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Hunting & Fishing Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

C

ColBatGuano

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May 1, 2010
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I got lucky and found myself on a horsepack elk hunt in Montana. It was a last minute opportunity and my .30-06 was in the shop getting a new stock, so my buddy met me there and loaned me his .300WM with a ballistic reticle. We had just enough ammo and time to confirm zero at base camp, which was enough for me to know I could trust myself to 400 yards.

On the fourth day I found myself on a ridge at 7,000 feet looking across a draw at a nice bull on the opposite ridge. Lasered him at 601 yards. He stood broadside for almost 10 minutes while I watched him -- proned out with the rifle on my ruck -- through the scope. WInd was whipping up the gully and gusting 12-15. I couldn't take the shot. My wind reading ability was marginal then and limited mostly to .308. Plus I had no experience with that rifle.

Since then I can't stop thinking about what a doable shot that would have been with the right skill set matched to the right equipment. I've been working hard on the skill part and am now sorting out the details on the rifle. A mountain rifle that -- with proper shot placement -- can take down a bull (with authority) broadside or slightly quartering away out to 700 yards -- with a caliber/round that does well in that kind of wind. Just enough gun for that. Optimally the gun would be no more than 9.5lbs with a quality Mil-dot optic and one of the lightweight Manners stocks. 24" barrel max, with a small enough contour to reduce the weight for humping in the mountains, but enough mass for reasonable shooting intervals on the practice range (not a pencil).

With less wind I think the .300WM/WSM would be fine, and maybe it would be in that wind as well once I have the time invested in training with it. But I'm also looking at .325wsm and .338WM and am open to any other suggestion at this point. My current rifles are in .308, .30-06, and .338LM, but all of those are either to heavy, or, in the case of the .30-06, not a platform (Stevens) I want to invest in.

I've put about 15 hours of Internet research into it so far, but opinions are all over the place, so I thought I'd float it here since most of my shooting lately has been precision rifle.

I'm open to a factory rig but am also considering a custom if that provides enough gain in the balance between weight and functionality. Handloading is an option, but a caliber that can be bought in most hunting towns would obviously be a plus.

Also wondering about titanium actions and would welcome hearing of any experience with those.

So, from full-blown custom to factory, 7WSM and up...how would you do it?

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Certainly a 300WM is one amongst many suitable choices. For a semi-custom rig you might consider a Tikka T3 varmint with your choice of aftermarket stock. I hunt with the .270 and .243 version (same weight and profile as the large cals) and find the rifle strikes a good balance between weight and the benefits of a heavy barrel. Not to mention that for an out of the box rifle the T3 is exceptional.

I've just purchased a KKC stock for the .270 and am amazed at it. It is very ergonomic and absorbs recoil brilliantly. The total weight of my rifle is 10# (inc. scope)but if you were to mount a lighter scope and go with the 20" barrel you'd get some savings. Not sure of availability of the KKC's in the US but here's a link to their website.

KKC
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Stiller TAC 30 or TAC 300, Manners SL,Krieger #5-6 barrel, Seekins rings, and use Rem factory bdl bottom metal. Chamber in either the 300WSM or the 300 WM. The standard 300WM will be more likely to be found in sme of the smaller towns you may end up in. Depending on optics 9-10 pounds is very doable here.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Win Model 70 .300 WSM with 190 gr Berger VLD:

8bfda6df.jpg


That sort of thing is why I have this rifle. Light enough for hunting, accurate enough for range, powerful enough for game. The rifle and a lot of time at the range, judging wind.

BTW - am impressed that you held off and didn't fire when you weren't sure of a killing shot. A lot of guys would have chucked a Hail Mary bullet out there, risking a wounding shot and a lost elk. I've held my fire when I wasn't sure I could make the shot myself. That big mulie buck that I didn't shoot still haunts me.

A man's got to know his limitations...



 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

338LM- I wanted em on thier Back quick- and at range I want them hit hard to get it done.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

if you need factory ammo available and want hard hitting round opt for the 338rum, just put a brake on it. i am building a 338 edge but no factory ammo for that one.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

I would (and did) opt for a large 338.

