Night Vision ENVIS

[Asm1]

Little is knowm about these in the public eye,The ENVIS was Mil only ,but ARORA is now public sales of this unit and they will add a pinacle tube for a decent price.

PVS14 have a fast pitch eye focus The ENVIS units have a slow pitch focus eye peace and work much better at longer range observation and with 3x milspec lens use,These will weapons mount with a DOUBLE moon spacer with any standard PVS14 ring mount and helmet mount with my INTERFACE adaptor,I think the envis houseing are much more durable than a PVS14 and for dual use binocular there the bomb..

ENVIS do not have gain ajustements if you need it then GO PVS14..

I do like the pvs14 for single NOD use on a helmet over single envis helmet mounted,,I would stay clear of PINACLE on anything larger than 223..
I have beat the snot out of these on 308 cailber weapons and put thousands of roundS threw a 223 with envis mounted.I have a Private TEST/range AS ALOT of you know and we test alot of kit and AMMO here and the ENVIS is a PASS.
http://www.auroratactical.com/product.php?productid=16482&cat=0&page=1&featured
Hope this Helps so you have more options to choose from.

 

[Heimdall]

Re: ENVIS

Can you go more in depth as to how to weapon mount these? what is the double moon spacer, and where can I get one? I actually might have an opportunity to pick one of these up. Im using it on a Remington 700.

 

[Travis S]

Re: ENVIS

Used one on my 10/22 using a monoloc.It worked great. scope was a leupy rifleman 2-7. It was a hand me down.

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

I build the spacers/moon retainers there $40.00,You can just mount a ring and it will work,But the spacer allows proper contact and mounts the envis straight..Use a PVS14 ring mount of your choice LARUE would be My pick..

Just pull the Rubber front guard off and there you will see a ring of steel its narrow with a gap between it and the Envis body My spacer fills the gap behind it..

The ENVIS is so underated ...Its a steel and A PVS14 leaves nothing on the table in the WOODS ON A WEAPON..

 

[softcock]

Re: ENVIS

ENVIS , how does it compare to the PVS-14 though for size and all ?
IT uses nice tube & sounds tough with a steel housing . in the link you gave it looks to be 2-AA battery not 1-A like the pvs14 . Also what is the Obj. size in comparison . Also you did state it had no manual gain but is it built with the newer autogated circuitry ?
Looks like it is geared for sales more for adaptations to camera or other things other than Helmet or possible weapons mount ?
.

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

Little bigger not much,or enough to matter.
ENVIS has a synthetic housing not steel,But thicker than a PVS14,The rear tube is held with stronger Retainer rings/threads these do not jump threads as easy as a PVS14 CAN UNDER RECOIL SHOCK LOADS.
The Rear lens has male threads this allows for a larger houseing AT THE REAR where impact normaly happens when droped.
The lens are the same objective exept the slower pitch on the focus on the ENVIS works. much better for longer observation and fine tuneing for focus .
You can upgrade to PINACLE/gated why anyone would want this on a weapons mounted ?,But dual ENVIS pinacle gated units set up for Goggle is unreal.. ...
but I have both the Night enforcer pvs14 and a ENVIS MX10160 and ENVIS Pinacle/GATED and You cant see the diffrence in the DIRT/WOODS or fields ,Never needed or wanted a gain controll on a weapons mounted NOD with 3x or 5X lens the light transmision is cut down enough even on the brightest night it was OK..


Granted I use the ENVIS more toward weapons mounting, The ENVIS/10160 is a good choice for weapons mounted NOD.We have weapons mounted them they show no problems with thousands of rounds .
I drop the weapon on one mounted and it didnt flinch The power button is the only thing I hear that may give trouble I have no issue with it as of yet...

With My Interface helmet adaptor its easy to helmet mount to and from weapon to helmet..

I am not saying replace your PVS14,But here is another option on the table that We have field tested above and beyond with no Problems..I do USE MY pvs14 in conjunction for walk in..

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS

Hi All,

Nice to see the Night Vision discussion getting into full swing.

For what it's worth, I like the ENVIS ( M703E ) but it's important to remember that they were never designed as a PVS-14 replacement.

