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Hunting & Fishing Elk rifle suggestions.

jbuck88

jbuck88

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Oct 25, 2010
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I'm starting to plan the next project and I was set on a 300wm for elk and back up for mule deer. Hoping for 7.5-8lbs before scope. Planning on manners EH1, and leaning towards a Bartlein #3.

It's a long process for me to build a gun last one took over 2 years of buying one piece at a time. It gives me the fun of obsessing about each part and buying the right one.

Anyways. I am starting to consider a 300 Norma over the Winchester. It will be replacing a 300h&h, and besides the price of brass up front is there any downside? I would handload 100% for either. I was going to order a defiance deviant or surgeon, but leaning towards the deviant hunter.
 
300 WM is a great cartridge for elk . I can't think of a necessity for the Norma , unless you just want to try something different. Either round will take elk at any reasonable distance.
 
I love my 300wm, but reloading belted mags takes a couple extra steps and precautions. If I wasn't already tooled up for the 300wm, including lots of brass. I would have made a switch to a non-belted fast 30 like the 300 norma mag when my last barrel was shot out. When this barrel is gone and the rest of my brass is worn out, I will probably make the switch.
 
supercorndogs said:
I love my 300wm, but reloading belted mags takes a couple extra steps and precautions. If I wasn't already tooled up for the 300wm, including lots of brass. I would have made a switch to a non-belted fast 30 like the 300 norma mag when my last barrel was shot out. When this barrel is gone and the rest of my brass is worn out, I will probably make the switch.
Click to expand...

Agree!!
 
I have a beast .30-338Norma Mag Improved, yet will be taking my 6.5 SAUM 4s elk hunting (if we draw tags)
For one, I don't wanna carry that big bitch. Secondly, I couldn't have built a big Norma nearly as light as the 6.5. And even if I got close to ~9lbs. finished/loaded carry weight, a Norma Mag would be brutal to shoot. A braked 6.5 SAUM is a pussycat, easy to shoot very well...

Also, when considering a Norma Mag (Lapua boltface), you'll likely want to use an action specifically designed to handle the extra bolt thrust (long action, .750" bolt body)
 
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psinclair said:
You don't need a big rifle to kill elk. Get something you'll shoot a lot and get good with....elk are easy to kill if you know how to shoot. How much practicing are you going to do with a 7.5 pound .300 Norma?
Click to expand...

Listen to this man. If you want a win mag, by all means go for it.. but practicing enough in compromised field positions with a light magnum rifle isn't a lot of fun. I used to shoot an un-braked, sporter weight .300 RUM for elk and range sessions got old really fast. I finally put a good brake on it and it was still unpleasant. I build a .280 AI to replace it (no muzzle brake). it's a good balance of performance without all the recoil of a magnum. It has a bart #3 as well.

Good choice on the EH1.. it's quickly becoming my favorite stock.
 
I was thinking a 7.5lb rifle is going to end up around ~10lbs by the time you add ammo and a 30oz scope. A 10lb braked 300WM is easy enough to shoot. Yes elk are easy to kill, but occasionally you need to anchor one. They have a tendency to run down hill after being shot, so you have a choice to put them down at the top of the ridge where it will be an easy pack out or let them run to the bottom to make it fun. I was considering a 280ai as well, and it probably is at least as good of an option as a smaller 300 magnum. Figure a 300NM is pretty much the equivalent to the 300Wby, but without the belt.

I have used a 30-06 for the majority of hunting and it has worked every time without fail, so that is all I "need." This is more of a want then need.
 
I went round and round about this as well, I finally settled on a 6.5 Saum for 90% of my hunting needs. My father in law has taken no less than 20 elk, bulls and cows, with the time tested 30-06. I really don't think you need a super magnum for elk these days. Lots of really well designed bullets today for 6.5's that can do the job in a light weight rifle with less recoil. I would even feel comfortable with a 6.5 creedmore inside 600 yards as long as your using a good bullet and make a decent shot. Too many articles out there about long range hunting and taking game at 1100 yards. Very rarely will you have to shoot that far, unless your just into it. A good .308 with a good bullet is just fine for most elk situations.
 