7WSM will better a lapua class 338 in drop, nearly match it in windage, but gives up quite a bit of energy... which is exactly what you need when putting down an elk. If you go by the rule of thumb of 1500 ft/lbs minimum for elk, then you could shoot out to a little over 800 with the 7mm 180 Berger at 3000 fps. With a 338 300 SMK at 2850, you don't drop below 1500 ft/lbs until about 1300 yards. I don't ever see myself shooting that far at game, but it's nice to have the energy on tap. In your example with the bull at 600, the 7WSM / 180 Berger would deliver about 1950 ft/lbs. The 338 Lapua/Edge / 300 SMK would deliver about 3125 ft/lbs.

I chose to build a 338 Edge for the downrange energy consideration. If I were building a LR rifle simply for paper / steel, I would have built a large 7mm. Cheaper bullets, less powder, less recoil / blast with the 7's... but you pay for it with far less energy on target. You just have to decide what's more important. Personally, I'll pay a little extra to have the increased energy.

Given your self imposed limit of a 24" barrel, I would probably opt for a 338 RUM or Norma throwing 300 SMKs in the 2700-50 range. You won't give up a ton to the Lapua/Edge class (still almost 2900 ft/lbs at 600). Fluted #5 or #6 on a custom action of your choice, mmm mmm good!
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never knew energy killed game. </div></div>

Sure! That's why the 22-250 is so much better on big grizzlies than the 45-70...
grin.gif
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Well, it sure ain't the loud noise that kills 'em!
grin.gif



I use a 7mm Rem Magnum and a 7mm SAUM for shots on big game out to 1000m. It's more than enough gun given the right projectile choice.

What you need is a scope you can dial in, and an understanding of the rifle you your using and how it performs. No need to get a really fancy custom rifle unless you want one. You're better served by using that money to practice shooting at range.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColBatGuano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With less wind I think the .300WM/WSM would be fine, and maybe it would be in that wind as well once I have the time invested in training with it. </div></div>

600 yds. w/ a 15 mph full value wind is about 1/2 mil hold for me. I would've taken the shot with confidence. BUT, I know MY rifle and MY ammo.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but my 22" 300WM shoots 208 Amax's at 2870 FPS. The BC on the 208/210's make it quite the wind cheater. If hunting with the Amax concerns you (I shot holes through 3/8" plate steel at 600 yds. with them) use the 210 Berger or JLK.

The heretofore mentioned 1500 ft/lbs. takes you to just over 1000 yds. I would not hesitate to hold on an elk shoulder at 1000 yards with this rifle/ammo combo. Watching it steel at that range will convince you.

Oh, the wind? How's a 2 mil hold in a 20 mph full value wind at 1900 yds.?

Lots of energy, wind cheating, low recoil (compared to a .338), cheap off-the-shelf, very available ammo, forgiving to reload for, flat shooting... what more could you ask for in a 600 yd. rifle?

John
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

If you had known the rifle and ballistics, no reason it could not have done it. I took my only elk so far at 683 yds, with a 10-12mph crosswind, and a 300WM.

Why not build on the Stevens? It's a Savage action with cheaper add-ons. So replace the add-ons. Add a good barrel, stock, and a Rifle Basix trigger and it will be a shooter. I have a cheap Savage package gun I did this to, and it's about .75MOA with the factory sporter barrel and about the same with a Pac-Nor smokeless muzzleloader barrel.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

I second or third or whatever the 300WM. I went elk hunting last year in Oregon and one of the guys in are group dropped 1 at 550yrds with no problems.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

I'd use this:

97e99e4b.jpg


Rifles Inc ( based on M700) 300 WM, with Ziess 6.5x20. Weighs less than 8 pounds as pictured, shoots less than 1 MOA, needs only 8.75 MOA to get to 500, 12.00 MOA to get to 600. Stick a 180gr Barnes MRX in it and it will do what you need.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

A fluted #5 contour barrel in a Manners 90% carbon shell stock would fit your needs. I personally would build it in 7mm WSM and handload 180 bergers. Since you want to be able to purchase ammo in store, the 300 WSM seems be more available. You will get better performance with reloads at long distance though. This will give you an idea of weight on one I put together for a customer:

Manners MCS T stock
Broughton #5.5 fluted 24"
Remington S/A
BDL floorplate
Talley rings
Leupold 4.5-14 scope

rifle came in at 9lbs with a bipod. Ran the 180 bergers at 2950 and was very accurate.

