Email from Q - ATF issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol *UPDATE*

[iktomi]

just to be clear, your argument is based on the proposition that modern handguns are “designed and intended” to be shot with one hand?

The Gun Control Act defines a pistol as a firearm that is intended to fire a bullet while held with one hand.

For something to be a pistol (under the GCA68) it would need to meet that criteria. By extension, for an AR15 to classify as a pistol, it would need to be intended to be shot one handed.

But this doesn't matter. The ATF doesn’t address the essential “pistolness” of the Honey Badger or the Sugar Weasel.

The order asserts that the Bureau has classified those designs as SBRs.

To meet the criteria set forth by the GCA68, the firearm would be a rifle if it was designed or redesigned, made or remade to be shouldered.

I am speculating that Q's very public comparison between the design characteristics of the Honey Badger (and by extension the Sugar Weasel) and a MP5 SBR could be construed as meeting the criteria of designing a rifle.

If it meets that criteria, then the barrel length classifies them as SBRs under the NFA of 1937, and would require a stamp by statue.

 

[iktomi]

Maybe the better question would be is the fact that a manufacturer designs and intends a “pistol” to be shot with two hands sufficient to re-classify the “pistol” into a short-barreled rifle?

Obviously, that is not the position that has been taken with handguns. Yes, they can be shot with one hand. Yes, certain manufacturers obviously have design elements intended for two handed operation of “pistols”. Traditionally and in practice, "pistols" have not been reclassified to an "sbr" based on that.

That alone is enough to show enforcement is arbitrary and capricious and that the statutory definition of a “pistol” is logically inconsistent and not being applied according to current practices.

By definition, a firearm designed and intended to be shot with two hands is not-a-pistol.

(As a thought experiment, can you imagine any modern (or archaic) pistol that is designed in a way that it cannot be shot one-handed?)

Per GCA68, if you could figure out a way to make a pistol-like-thing that requires the use of both hands, by definition that thing would not be a "pistol".

To be a short-barreled rifle, it needs to be designed to be shouldered and have a barrel shorter than 16". So that new invention wouldn't be a rifle, and the ATF wouldn't designate it as such.

The GCA68 addresses 'pistols' and 'revolvers', but does not define 'handguns' (I don't think). Since that category of firearm has not been defined by the Gun Control Act, I cannot imagine that the ATF has a position on whatever that term references.

To your final point, I believe one could extensively articulate far more foundational problems with the GCA68 and NFA of 1937 then sloppy language, such as standing in direct contradiction to the Second Amendment.


It is important to note, the GCA68 criteria for a rifle only apply to the making a designing of a firearm. Not on use, or "current practices".

If the "weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

• a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);
• and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)."

it is a pistol.

It doesn't matter what you do with it.

If you get involved in remaking or redesigning it for other purposes, it might be a rifle, if it meets the criteria during the remaking.

So don't ever intend for your pistol to be a rifle if you get the itch to remake it.

(I assure you, I never intend for my pistol, your pistol, or anyone else's pistol to be a rifle. My design intensions are all one-handed, all the time.)

 

[GTOJOSH]

DEF is an improvement over the DPF systems that tried to BURN the soot away.

Yes. And aoc is better than pelosi because you could still mate with her if needs be. But both d-p-f (Older model Pelosi) and d-e-f (newer model AOC) are d-u-m-b. Government overreach into the auto industry is just Another groin punch from unelected, and therefore unchecked group of do nothing "policy creators" with no checks and balances. I've seen the fords re-gen and shoot flames from the tailpipe to burn out the soot. Scary garage fire hazzard. However, any system that can decide your vehicle is in control because your def quality is low, so you've got 10 miles till your engine turns off and folds its arms pouting like a 2 year old until you fix an emissions sensor, etc is just another step toward loss of individual rights and control. And wouldn't be there if it weren't for those who make their living off our backs. Deregulate, neuter, and abolish all unconstitutional 3 letter agencies, and those that identify as 5 letter ones.

 

[Bubs]

The main problem is---the endless amount of stupid assholes writing ATF----Can I shoulder my brace legally?----STFU morons.

 

[Longshot231]

If it sounds like fun, then you can't do it.