They lack a lot of really useful features like the auto-off wiring and the common issues are with the power switch. They do have an IR, but they don't usually come with a milspec tube - basically having been designed for SERE purposes to be better than nothing for downed pilots. Because of this, they frequently have blemishes in the wrong place or too large.

Also, don't go thinking they will handle recoil better than a PVS-14... That's an issue based on other factors and both the mx-10160 and mx-11769 ( ENVIS and PVS-14 ) tubes are pretty much the same after you get past the adjustable-gain power supply on the mx-11769... Mechanically, they can both suffer from the same kind of damage.

For a while, I believe the M703E were a really good deal but word got around and their price went up. Now, for a little more, you can get a PVS-14 - still under $3000.

You can make them fit a PVS-14 style mount ( I made some adapters a while back and may make some again in the near future ) for goggles mounting but if you're buying new, I'd give some serious thought to going for the PVS-14...

The simple test? If you want a PVS-14, then don't compromise. If you understand the differences and don't need more than an ENVIS, then you can save some money. The PVS-14 will probably keep it's value better though, IMO.

Not that the ENVIS is bad - It's got a great lens ( Like a wide-aperture PVS-5 lens ) and they have some other nice features which make them more suitable for some uses. The C-mount threads in the front mean you can attach different lenses or use them for intensified astronomy. You can also adapt them easily to different cameras with a suitable relay lens or afocal setup.

Anyway, here's a link to the "PVS-14" style mount bracket I made up - it puts the mount location in the same place as it would be with a PVS-14, allowing for a similar optical axis when mounted.

http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=projects&story=envis

This also explains the mounting issues in a straight-forward manner that is easy to understand.

Regards
David

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

I have PVS14 Night enforcer and ENVIS same time side by side. I changed the PVS14 body because the threads have let go and allowed the tube to move back and forth IN The BODY and it is not as strong as the ENVIS body/threads I can take deatil pics and prove this point.
ENVIS has a stronger thread and less swell to the body in the retainer ring eria.
more thread is avalable where the PVS14 threads are used to the last one almost not catching the retainer ring all the way.
ENVIS is now under ARORA tactical.

The Envis Front slow pitch focus side by side in the field is hands down the choice of anyone we hand it to over the pvs14 AT longer range,Its easier to focus in with a 3X/5X lens for target ID where the 14 lens is so finiky its out of ajustment with 1/10 rotation The envis would need half rotation to be that far out.This makes the ENVIS alone a better weapons mount with 3x/5x LENS If you carry the weapon mounted and focus for 150 yards your coverd and ready to fire on target NOW. PVS14 after carry in field slung weapon loose you will more likley than not need to ajust/focus to even get on target to fire and have to find the GAIN nob and switch is more kit to deal with ..KISS rule..

..If I understand you correct the 10160 tube is no more recoil resitant than a PINACLE AUTOGATED PVS14 tube ?

We have broken more than One PVS14 and yet to loose an ENVIS under the same conditions.

I would say if you want ENVIS easier ability to switch on and off no gain to look for when its time to shoot and better front lens and houseing and srtonger weapons mount ability Dont settle for less and get one..

Understand I am useing the envis for 80% weapons mount in the Dirt Not Neonville..
We use PVS14 for head mount and some light duty weapons mount..The pvs14 IS THE BETTER CHOICE FOR CQB and Head mount..

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
..If I understand you correct the 10160 tube is no more recoil resitant than a PINACLE AUTOGATED PVS14 tube ?

We have broken more than One PVS14 and yet to loose an ENVIS under the same conditions.
</div></div>

Hi Asm1,

I didn't say Pinnacle, so I better make it clear before it gives people the wrong idea.

The difference between a mx10160 and mx11769 is the power supply - the mx11769 has a gain control. That is all. You can get equivalent mx10160's for every mx11769.

Have a look at this chart: http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=discussions&story=omni

Look at the F9800 ( mx10160 ) and F9815 ( mx11769 ) - you will see similar specifications for similar models.

Now, as to recoil damage. This is ENTIRELY based on the tube and is relative to the spacing between the MCP ( Microchannel Plate ) and PC ( Photocathode ).