The key is whatever you choose, shoot the hell out of it and know your rifle. The shot you described, I would have taken and have taken, but I am extremely familiar with my rifle.

Another thing to keep in mind, is alot of people shoot smaller calibers better than the larger recoiling calibers. If you are afraid of the rifle, your accuracy will suffer. If it has the energy requirements met, you won't be handicapped.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

I did forget to congratulate you for passing on the shot. With unfamiliar gear and no dope, it would have likely been less than ethical. BUT, only you on the spot, could have made that call, so no second guessing.

I hunt with lots of guys all year long, work to help them understand what is an ethical shot and what is not in their capabilities under a given set of conditions. Too many would take a poke 'just to see".

Hope you get your critters this year,

Mikee
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....I would've taken the shot with confidence. BUT, I know MY rifle and MY ammo.... </div></div>

And this is the difference why some come home with game and others do not. A longer shot (and wind) is not out of the question in big country, if one really wants to do all he can to be successful on a hunt, he should invest the time and effort to prepare himself and his equipment before the hunt.

It takes more than a certain caliber to make a difficult shot on a large animal. The shooter also has to be physically and mentally prepared to make the shot as well. The difference in taking the shot and taking it with confidence is all mental based on preparations prior to the event.

On the flip side, I hear the disappointment but kudo's to you for not taking a shot that you knew you were not prepared to make. Maybe next time will go better and you can pack a large bull out of the hills.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Unless your hunting in very open county, I'd just stalk closer and close the gap. If your shooting long range and your shot isn't perfect and the Elk bolts, it's sometimes a royal PITA to find where he was when the bullet hit to start tracking. If the conditions and geography are right, it can be done, but it's borderline irresponsible in most situations. I've seen plenty of guys make longish shots and sometimes cringe having been on 5 mile up and down tracking trips through all kinds of heavy brush. I think the worse think that ever happened to Elk hunting was those damned Long Range Hunting videos of guys doing similar long range shots on Elk. I always wonder how many they missed or didn't hit well and ran off. I'm sure their was a little creative editing on their part.

I've shot a few at 600+ with a .338 Lapua, and it(or something ballistically similar) what I would suggest if your pushing out past 400-500 on Elk size game. This was in open fields on private property(culling problem herds). You can watch em run/drop, although the few I shot just dropped where they stood. But it didn't really feel like hunting to me.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

+@10 on the discretion

Lots of fantastic info on this thread Colbat that should get you to where you wanna go IMO. In the end all the information/opinion in the world though is not going to get the job done until put a course into action.

Having bow hunted elk, to hunting them with my .300wm or my uncle using his .270 there is a wide range of very capable calibers at your disposal.

Perhaps the bow hunter in me likes to get close- nothing like it- and that's true hunting. Yet the pragmatist in me grounded in a fair amount of experience- and empty tags knows that isn't always possible. Very wiley and temperamental animals those elk.

Anyway, re read jrob's post. Sound logic is applied. .30 cal anything has it's merits- believe me. That stated, perhaps you should consider these

.260-necked down .308fab ballistics and plenty stable to buck the wind.

.264wm- more of the same , just don't count on shooting the endless rounds. Great caliber but the barrell will burn out b/c of the hot load.

.280/.284- great caliber again- So I hear from older elk hunters. No experience myself but ballisitcally delivers greater range and energy than the .270.

Check them out and see what you think.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much energy does an arrow have after being shot from a bow? </div></div>

Depends on poundage settings,velocity, draw length and arrow weight, but the average hunting set-up would produce between 48-62 foot pounds.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

However you do it, A-TRAG always makes it a bit easier...
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much energy does an arrow have after being shot from a bow? </div></div>

Depends on poundage settings,velocity, draw length and arrow weight, but the average hunting set-up would produce between 48-62 foot pounds. </div></div>

Right on. 42#(or is it 48#?) is bare minimum for downing an elk- but the margin for error is very thin -too thin for me.