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The theme (to which I agree) is there are fewer choices that wont take elk than will. You likely wont take a 1084 yard shot across a ravine despite what youtube would have you believe. Here in Colorado, the limitation is impact energy at 100 yards. I believe some .243s make the list. Good sportsmanship, knowledge, common sense, etc will yield fine results with likely something you have already. Seems year after year rifle, ammo, and outdoor companies lead you to believe you need X product to make the (insert animal here) deader than you could last season.
 
Never been elk hunting, but most of the guys i see on the outdoor channel are either shooting a 300wm or the 338lapua. I agree with what others have said though, which one would you shoot more often? Thats a lot of kinetic energy out of the 300wm. That being said, I have seen plenty of DRT kills with 6.5 variants as well.
 
If your mind is set on the 300WM then go with that. I have Tikka 300WM that is 6 lbs un-scoped and 8 lbs scoped, it has a heavier contour bbl and irons. Sure, If I load up some 220 RN over some Retumbo, It lets me know I am still alive, but some 170's or 180's for elk and 155's for deer is no prob. Also brass is relatively cheap for the 300, you can still find some federal primed pulldowns floating out there for fun. Plethora of match brass by most of the manufactures.
 
sheepdog697 said:
Never been elk hunting, but most of the guys i see on the outdoor channel are either shooting a 300wm or the 338lapua. I agree with what others have said though, which one would you shoot more often? Thats a lot of kinetic energy out of the 300wm. That being said, I have seen plenty of DRT kills with 6.5 variants as well.
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Most of those guys on the outdoor channel will have an expensive 300 or 338 and then a tasco on top of it, then tell you how they saw this elk at 450 yards and held high just over the shoulder. Shit drives me up the wall. If i'm buying factory ammo i'll buy 200-500 rounds at a time and shoot enough to know my drops in mils out to 500. Psinclair's advice is spot on. My recommendation would be for a 6.5 or 7saum but if you really want to stick with a .30cal go for 300wsm, just like a win mag minus the belt.
 
schmi015 said:
Most of those guys on the outdoor channel will have an expensive 300 or 338 and then a tasco on top of it, then tell you how they saw this elk at 450 yards and held high just over the shoulder. Shit drives me up the wall. If i'm buying factory ammo i'll buy 200-500 rounds at a time and shoot enough to know my drops in mils out to 500. Psinclair's advice is spot on. My recommendation would be for a 6.5 or 7saum but if you really want to stick with a .30cal go for 300wsm, just like a win mag minus the belt.
Click to expand...

Agreed, shot ma last two elk with my 7SAUM. Wicked ballistics and very accurate, last two elk were 500 and 970, both cold bore, one and done.
 
We have killed plenty of elk with a 270 Win shooting 130 gr to 150 gr bullets from 100 to 500+ yards with one shot kills Shot placement is by far the single most important factor in harvesting. A 300 WM or 338 LM for that matter will hardly compensate for a poor shot. Unless one is comfortable comfortable shooting a lightweight magnum rifle they should probably stick with a lighter caliber that they can shoot accurately.
 
While I am in the process of having a 300NM built, part for an ELD match here and there and for Elk at longer distance, I won't be using it as a primary gun. .30-06 and the several other calibers around it in energy and velocity are fine for elk to about 400 yards +/- based on bullet and load. My main elk gun is a .338-06 that weighs 6.5 pounds with optic. It is a dream to carry and shoot and will likely be used for 90% or more of the deer and elk I shoot until I no longer can hunt.

I don't think I would want to lug around a 300NM on a regular basis, I might be worried about some shots inside 300 yards due to lack of expansion, depending of course on bullet. As a 2nd gun, yes, as a primary gun, I think there are better choices as others have already said.
 