 

[10ring'r]

Everything the lettered agencies touch become flappy, useless, deflated nippleless gender neutral dolphin crying ass hippy boobs.

I've really got to pin this quote up somewhere, because, memorizing this, is going to be quite the chore, for me, at least. Mac

 

[GUNNER10]

Hurt Trump? He is packing SCOTUS with Young Conservatives. This, in theory, should overturn a lot of these unconstitutional laws. Including his EO on Bump Stocks.

I am not so confident that Trumps court picks are going to overturn any of these unconstitutional laws, I know things do no happen over night, but ultimatuly many of these unconstitutional laws even of overturned at a lower court well be simply elevated until they find a court that says otherwise.

Although I think that ACB is way better than RBG, if confirmed, we are replacing somebody that felt the 2nd amendment was to arm the police and national guard, with somebody may feel that the 2nd applies to individuals, but also feels that the State has the authority to suspend civil rights based on if somebody who works for them says there is an emergency.

I just don't see how ACB changes the dynamics of the courts. This is the same court that 10 years to finally take another 2nd amendment case, and when did, they took the only case in the pipeline that was already mooted.

 

[digitalshooter]

I really do think it was Qs marketing of their pistols. You market something as a pistol version of a SBR and you're libel to piss the ATF off. Add in the fact that Q didn't send in a sample of the brace when asked by the ATF and you're just asking asking for the ATF to come screw you. The ATF doesn't like it when you tell them no.

 

[GUNNER10]

I really do think it was Qs marketing of their pistols. You market something as a pistol version of a SBR and you're libel to piss the ATF off. Add in the fact that Q didn't send in a sample of the brace when asked by the ATF and you're just asking asking for the ATF to come screw you. The ATF doesn't like it when you tell them no.

I am not sure that Q was specifically on the ATF's radar because of marketing. The ATF at its core is just another government agency where most of the day is filled out surfing youtube, doing annual trainer, or responding to emails.

What i think is more likely to have occurred, is Kevin, being quite the edge lord pissed somebody off and they made a call and next thing you know, he is on the ATF's radar.

Kevin has had this reputation dating back to the whole gemtax incident and is constantly shitting on his critics and competitors on social media. Its a dirt bag move, but I could see it happening

 

[silentwoods]

I am not sure that Q was specifically on the ATF's radar because of marketing. The ATF at its core is just another government agency where most of the day is filled out surfing youtube, doing annual trainer, or responding to emails.

What i think is more likely to have occurred, is Kevin, being quite the edge lord pissed somebody off and they made a call and next thing you know, he is on the ATF's radar.

Kevin has had this reputation dating back to the whole gemtax incident and is constantly shitting on his critics and competitors on social media. Its a dirt bag move, but I could see it happening

This.

I was explaining the whole KB/Dater/ rebuilding cans thing last night.
KB has been on their radar for a long time.

Personally, it's time to do away with the whole ridiculous SBR designation anyways.

It would be a great start for sure.

 

[silentwoods]

They would be making the worst mistakes of their entire lives IMHO.

This Election is a MUST WIN for republicans and gun owners. If we don’t, you won’t have to concern yourself with Bump stocks or Pistol Braces! They should be thinking of the SCOTUS PICKS as they are the #1 most important thing long term along with bringing Jobs back to America!
[/QUOTE

Say Trump doesn't manage to lose next month.....
What happens after that 4 years?

Will the US be a constitutional republic again?

Will the deep state be gone?

Will the NSA not be spying?

Will a fight still be coming?

Will we all be a few years older and slower?

Yes, I'd much prefer Trump win before you come off the rails in a reply,

I'm just being pragmatic here. This whole thing is a house of cards and the wind is picking up.

I work in electrical generation, and the current direction is not good to put it mildly.

Every single thing is reliant on electrical generation, before transmission. And it's a shit show to put it mildly.

 

[david walter]

Nice in concept, but not really how the SCOTUS interacts with the federal “administrative agencies.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/25/gorsuch-is-right-about-chevron-deference/%3foutputType=amp

Ah, and therein lies the difference between "law" and "policy". The ATF cannot make law; however they can and often do make policy... which is what we're seeing here.