My bow tops out at just shy of 72# draw , @424grain arrow including broadhead and delivers @ 76-79 # kinetic energy up to around 70yards.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

You can figure kinetic energy of any archery set-up with this equation...

ke=M * v2 / 450,240

ke=Kinetic Energy M = mass (weight of arrow in grains) v = velocity of arrow in f.p.s.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can figure kinetic energy of any archery set-up with this equation...

ke=M * v2 / 450,240

ke=Kinetic Energy M = mass (weight of arrow in grains) v = velocity of arrow in f.p.s. </div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

And the fact that with archery your only a few yards away when and if you have to start tracking. And with and arrow their is often more blood to follow.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John </div></div>

This statement is correct, but lacks the explanation that took us down this road to begin with.
Someone posted earlier something like "energy" kills! Later someone questioned energy being the killing factor, and some how the energy level of an arrow got drug into the whole thing trying to say arrows kill with comparably no energy.Which is true.
To put this to rest I will just say what everyone here already knows. Bullets kill by "hydrostatic shock" a disruption of the non-compressible water/fluid in the body causing major organ and nervous system damage.
Arrows kill by causing blood lose, period!
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John </div></div>

This statement is correct, but lacks the explanation that took us down this road to begin with.
Someone posted earlier something like "energy" kills! Later someone questioned energy being the killing factor, and some how the energy level of an arrow got drug into the whole thing trying to say arrows kill with comparably no energy.Which is true.
To put this to rest I will just say what everyone here already knows. Bullets kill by "hydrostatic shock" a disruption of the non-compressible water/fluid in the body causing major organ and nervous system damage.
Arrows kill by causing blood lose, period! </div></div>


Hopefully we can avoid a hijack and leave spitting contest on the sideline on this one.

While the "comparison" is apples and oranges ie blunt force trauma vs severed organs /arteries, KE does play an integral part in archery. Without it the projectile would not possess the force or work necessary to be propelled into and through the target body.

For that matter the same argument can be applied to a bullet projectile. Without the necessary energy, adequate blunt force trauma could not be achieved.

I have yet to see anyone let alone a wild animal die from simple "sub dermal hemotoma"............
wink.gif

 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John </div></div>

This statement is correct, but lacks the explanation that took us down this road to begin with.
Someone posted earlier something like "energy" kills! Later someone questioned energy being the killing factor, and some how the energy level of an arrow got drug into the whole thing trying to say arrows kill with comparably no energy.Which is true.
To put this to rest I will just say what everyone here already knows. Bullets kill by "hydrostatic shock" a disruption of the non-compressible water/fluid in the body causing major organ and nervous system damage.
Arrows kill by causing blood lose, period! </div></div>

Sorry AQC,

Guilty of reading the just last 2 posts... I missed that!

John
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Actually this is a great discussion. Very knowledgeable and varying points of view educate everyone.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

waveone

I assumed everyone would understand the arrow had to get to the target!
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Forget the rifles--here's what u need--

025_25.jpg


7-270 WSM XP/7 twist Pac-Nor/200 ULD Wildcat at 2525 mv.

Or you could build one of these-- 338 AXE (Lapua Imp.)--

338AX2.jpg


I'd have still passed on the windage part though with the 7mm.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John </div></div>

This statement is correct, but lacks the explanation that took us down this road to begin with.
Someone posted earlier something like "energy" kills! Later someone questioned energy being the killing factor, and some how the energy level of an arrow got drug into the whole thing trying to say arrows kill with comparably no energy.Which is true.
To put this to rest I will just say what everyone here already knows. Bullets kill by "hydrostatic shock" a disruption of the non-compressible water/fluid in the body causing major organ and nervous system damage.
Arrows kill by causing blood lose, period! </div></div>


Hopefully we can avoid a hijack and leave spitting contest on the sideline on this one.