The further away these are from each other, the less likely they are to collide under recoil.

Now, have a look at the Omni specifications on the same link I listed. Notice that older tubes ( eg, Omni IV and V ) have larger halo's? The halo size is *directly* proportional to the MCP/PC spacing.

So, smaller halo = more likely to suffer recoil damage, Larger halo = less likely to suffer damage. At halo>1.25mm, the tube is usually considered weapons grade.

So, if the tubes in your ENVIS handle recoil better, then the simple explanation is that they are probably an older technology and are most likely no thin film.

It also sounds like you might have some thread damage in your PVS-14 - It might be repairable... The standard retaining ring should be more than suitable for normal recoil levels though.

As for rifle mounting? I'd still choose a physical switch over an electrical one ( I'm busy modifying an ENVIS with a Grayhill rotary switch at the moment as a project ) but I guess it's a personal preference. The difficulty with mounting an ENVIS however is that they don't have the same optical axis relative to the mount point.

I designed a bracket to address this shortcoming and it sounds like you have also - I'd really love to see what you've come up with - it sounds like you've made quite an improvement to the basic design -

Are you able to show any pictures?

Anyway, for rifle or headmount?, I'd probably choose a PVS-14 but for general hand-held use and infrequent use? An ENVIS offers great value and has excellent optics

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS


A simple straight mod - I like it

So you remove the rubber surround and just mount to the lens carrier by the look of it... Very simple, very effective

Did you cut the lanyard or just tie it up to the side? It looks like you've replaced it with a short section of cord?

Thankyou for the photo - quite a good solution to the alignment issues and still allows switching between head and rifle.

Regards
David

 

[hrt4me]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj7hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have a look at this chart: http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=discussions&story=omni</div></div>

David, thanks for posting that comprehensive and informative chart.

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

Thanks..

Yes thats what I did,There is a space that needs 2 moon spacers to make a circle for proper contact,But its not a must it can bottom out on the housing and align from its squar shoulder.
Yes its a Short string to teather the cap on and velcrove to secure out of the way.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj7hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A simple straight mod - I like it

So you remove the rubber surround and just mount to the lens carrier by the look of it... Very simple, very effective

Did you cut the lanyard or just tie it up to the side? It looks like you've replaced it with a short section of cord?

Thankyou for the photo - quite a good solution to the alignment issues and still allows switching between head and rifle.

Regards
David




</div></div>

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

Yea that Link Is great ! If there was just one sticky here this should be it.

Thanks !

 

[j-huskey]

Re: ENVIS

OK Frankie, Doorkicker,

Tell us the difference between the 6015's and PVS-14's, and why does the 6015 model cost more than an equivalent 14.

 

[christian77]

Re: ENVIS

Good question, but I can't honestly answer...I am an end-user myself...not a developer, designer, manufacturer or distributor like some of these guys.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: ENVIS

My guy I called said the 14 had a mil spec tube and the 6015 had a comp spec tube, and the cost difference was so the two did not compete against each other in the market, and that they were basically equal. The advertisements hint that the 6015 is a brighter and clearer unit, and the last thing said was about the manual gain control on the 14, might not be on the 6015.

We have several 6015's at work and we use them just like 14's and so far none broken when used as weapons sights. I've got a Gen3P 6015 and started wondering if I'd made a real high dollar mistake since Frankie said the pinnacle was weaker for bigger boomers, but I have the PVS 22 for them.

So I asked. I'm pretty much an end user too.

 

[christian77]

Re: ENVIS

I wasn't even aware that Pinnacle tubes were susceptible to failure vs. non-P tubes pertaining to shock from calibers larger than 5.56...pretty interesting and good to know. My PVS14s are non-P.

I'd like to learn more about what grades of image intensifier tubes ITT/Litton offer and what is the best offerings and why.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: ENVIS

There's a really good link (can't find it this AM on this slow laptop and aircard) in these topics on the tubes that is pretty much on what I have been told and shown by them who are supposed to know.

The last topic on this group on buying a 14 also tells that the pinnacle tube is not up to hard recoil like Frankie (ASM1) said. This is a good sub-topic.