 

[TDFT1]

The Gun Control Act defines a pistol as a firearm that is intended to fire a bullet while held with one hand.

For something to be a pistol (under the GCA68) it would need to meet that criteria. By extension, for an AR15 to classify as a pistol, it would need to be intended to be shot one handed.

But this doesn't matter. The ATF doesn’t address the essential “pistolness” of the Honey Badger or the Sugar Weasel.

The order asserts that the Bureau has classified those designs as SBRs.

To meet the criteria set forth by the GCA68, the firearm would be a rifle if it was designed or redesigned, made or remade to be shouldered.

I am speculating that Q's very public comparison between the design characteristics of the Honey Badger (and by extension the Sugar Weasel) and a MP5 SBR could be construed as meeting the criteria of designing a rifle.

If it meets that criteria, then the barrel length classifies them as SBRs under the NFA of 1937, and would require a stamp by statue.

The number of Pistol Stocks and braces skyrocketed today. Some in Ban state are selling off everything!

 

[TDFT1]

I am not so confident that Trumps court picks are going to overturn any of these unconstitutional laws, I know things do no happen over night, but ultimatuly many of these unconstitutional laws even of overturned at a lower court well be simply elevated until they find a court that says otherwise.

Although I think that ACB is way better than RBG, if confirmed, we are replacing somebody that felt the 2nd amendment was to arm the police and national guard, with somebody may feel that the 2nd applies to individuals, but also feels that the State has the authority to suspend civil rights based on if somebody who works for them says there is an emergency.

I just don't see how ACB changes the dynamics of the courts. This is the same court that 10 years to finally take another 2nd amendment case, and when did, they took the only case in the pipeline that was already mooted.

Only time and cases heard will tell us one way or another. I am much more confident now as the one male justice was the sticking point. Republican appointee appointed by ? That’s why they didn’t hear cases for 10-15 years.. might have been Bush Sr/jr pick.

I’ll update when I look it up..

 

[TDFT1]

This.

I was explaining the whole KB/Dater/ rebuilding cans thing last night.
KB has been on their radar for a long time.

Personally, it's time to do away with the whole ridiculous SBR designation anyways.

It would be a great start for sure.

This is exactly what I meant when I said Q and the Majority owners business model is BS regardless of “Gorilla Marketing” and JR is pimping his stuff. We know there are internal forces wanting Trump out.

I mean who shits on TBAC, Bartlein, and Tooley just to name a few of the people nobody else takes issue with.

 

[TDFT1]

I am not sure that Q was specifically on the ATF's radar because of marketing. The ATF at its core is just another government agency where most of the day is filled out surfing youtube, doing annual trainer, or responding to emails.

What i think is more likely to have occurred, is Kevin, being quite the edge lord pissed somebody off and they made a call and next thing you know, he is on the ATF's radar.

Kevin has had this reputation dating back to the whole gemtax incident and is constantly shitting on his critics and competitors on social media. Its a dirt bag move, but I could see it happening

Absolutely, I am just glad I never purchased from them.

 

[TDFT1]

This.

I was explaining the whole KB/Dater/ rebuilding cans thing last night.
KB has been on their radar for a long time.

Personally, it's time to do away with the whole ridiculous SBR designation anyways.

It would be a great start for sure.

Having Trump JR Market his stuff, they are doing everything to sway as many votes as possible!

 

[GUNNER10]

Absolutely, I am just glad I never purchased from them.

Yeah,

The thing is there is so much good gear out there, one does not have to partake in such erratic behavior. After listening to a good amount of his podcast, he comes across as odd.

One one hand, he put together a pretty nice operation with Q, I Love the concept of the fix. I think the honey badger pretty much made SMG's obsolete so I have to give credit where credit is due. I think that is concepts are going to have a lasting impact on the community.

With that being said, almost every other post on instagram is some variant of I am soo smart, you guys are soo dumb, my stuff is soo much better than yours, If you guys were not so lazy and dumb maybe your stuff would not be soo awful, Batlien makes shit barrels.