While the "comparison" is apples and oranges ie blunt force trauma vs severed organs /arteries, KE does play an integral part in archery. Without it the projectile would not possess the force or work necessary to be propelled into and through the target body.

For that matter the same argument can be applied to a bullet projectile. Without the necessary energy, adequate blunt force trauma could not be achieved.

I have yet to see anyone let alone a wild animal die from simple "sub dermal hemotoma"............
wink.gif

</div></div>

We have a winner.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">waveone

I assumed everyone would understand the arrow had to get to the target!</div></div>

I think waveone assumed that too. What he made clear though, was that once there, the arrow had to have enough energy to drive the broadhead tipped arrow "into and through the target body". That is where the kinetic energy of an arrow does it's killing.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sjm229</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
AQC440 said:
</div></div>

Unfortunately, none of this accounts for three razor blades slicing through flesh, that a bullet cannot account for. Apples. Oranges.

John </div></div>

This statement is correct, but lacks the explanation that took us down this road to begin with.
Someone posted earlier something like "energy" kills! Later someone questioned energy being the killing factor, and some how the energy level of an arrow got drug into the whole thing trying to say arrows kill with comparably no energy.Which is true.
To put this to rest I will just say what everyone here already knows. Bullets kill by "hydrostatic shock" a disruption of the non-compressible water/fluid in the body causing major organ and nervous system damage.
Arrows kill by causing blood lose, period! </div></div>


Hopefully we can avoid a hijack and leave spitting contest on the sideline on this one.

While the "comparison" is apples and oranges ie blunt force trauma vs severed organs /arteries, KE does play an integral part in archery. Without it the projectile would not possess the force or work necessary to be propelled into and through the target body.

For that matter the same argument can be applied to a bullet projectile. Without the necessary energy, adequate blunt force trauma could not be achieved.

I have yet to see anyone let alone a wild animal die from simple "sub dermal hemotoma"............
wink.gif

</div></div>

We have a winner.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">waveone

I assumed everyone would understand the arrow had to get to the target!</div></div>

I think waveone assumed that too. What he made clear though, was that once there, the arrow had to have enough energy to drive the broadhead tipped arrow "into and through the target body". That is where the kinetic energy of an arrow does it's killing.
Click to expand...


Right! However those of us who bow hunt must understand that slow deliberate explanation is in order for this crowd. Not that they aren't intelligent, it is simply that the bow nor the arrow goes Boom! when you release it...... probably throws 'em a bit...
grin.gif
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sscoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the rifles--here's what u need--

025_25.jpg


7-270 WSM XP/7 twist Pac-Nor/200 ULD Wildcat at 2525 mv.

Or you could build one of these-- 338 AXE (Lapua Imp.)--

338AX2.jpg


I'd have still passed on the windage part though with the 7mm. </div></div>

Since seeing what these little guys are capable of, im now a believer!!!

That is one hell of a nice stick!!!
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Vman, the 338 is my buddies rig, the 7mm is mine. He has shot some 300's out of it but even with the MB he says it starts to get a bit "recoilly".
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Take a look at the Kimber Montanas...Nice light accurate rifles....A lot of the guys here in SE Alaska use them in the 300WM and .338 WM variety and they stand up great.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">stalk the fucker to 300. </div></div>

Exactly right.30 is even better.Talk about heart pounding, adrenaline rushing sensory overload... it doesn't get much better. Then when you hear him crash.........that rocks
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Thanks guys. Looking hard at the Kimber Montana in .300wm.
 
Re: Elk...600 yards...how would you do it?

Good on you for remembering to pack your ethics with you on your hunt.

Elk are not prairie dogs that people should just fling lead atr and see what drops.

I am all about smaller calibers myself when it comes to hunting, 243 25-06, 270. I like to get good and close even though I am very familiar with my rigs, my mom tells me I am a pretty good shot.

I think if you want to consider taking large animals at extended ranges, you need to consider using the largest calibers/heaviest pills you can handle, for the animals sake.

Any of the .338 mags would be where I would start looking, 250gr pills.
 
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