I built a 7RM similar to your desired rifle I had built by Phoenix Custom Rifles.
R700 LA BDL trued
Tactical stubby knob
Manners EH2 in GAP camo
Bartlein #3 fluted 1:8.5" twist @ 26" finished plus APA Micro Bastard brake
All metal Cerakote in Armor Black (flat like a blackboard)
Timney Calvin Elite @ 8oz.
Seekins 20MOA Picatinny base
Seekins Precision 34mm Low 4 screw rings (just swapped from Badger Max 50 alloys)
S&B PMII 3-20×50 w. H2CMR

Weighs in at 9lbs 6oz unloaded. Shoots like a Lazer. 180 Berger Hybrid @ 2996fps into the .3s regularly.

Just took it out 2 weekends ago to keep in practice for my upcoming elk hunt. Shot at 600, 802, 957 yards.

Here was my 5 shot group at 802. 2.75".

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_105116_zpsd2he3f4e.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Shooting down a dead end road where we hang our steel on the mountainside. So we know it is safe.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_105121_zpscwdnancs.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_135029_zpsxdniux2b.jpg"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_135844_zps700igirx.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
If I didn't know any better, I would say these are the hills north of Carefree highway off of i-17 somewhere.. in Arizona.. right?
 
I've had great success dropping elk and big mulies here in WY with a 308 shooting a 168 Berger vld, 165 gr interbond, 168 gr ttsx, and others. 7rm is also another favorite of mine with 162 gr and 168 gr bullets. I've seen too many guys out in the field shoot at game with big ol magnums and couldn't hit shit! Find a good comfortable caliber that you're accurate with.... But, it is always nice to get a new toy too!
 
.30 Nosler would be worth a look.
Same bolt face as the Win Mag, no belt, more performance but not in the .300 Norma class
 
You cant beat a .30-'06 for ammo availability, at the Walmart, in Timbuktu, if you happen to forget yours, on your way hunting (don't ask). I have been using one for elk for close to 20 years.-180 grain soft point are what I use. Rarely do we get shots over 150 yards due to timber though.
 
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You guys must have some huge elk, I don't see a need for any more then a 270 Win. w/150 gr bullets. Though after seeing the hole I could drive a truck through on a mule deer at 365 yards last year with my 6.5 CM (142 Grn Hornady) I'm gonna try it next year.

I have two Model 70's in 300 WM, but just don't see the need for them for elk or anything else I hunt. Just too old to enjoy getting beat up.
 
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kraigWY said:
You guys must have some huge elk, I don't see a need for any more then a 270 Win. w/150 gr bullets. Though after seeing the hole I could drive a truck through on a mule deer at 365 yards last year with my 6.5 CM (142 Grn Hornady) I'm gonna try it next year.

I have two Model 70's in 300 WM, but just don't see the need for them for elk or anything else I hunt. Just too old to enjoy getting beat up.
Click to expand...

Agreed, 260 or a Creedmoor is enough, and wont beat you up.
 
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dirthead1 said:
coldbore,

What would be your bullet choice in 6.5 Creedmoor for elk?
Click to expand...

My 260 loves Barnes Match Burners, so thats what I would shoot. We've killed a couple with Hornady 140BTHP's as well, and my son took his first elk in January with a PVRI 120 BTHP seen here:

It didn't pass through as you can see, but I didn't expect it to at 500+ yards, it did the job fine though, she never made it more than 10-20yds


Ive seen others do well with 123's and 140 Amax's as well, though I personally have never used them. Every body would call the 140 ELD a shoe in, including myself, but I watched a buddy pull one out of an elk last fall, didnt even open. That was likely an isolated incident, but spooked me some.
 
psinclair said:
You don't need a big rifle to kill elk. Get something you'll shoot a lot and get good with....elk are easy to kill if you know how to shoot. How much practicing are you going to do with a 7.5 pound .300 Norma?
Click to expand...

Agreed!! I just switched from a 300wm (I'd used for years), to a 260. Got a bull elk this year with the 260, no issues!
 
