bomb proof stuff but seem a tad heavy (I was offered a second-hand C79).

The colt 4x20 is actually the only accepted scope for the TAR competition here in France - hence the reason I was lookg at it on top of the obvious low cost.

Acog , I am lookg at the 3x30 and the 4x32 Mdls - Can I hear your preferences pls ? you guys seem to be happy with those TA11. What do you make of the TA33 ? any good as well ?

Cheriooo,

 

[samnev]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

I use a TA01 on the carry handle of my M16A1, A TA31RCOM4 on my Colt 6920 and a TA31F on my SCAR 16s and a TA01NSN on my SIG 556 if you can get use to the short eye relief they are great. I've shot my buddies AR with the TA33R and like the longer eye relief. If you can look at both types of eye relief before you decide. I have a 4x Colt on my first Colt AR, keep it for nostalgia. It was ok in its day but don't like the thick reticle at all and would not recommend it unless you have no other choice. I have seen them for sale on Gunbroker and on AR15.com's new EE board from time to time. I'd post a WTB on this board or others that you use. I'd bet you find one. I also shot anothe friends ELCAN and it seemed to change POI slightly when you changed from 1X to 4X and didn't like the weight or the price compared to the ACOG's. That being said if I had it to do over again I'd use a Nightforce NXS 1-4X on at least 1 of my AR's.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

The ACOGS is one of my favorite Optics for an AR15 platform. Daytime illumination (that does not require any batteries), great holdover RET., and built well.

The ELCAN is my favorite optic for an AR15 platform. The ELCAN has daytime illumination but use batteries. The illumination has NV settings where the ACOGS do not. The ELCAN also has a great holdover RET., and what I really love about the ELCAN Specter DR is the 1x to 4x flip switch. The flips switch really helps for the close up and personal stuff. I have heard people complain about the ARMS mounts. We have not seen this to be an issue for several years now. I have heard people complain about the impact shift when going form 4x to 1x. I have not experienced this my self and I have used a few ELCAN Specter DRs. Even if you happen to get one that does shift I’m told it has ranged form 1.5” to 3”. At 4x the dot is 1.5mao and at 1x it is 6mao so even in the worst case situation it will be half the size of the dot.

We have the ACOGS and ELCAN in stock.


Mike @ CST

 

[BCP]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

ACOG, check out the 3-3.5X versions with the chevron (red triangle with lines below it) reticle. Steer clear of the yellow/amber etc stuff it's hard to see sometimes. Red is the way to go for illumination.

edit: you can own an AR in France?

 

[superfrog]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Wahoooo, Many thanks for those infos !!
A gold mine for me !!

I must say it is really hard to make up my mind between Acog and Elcan. For financial reasons I am in the market for a 2nd hand stuff and I was offered a C79. I must say, as an ex-para I am naturally geared toward simple stuff that a T72 could roll over and the Elcan seems to fit the bill. The Specter DR is just way out of my purse.
On the other hand Uncle Sam knows a thing or two about good equipment and also reading your comments the ACOG seems very attractive. I thk I have found a TA31F that will fit the bill .

Once again many thanks for your comments & help !!
Greatly appreciated guys !!

SF


NB - yes BCP , as long as you are a full licenced sport shooter you can own up to 7 central percusion and 5 rimfire weapons in France (hand-guns, manual or SA rifles but no full auto).

So not only you can own an AR but they are also extremely popular in this 200 meters (220 yards) TAR competition I mentioned before. Personnaly I shoot a SDI M4 in 223 and I am a big fan ...

 

[samnev]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Of the 4 ACOG's I own the TA31F is my favorite. You won't go wrong with one. They sell here in the US in LNIB for $800-$900.

 

[superfrog]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Thanks Santo,
I was told they are designed for a 16' more than a 14.5 barel ?
is that correct ?

 

[Graham]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: superfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was told they are designed for a 16' more than a 14.5 barel</div></div>Check the Trijicon website. It has a FAQ section which gives the barrel/mounting/ammo combinations for the BDC's.

 

[samnev]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

u<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: superfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Santo,
I was told they are designed for a 16' more than a 14.5 barel ?
is that correct ? </div></div>

Superfrog,
The answer from Trijicon is:

1: The width of the TA31F chevron represents 19 inches at 300m. Not 19.5 inches. Also, one may need to reduce a possible “ballooning” effect of the chevron if it is under bright light. This may make the chevron appear larger than it is. The tried and true solution for this is placing some riggers tape over the fiber optic tube to adjust brightness.

2: The BDC of the TA31F is not based on the trajectory of a 14.4 inch or a 20 inch barrel- it is based on 62 grain bullet exiting a muzzle at 3050 ft/sec (about a 16 inch barrel).

3: The TA31RCO-M4 (USMC RCO, carbine version) and the RCO-M150 (US Army RCO) both have their BDCs based on the trajectory of a 62 gr bullet from a 14.5 inch barrel.

I hope this answeres your question. In actual use i have found little difference between the RCOM4 and the TA 31F as far as the bulletdrop reticle is concerned. Since I handlaod all my 5.56X45 with bullets weights from 52 grain SMK's to 69 grain SMK's the BDC is only an approximation since I am not using the 855 cartridge. (not accurate enough for my shooting). I bought the RCOM4 after I bought the TA31F and have little use for the 5 mill horizontal stadia in my shooting. So the 31F being several hundred $$$ less expensive and still has the dual illumination is the on for me. The TAO1 are fine as is the TAO1NSN for use on 16" and 14.5 inch barrels. The TA31RCOA4's reticle is for the 20" rifle.
Good luck in your shooting.

 

[Impact]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

another vote for Acog: I have 3 TA01NSN and I keep coming back to them. They are bombproof, very nice glass and I have no issue with the eye relief since I shoot nose to handle.

I bought all of them used. They usually ran for $650-$700 used.
The holdover reticle is nice too.

 

[superfrog]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Re-

Guys , a big big thanks for having taken the time to answer my questions and thus helping me to make up my mind.
It is very much appreciated as I had to make a "blind" purchase as nobody among my shooting buddies have that stuff for me to try it out.
I eventually got a second-hand TA31F . I have not taken it down the range yet but I can see now why you speak highly of them !

Cherioooooooo,
SF

 

[longebow]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Congrats on the TA31F! You made a great decision, and I'm sure it was more affordable than NIB. Trijicon can replace the tritium element if it does not glow at night--this usually happens after about 7-10 years from date of manufacture.

 

[samnev]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

Congradulations on your TA31F. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. The good thing about Triijicon is they will repair the scope for you should it ever need to be worked on. (A very remote possibility)

 

[superfrog]

Re: Elcan vs Acog vs Colt 4x20

re- BCP

I eventually come around taking a pic of my AR.
Here it is :

Once again many thanks for all your info and advices for optics !!