Now every post is help me NRA, Help every gun owner, Help me beautiful 6lb 8oz baby Jesus. You know what, I think I am going to sit this one out as I really don't care what the ATF does or does not decide on the matter, I would file it in the same drawer the i file 922r.

I mean Christ...You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

 

[digitalshooter]

I am not sure that Q was specifically on the ATF's radar because of marketing. The ATF at its core is just another government agency where most of the day is filled out surfing youtube, doing annual trainer, or responding to emails.

What i think is more likely to have occurred, is Kevin, being quite the edge lord pissed somebody off and they made a call and next thing you know, he is on the ATF's radar.

Kevin has had this reputation dating back to the whole gemtax incident and is constantly shitting on his critics and competitors on social media. Its a dirt bag move, but I could see it happening

They didn't have to be on ATFs radar for marketing. This all started during an audit ATF was doing. So if one of their auditors realized that the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistol were the same thing just one had a stock and the other had a pistol brace and then looked at how it was being marketed that could've started this whole thing. Add into the fact they never sent a sample of the brace to the ATF when requested they decided to go after them for it. With how close the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistols are and their marketing of the pistol it wouldn't be all that hard to do.

 

[GUNNER10]

They didn't have to be on ATFs radar for marketing. This all started during an audit ATF was doing. So if one of their auditors realized that the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistol were the same thing just one had a stock and the other had a pistol brace and then looked at how it was being marketed that could've started this whole thing. Add into the fact they never sent a sample of the brace to the ATF when requested they decided to go after them for it. With how close the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistols are and their marketing of the pistol it wouldn't be all that hard to do.

I just don't see that audit happening with somebody in the industry who knows how inspections work makes a phone call and says KB is selling illegal SBR's. Just like most field agents dont care about 922r or engraving depth, most inspectors don't care what actually goes on as long as their logs are good to go.

 

[TDFT1]

They didn't have to be on ATFs radar for marketing. This all started during an audit ATF was doing. So if one of their auditors realized that the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistol were the same thing just one had a stock and the other had a pistol brace and then looked at how it was being marketed that could've started this whole thing. Add into the fact they never sent a sample of the brace to the ATF when requested they decided to go after them for it. With how close the Honey Badger and Honey Badger pistols are and their marketing of the pistol it wouldn't be all that hard to do.

I agree, will never truly know! Could have been a lot of things.

 

[TDFT1]

Yeah,

The thing is there is so much good gear out there, one does not have to partake in such erratic behavior. After listening to a good amount of his podcast, he comes across as odd.

One one hand, he put together a pretty nice operation with Q, I Love the concept of the fix. I think the honey badger pretty much made SMG's obsolete so I have to give credit where credit is due. I think that is concepts are going to have a lasting impact on the community.

With that being said, almost every other post on instagram is some variant of I am soo smart, you guys are soo dumb, my stuff is soo much better than yours, If you guys were not so lazy and dumb maybe your stuff would not be soo awful, Batlien makes shit barrels.

Now every post is help me NRA, Help every gun owner, Help me beautiful 6lb 8oz baby Jesus. You know what, I think I am going to sit this one out as I really don't care what the ATF does or does not decide on the matter, I would file it in the same drawer the i file 922r.

I mean Christ...You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

I agree with you, had they been cool to everyone, I would have bought both. Who wants to deal with the a Year wait to get gun and year wait (depending on how you file) for Form approval and the company being jerks.

I don’t care either, as I didn’t with bump stocks, but then, as now, I do care about what could be next!!

 

[digitalshooter]

Yeah,

The thing is there is so much good gear out there, one does not have to partake in such erratic behavior. After listening to a good amount of his podcast, he comes across as odd.

One one hand, he put together a pretty nice operation with Q, I Love the concept of the fix. I think the honey badger pretty much made SMG's obsolete so I have to give credit where credit is due. I think that is concepts are going to have a lasting impact on the community.

With that being said, almost every other post on instagram is some variant of I am soo smart, you guys are soo dumb, my stuff is soo much better than yours, If you guys were not so lazy and dumb maybe your stuff would not be soo awful, Batlien makes shit barrels.