I have an old Tikka695 in 300WM. Always hated sighting it in. Then six years ago I began shooting as a hobby, annually putting a few thousand 223 rounds down range from the prone. Now that I have learned to shoot the 300 is not a big deal; don't shoot it often but the skills apply. That old Tikka cost $300 but is as smooth and accurate as anything at 10 times the cost; yes I have those too for comparison.
 
If you all are shooting mule deer and elk at 500 plus with 6.5 creed, 260, 270, and 30/06 then there is no need for us Southern deer hunters to look any further than a 243 for most deer that are going to be around 150 lbs or less. Some can get 200 and up to 250 down here, but that is the exception.

The only difference I can see is our game can run into thick swamps and thickets where out west you can watch them run til they drop.

Tracking can can get challenging at times pending location.

 
That's the issue where I hunt (PNW). Swamps, mountains, valleys, and logging roads. If you can anchor a elk near a logging road it makes it so much easier to pack out then if runs off the side of the road and tumbles half mile down hill.
 
Don't get carried away looking at the big magnums for elk. Unless you are talking 800-1,000 yard shots then you can do it with a LOT less rifle. We live in the heart of elk country in Montana. Mind you I have never killed an elk or mule deer here that wasn't in my front or back yard. No reason for me to go on epic adventures when they straggle through the yard around 8 am every morning of season. Here's something to consider. In the state of Montana there are tons of surveys on this sort of thing. The number one rifle used to take elk here, even by guides and professional outfitters is a 30-06....in a very close second is a 30-30 Winchester. Let that sink in a little before selecting a big magnum to do the job of a much lesser caliber. Now if you just want to build one, then cool beans man, rock out. Just keep in mind that it isn't necessary at all. Elk are essentially BIG deer. It doesn't take much more than a well placed shot to put them down.
 
My rifle now is a 300h&h. It's a between the 30-06 and 300wm.

So so far it works, but ADD kicks in and sometimes you "need" something else.
 
I absolutely LOVE the 300 h-h, it's just hard to find factory loads for it anymore. I have it in a Ruger number 1 and it is a meat getting sure shot.
 
Glad to know I don't feel like a crazy person.....I am planning to go shoot Moose, Elk, Caribou and a Mtn. Goat with a 6.5PRC using the factory loaded 143ELD-X. Reading some of these other threads had be chewing my nails and contemplating a bigger stick.

Was leaning towards the GAP 4S(SAUM) originally until I saw the PRC, I do not reload.
 
I've never hunted with the Berger VLD bullets so have no first hand experience. I've been using 160gr AB in my 280AI used it last year 4th season elk tag.

I see no reason not to use the 280AI with Berger bullets for elk 5/600yds. I drew 3rd season buck tag and cow elk tag and I plan on taking the 280AI not sure what back up rifle yet. Bull tag this year going to hunt with a bow.
 
supercorndogs said:
I love my 300wm, but reloading belted mags takes a couple extra steps and precautions. If I wasn't already tooled up for the 300wm, including lots of brass. I would have made a switch to a non-belted fast 30 like the 300 norma mag when my last barrel was shot out. When this barrel is gone and the rest of my brass is worn out, I will probably make the switch.
Click to expand...

I have seen this written other places, I'm in the process of getting into LR shooting and reloading. I have been reading everything I can about reloading but I have not seen anything about these extra steps for the belted mags. Can you explain? I need all the help I can get. Thanks!
 
codym said:
I have seen this written other places, I'm in the process of getting into LR shooting and reloading. I have been reading everything I can about reloading but I have not seen anything about these extra steps for the belted mags. Can you explain? I need all the help I can get. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes, do tell. I must have missed something because I load them the same as any other.
 
codym said:
I have seen this written other places, I'm in the process of getting into LR shooting and reloading. I have been reading everything I can about reloading but I have not seen anything about these extra steps for the belted mags. Can you explain? I need all the help I can get. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I've been reloading for a 7mag for several years. I don't take any extra steps with my xbolt and it's a genuine .5" gun after load work up.
 