Now every post is help me NRA, Help every gun owner, Help me beautiful 6lb 8oz baby Jesus. You know what, I think I am going to sit this one out as I really don't care what the ATF does or does not decide on the matter, I would file it in the same drawer the i file 922r.

I mean Christ...You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

I understand what you're saying. I don't know anything about KB. In fact never really heard of him until a few days ago. But there are enough people saying the same thing you are about him. I get it, you don't want to help him. But this isn't about him, it's about all of us. They came for the bumpstocks. I could give two shits about bumpstocks but all the supporters said just wait because if the ATF wins that battle there will be more and they were right. Now they're coming after pistol braces, I get it. They started with probably the SBA3 several months ago and now the pistols that Q sells. If they win this one as well there will porbably be more attacks to come and not just on bumpstocks and pistol braces. They'll try for other stuff.

I don't know if you like pistol braces or not. I don't really like them. But for some they are the only option because they don't live in a NFA friendly state or they don't want their name on a list or it's just not practical for them to do an SBR for some reason because of the regulations on them or they don't want to have to worry about the regulations. No matter what the reason though it's a tenious thing to do because you're skirting the law through a loophole in the law that could be closed at anytime which is what the ATF may be trying to do or they just want to give it to KB up the backside because he pissed them off. But people need to realize the position they're in when they build a pistol. That much is for sure. We're better off fighting to get the NFA and GCA repealed.

But if we let them win there will be more attacks on our right to keep and bear arms, that much is certain. So don't think of it as helping KB, think of it as helping everyone else and yourself to keep your rights. Otherwise one day they will be gone.

 

[digitalshooter]

And that's why the left is winning. We keep basing things on a popularity contest whether it's to help people or how popular the product is. In the end I just want to be left alone to shoot my guns and live my life. But the left isn't going to allow that. They're making it so we are having to fight to keep our rights. We've got to stop this infighting BS and come together to keep our rights, not sit on the sidelines because we don't like a certain product or person.

 

[TDFT1]

I understand what you're saying. I don't know anything about KB. In fact never really heard of him until a few days ago. But there are enough people saying the same thing you are about him. I get it, you don't want to help him. But this isn't about him, it's about all of us. They came for the bumpstocks. I could give two shits about bumpstocks but all the supporters said just wait because if the ATF wins that battle there will be more and they were right. Now they're coming after pistol braces, I get it. They started with probably the SBA3 several months ago and now the pistols that Q sells. If they win this one as well there will porbably be more attacks to come and not just on bumpstocks and pistol braces. They'll try for other stuff.

I don't know if you like pistol braces or not. I don't really like them. But for some they are the only option because they don't live in a NFA friendly state or they don't want their name on a list or it's just not practical for them to do an SBR for some reason because of the regulations on them or they don't want to have to worry about the regulations. No matter what the reason though it's a tenious thing to do because you're skirting the law through a loophole in the law that could be closed at anytime which is what the ATF may be trying to do or they just want to give it to KB up the backside because he pissed them off. But people need to realize the position they're in when they build a pistol. That much is for sure. We're better off fighting to get the NFA and GCA repealed.

But if we let them win there will be more attacks on our right to keep and bear arms, that much is certain. So don't think of it as helping KB, think of it as helping everyone else and yourself to keep your rights. Otherwise one day they will be gone.

This is exactly what I’m talking about where does it stop regardless if I care about the issue at hand currently where does it stop?eventually it’s going to touch something I do care about!

 

[W54/XM-388]

Eventually we need to not only win back our rights all the way back to square 1, but also knock the left wing side 100 years back to keep them busy and show them what it feels like.

 

[TDFT1]

And that's why the left is winning. We keep basing things on a popularity contest whether it's to help people or how popular the product is. In the end I just want to be left alone to shoot my guns and live my life. But the left isn't going to allow that. They're making it so we are having to fight to keep our rights. We've got to stop this infighting BS and come together to keep our rights, not sit on the sidelines because we don't like a certain product or person.

We have to come together and make a stand together at some point or it’s never going to stop until we don’t have what we need to fight. This is the reason our forefathers wrote the 2nd Amendment the way they did, why they put it where they did, how they worded it. I am willing to make a stand anytime. I got everything ready before this year started expecting what we are now experiencing to happen, not exactly, but that shit would be crazy in 2020, thus far it hasn’t disappointed!

Sucks it has come to this.

 

[TDFT1]

Eventually we need to not only win back our rights all the way back to square 1, but also knock the left wing side 100 years back to keep them busy and show them what it feels like.

We need to win in November and demand the courts or Congress roll it back! That’s the only way. Trump in 2nd Term can do a lot more he wouldn’t in first term.

 

[W54/XM-388]

We have to come together and make a stand together at some point or it’s never going to stop until we don’t have what we need to fight. This is the reason our forefathers wrote the 2nd Amendment the way they did, why they put it where they did, how they worded it. I am willing to make a stand anytime. I got everything ready before this year started expecting what we are now experiencing to happen, not exactly, but that shit would be crazy in 2020, thus far it hasn’t disappointed!
Sucks it has come to this.

As I tell anyone who will listen. Our guns make us lazy, compliant and complacent.

If the "good" people were willing to work as tirelessly at every level without rest as the "evil" forces are, we would not be worried about Marxists coming for our guns.

Either get busy winning the propaganda battle for hearts and minds and get involved working tirelessly at every level of commerce, discourse, politics and government to make slow but steady progress, or understand that you will eventually find freedom lost for generations to come.

 

[TDFT1]

As I tell anyone who will listen. Our guns make us lazy, compliant and complacent.

If the "good" people were willing to work as tirelessly at every level without rest as the "evil" forces are, we would not be worried about Marxists coming for our guns.

Either get busy winning the propaganda battle for hearts and minds and get involved working tirelessly at every level of commerce, discourse, politics and government to make slow but steady progress, or understand that you will eventually find freedom lost for generations to come.

Say it again louder for those in the very back!

 

[GUNNER10]

I understand what you're saying. I don't know anything about KB. In fact never really heard of him until a few days ago. But there are enough people saying the same thing you are about him. I get it, you don't want to help him. But this isn't about him, it's about all of us. They came for the bumpstocks. I could give two shits about bumpstocks but all the supporters said just wait because if the ATF wins that battle there will be more and they were right. Now they're coming after pistol braces, I get it. They started with probably the SBA3 several months ago and now the pistols that Q sells. If they win this one as well there will porbably be more attacks to come and not just on bumpstocks and pistol braces. They'll try for other stuff.

I don't know if you like pistol braces or not. I don't really like them. But for some they are the only option because they don't live in a NFA friendly state or they don't want their name on a list or it's just not practical for them to do an SBR for some reason because of the regulations on them or they don't want to have to worry about the regulations. No matter what the reason though it's a tenious thing to do because you're skirting the law through a loophole in the law that could be closed at anytime which is what the ATF may be trying to do or they just want to give it to KB up the backside because he pissed them off. But people need to realize the position they're in when they build a pistol. That much is for sure. We're better off fighting to get the NFA and GCA repealed.

But if we let them win there will be more attacks on our right to keep and bear arms, that much is certain. So don't think of it as helping KB, think of it as helping everyone else and yourself to keep your rights. Otherwise one day they will be gone.

I agree with the with pretty much everything you just laid out, but i would offer an observation or two

I've been shooting NFA items for almost 20 years now... Damn.. it almost hurts to say that, lol. I have never been questioned about any of my SBR's while i have been in PA,MD and VA. In that time, I have never even seen an account online of the ATF shaking down an individual without a long list of other crimes as well.

We are living in this weird time where a few dozen jerk offs can literary spend weeks trying to burn down a federal court house and the federal government pretty much stood there and took it.

We are living in this weird time where a 17 year old goes to a protest, puts out a fire near a gas pump, gets jumped, defends his self and is charged with murder 1.

We are living in the weird time where local governments are local are letting rioters loot and burn down the cities and refusing to press charges.

So I really don't think it matters what the ATF lays out in regards to pistol braces, practically speaking, one could throw a regular stock, never file a form 1 and in reality nobody would ever care.

Not saying that anybody should break the law, only that nobody really cares what definition your SBR may fall into. The only time that the NFA works in controlling items is with silencers since one pretty much has to go to a dealer to get one.