lancetkenyon said:
I built a 7RM similar to your desired rifle I had built by Phoenix Custom Rifles.
R700 LA BDL trued
Tactical stubby knob
Manners EH2 in GAP camo
Bartlein #3 fluted 1:8.5" twist @ 26" finished plus APA Micro Bastard brake
All metal Cerakote in Armor Black (flat like a blackboard)
Timney Calvin Elite @ 8oz.
Seekins 20MOA Picatinny base
Seekins Precision 34mm Low 4 screw rings (just swapped from Badger Max 50 alloys)
S&B PMII 3-20×50 w. H2CMR

Weighs in at 9lbs 6oz unloaded. Shoots like a Lazer. 180 Berger Hybrid @ 2996fps into the .3s regularly.

Just took it out 2 weekends ago to keep in practice for my upcoming elk hunt. Shot at 600, 802, 957 yards.

Here was my 5 shot group at 802. 2.75".

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_105116_zpsd2he3f4e.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Shooting down a dead end road where we hang our steel on the mountainside. So we know it is safe.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_105121_zpscwdnancs.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_135029_zpsxdniux2b.jpg"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i642.photobucket.com\/albums\/uu142\/lancetkenyon13\/New%207mm%20RM%20Build\/20170401_135844_zps700igirx.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Click to expand...

Those boys do nice work! They recently put a Lil Bastard on my 7RM. Can’t wait to shoot it when my scope gets here.
 
AthlonOpticsGuy said:
Nice! I live out in Cave Creek, love the area north of the Valley, you ever spend much time up in Crown King by chance?
Click to expand...

Paradise Valley but got tired of the idiots in the desert so I grabbed a membership at Cowtown. Was up on Crown King last weekend spotting and calling in javelina to fill little brothers tag.
 
coldboremiracle said:
Yes, do tell. I must have missed something because I load them the same as any other.
Click to expand...
Same here. Resize and load just like any other cartridge. On my 7th & 8th loadings on some of my 7RM Rem R-P brass. Only had one issue out of 350+ pieces on the 8th firing of one. Bump shoulders back .002" like all others.

I had a .3" 4 shot group going, but the 5th was a flier opening it up to .8", and speed was off from the others by about 30fps. I didn't notice anything until I got home and went to resize. I would assume this had to have been the issue. Checked about 20 others with a bent paper clip but could not feel any issues inside the case at the belt. I am calling it a fluke. 180gr Hybrid @ 2996fps. No pressure signs in a ton of fired rounds. Had them up to 3070 before I found pressure. Accuracy is at this speed though.

 
Why someone would need anything bigger than a 6mm PPC is beyond me. Wyoming regs specify .24 caliber with a 2 inch cartridge length minimum. No sense in beating yourself up carrying a 14 pound magnum around plus the recoil.
 
If I'm traveling to hunt I don't bring a rifle that shoots wildcats, or even domesticated cats. I want something that shoots common cartridges I can get over the counter. I don't shoot store-bought ammo...ever. I can't remember the last time I paid for a box of cartridges, but I have had luggage lost, and rounds misplaced, and I was very happy to have brought a .308, or a .30-06, or .300WM that was readily available. I could have borrowed someone else's rifle, but was much happier to have mine even with Core-Lokts.

We don't have elk where I live, so it's a trip every time. Is .300WM THE BEST cartridge ever? No, but it's common and will hammer any North American, deer like beast. To me it's the obvious choice.

I use a https://kahntrol.com/ brake on my .300WM. It's the best one I've found. The impulse is less than a straight .308. I will shoot a 100 round box on a range trip and not notice a thing afterwards. When I shoot a round of sporting clays my shoulder is sore the next day. All brakes are not created equally, and if you plan on shooting at distance you have to DOPE and practice, so it has to be pleasant to shoot. Mine is.
 
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