 

[GUNNER10]

We need to win in November and demand the courts or Congress roll it back! That’s the only way. Trump in 2nd Term can do a lot more he wouldn’t in first term.

We have been saying this every two years for the past 2 decades. Even when we had all three branches of government, not only did we roll a giant goose egg in getting any legislation passed at the federal level, we lost bump stocks and maybe pistol braces .

I guess this time we really mean it...

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Perhaps this has already been discussed. The weapon being discussed is very good in a defensive situation. It appears to be yet one more "memo" effort to remove a person's ability to defend themselves.

Hobo

 

[5x5]

Yes. And aoc is better than pelosi because you could still mate with her if needs be. But both d-p-f (Older model Pelosi) and d-e-f (newer model AOC) are d-u-m-b. Government overreach into the auto industry is just Another groin punch from unelected, and therefore unchecked group of do nothing "policy creators" with no checks and balances. I've seen the fords re-gen and shoot flames from the tailpipe to burn out the soot. Scary garage fire hazzard. However, any system that can decide your vehicle is in control because your def quality is low, so you've got 10 miles till your engine turns off and folds its arms pouting like a 2 year old until you fix an emissions sensor, etc is just another step toward loss of individual rights and control. And wouldn't be there if it weren't for those who make their living off our backs. Deregulate, neuter, and abolish all unconstitutional 3 letter agencies, and those that identify as 5 letter ones.

Sorry that you are not capable of rilling the DEF when you change the oil or are you a CDL that is just a steering wheel holder?

 

[GTOJOSH]

I'm the guy who sees all the failures. In tank heater modules on gm. Nox sensors for fords, tank preheaters and nozzles for ram, and nissan, and the extra fun when steering wheel holders fill the tank with ethanol, or def fluid in the diesel tank, or fill nothing etc.

 

[TDFT1]

I agree with the with pretty much everything you just laid out, but i would offer an observation or two

I've been shooting NFA items for almost 20 years now... Damn.. it almost hurts to say that, lol. I have never been questioned about any of my SBR's while i have been in PA,MD and VA. In that time, I have never even seen an account online of the ATF shaking down an individual without a long list of other crimes as well.

We are living in this weird time where a few dozen jerk offs can literary spend weeks trying to burn down a federal court house and the federal government pretty much stood there and took it.

We are living in this weird time where a 17 year old goes to a protest, puts out a fire near a gas pump, gets jumped, defends his self and is charged with murder 1.

We are living in the weird time where local governments are local are letting rioters loot and burn down the cities and refusing to press charges.

So I really don't think it matters what the ATF lays out in regards to pistol braces, practically speaking, one could throw a regular stock, never file a form 1 and in reality nobody would ever care.

Not saying that anybody should break the law, only that nobody really cares what definition your SBR may fall into. The only time that the NFA works in controlling items is with silencers since one pretty much has to go to a dealer to get one.

I agree with you, my father is retired LEO, he is not into guns like I am, he wouldn’t notice most NFA Items.

I have had ignorant Novices at the range tell me Silencers are Illegal or FA. We have had Police/Sheriffs called on us while shooting at a friends Property. They just asked if everything was legal, we showed them our paperwork, and they were more interested in the guns then anything. Told us to be safe and they went and told the people who called we were % Legal and following all the laws.

In my experience FA Fire is the only thing that really gets any attention.

 

[5x5]

I'm the guy who sees all the failures. In tank heater modules on gm. Nox sensors for fords, tank preheaters and nozzles for ram, and nissan, and the extra fun when steering wheel holders fill the tank with ethanol, or def fluid in the diesel tank, or fill nothing etc.

I own a fleet of tractors running the lower 48. Have had minimal problems with DEF equipped vs the previous DPF systems. Were the old non filtered trucks simpler, yes they were but the did pollute as any driver who delivers to a port will tell you. And all the jackwaggons over fueling their BroDozers only cause more regs on all of us.

 

[GUNNER10]

I agree with you, my father is retired LEO, he is not into guns like I am, he wouldn’t notice most NFA Items.

I have had ignorant Novices at the range tell me Silencers are Illegal or FA. We have had Police/Sheriffs called on us while shooting at a friends Property. They just asked if everything was legal, we showed them our paperwork, and they were more interested in the guns then anything. Told us to be safe and they went and told the people who called we were % Legal and following all the laws.

In my experience FA Fire is the only thing that really gets any attention.

Funny you mention that, we were shooting on top of a mount in Central WV and the Sheriff showed up due to reports of FA fire, The Sheriff was cool and didnt really ask any questions. In hindsight, it was getting pretty close to hunting season so I kind of get why LE was called, It was kind of a dick move on our part. Keeping that in mind, we put a little more thought into that going forward.

 

[Jackalope]

I feel sorry for the people that paid big $$$ on Gunbroker and now may have a pistol that they may have to pay to get SBRed...myself included with my SW...and have to wait months or years if all of a sudden everyone that owns a pistol with a brace has to apply.

Excuse me now while I go .

Q is offering to pay the fees for those wanting to just file paperwork and be done with it. Kevin may not be the most well liked dude in the industry but it seems like he’s doing his best to take care of his customers.

 

[DXT_Shooter]

Q is offering to pay the fees for those wanting to just file paperwork and be done with it. Kevin may not be the most well liked dude in the industry but it seems like he’s doing his best to take care of his customers.

So I am wondering seeing I have a Sugar Weasel and they haven’t really issued a cease and desist on it I am ok for now? Who knows if they will classify it as a SBR...too early to tell I guess.

 

[Jackalope]

So I am wondering seeing I have a Sugar Weasel and they haven’t really issued a cease and desist on it I am ok for now? Who knows if they will classify it as a SBR...too early to tell I guess.

Hard to say. I know they were supposed to send samples of the Sugar Weasel and Mini Fix pistols to tech branch for “evaluation.”

 

[TDFT1]

Hard to say. I know they were supposed to send samples of the Sugar Weasel and Mini Fix pistols to tech branch for “evaluation” but, last I heard, they were resisting.

I would think that if Q refusing to might make it bit worse for everyone

Hard to say. I know they were supposed to send samples of the Sugar Weasel and Mini Fix pistols to tech branch for “evaluation” but, last I heard, they were resisting.

Poking that bear can cause issues

 

[hlee]

In the interview with Colin Noir, JB said that Q supplied the requested firearms to the branch office for testing. He said that the ATF has stopped responding, fearing a lawsuit...

 

[TDFT1]

I listened to that I’ll do so again to be certain bc I heard him say they were talking and trying to work with them to resolve whatever the issue was, the ATF stopped responding at some point like you stated citing what you stated. I was not sure they had sent them, but I hope they did, as they will just buy one of confiscate one. It feels and seems targeted!!

 

[Jackalope]

In the interview with Colin Noir, JB said that Q supplied the requested firearms to the branch office for testing. He said that the ATF has stopped responding, fearing a lawsuit...

You’re right. I rewatched the Silencer Shop video and must’ve misunderstood initially.

 

[TDFT1]

You’re right. I rewatched the Silencer Shop video and must’ve misunderstood initially.

Yeah, Thanks for checking because I wasn’t % certain! Going to watch it again today when I can pay closer attention to the details.

 

[DXT_Shooter]

Got an email from Q * UPDATE: Q Issued 60-Day Cease & Desist Suspension * and is available for viewing on their website.

https://www.liveqordie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Q-Honey-Badger-Pistol-60-Day-Follow-Up-Final.pdf

 

[esw004]

Got an email from Q * UPDATE: Q Issued 60-Day Cease & Desist Suspension * and is available for viewing on their website.

https://www.liveqordie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Q-Honey-Badger-Pistol-60-Day-Follow-Up-Final.pdf

Great, so just stalling until the election where they hope to get a change in who's in charge so they can keep up this bullshit and get a approval from new powers that be....

Not a win at all in my book.

 

[DXT_Shooter]

Great, so just stalling until the election where they hope to get a change in who's in charge so they can keep up this bullshit and get a approval from new powers that be....

Not a win at all in my book.

Looks to be the case...

 

[JLP83]

View attachment 7441446

It doesn't matter. If they enjoy their livelihoods they better do whatever they can to support.