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't even aware that Pinnacle tubes were susceptible to failure vs. non-P tubes pertaining to shock from calibers larger than 5.56...pretty interesting and good to know. My PVS14s are non-P.

I'd like to learn more about what grades of image intensifier tubes ITT/Litton offer and what is the best offerings and why.

</div></div>

It's all in that chart I linked to earlier...

The F9815's are PVS-14 type tubes. The older L3 tubes are listed but they do have new grades now at L3 - I haven't added them in yet due to a lack of other published data.

Failure is caused by the MCP ( Microchannel Plate ) physically flexing enough to impact the photocathode under heavy shock. They are on the order of a few tenths of a millimeter apart so it doesn't take much.

The halo size is a good indication as to how far apart the two are and the smaller the halo, the closer the distance.

Thus, the recommendation is not to use tubes with a halo of less than 1.25mm for weapons use - though in practice many people got away with much less.

In recent times however there have been reports of damaged tubes that were larger than this and only used on .223 ( ask Vic or Clasky from TNVC for more about this )

There are two pinnacles that do meet this requirement. The WG and DTG2 both have larger MCP to PC spacing and are suitable for weapons use.

Many older tubes were further apart also and so older tubes may be OK, but let the halo be the guide. If it looks like a small halo, don't mount it on a rifle.

David.

 

[christian77]

Re: ENVIS

I read your chart David, great information on there. I should've prefaced my post by saying I wasn't aware of Pinnacle tubes susceptibility to shock damage until this NV Sub-Forum was created

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

HI Mr Husky..
The 6015 has no gain control other than that I cant find any diffrence,lens are the same even the body is the same the battery/control compartment is where the diffrence looks to be + the Gain feature on the TUBE in a 14,I did see some Info on a PVS14 (D) that was rated up to .50 CAL !


CJ7hawk
You do Know your in TOYOTA country right

?

like to KNOW how the same tubes holds up in a raptor on a 50 ? Or a PVS22 and such UNS units is it this plate space with Pinacle weapons grade ,If its spaceing on the plates that lets it handle larger weapons then what are we giveing up for the durability ?

How much recoil can a new model F9800/10160 handle ?
There always a catch..

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: ENVIS

There have been NO issues ever reported on our end with any of OSTI's PVS-22/27's with Mil-Spec AG Pinnacles installed. Their Patented Shock Mitigation System works that well. Heck with the 50bmg's, that recoil is a slow recoil spike per say, it the 300's and 338's that are the real tube killers.

Indeed we have seen the Omni 6/7 Pinnacle units have the most issues with recoil. Higher HALO is always the norm for better recoil mitigation. As for the Raptors, no Pinnacle AG units are installed in these systems for this reason for many years. Hope this helps.

Vic

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
CJ7hawk
You do Know your in TOYOTA country right

?
</div></div>

LoL! I never knew that ad existed... I have a CJ7... No plastic for me

I even have the original Jeep factory diesel model as the name suggests. It's a bit of a slug but there's some truth to that advert... The day I bought my farm it had to swim through mud to get me there.

Vic - Thanks for that. Yes, you're right - it's not the caliber, it's the shock from highest acceleration. This is why muzzle breaks and recoil eliminators have negligible effect on whether a tube will be damaged or not.

David

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

Ok let me make sure I got this and I didnt read this wrong CJ7hawk and TNVC..

A 50BMG (machine Gun) WILL/CAN do less damage than a 300WM or 338L sniper rifle to a NOD like we are talking about..?

 

[softcock]

Re: ENVIS

Hey Vic, on this same subject of pinnacle / autogat and recoil .
The Raptors have not this for this reason for the use on high recoil . So what about the Morovision with the 760/740 body styles, with them offering in pinnacle / autogat ?
Any feedback on them not holding-up, Would you limit them to .223 or .308 as the limit on recoil ? in the pinnacle model ?
.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok let me make sure I got this and I didnt read this wrong CJ7hawk and TNVC..

A 50BMG (machine Gun) WILL/CAN do less damage than a 300WM or 338L sniper rifle to a NOD like we are talking about..?

</div></div>

Yep of course. The 50bmg is a "slower" recoil shock than those of a 300/338.

When we were designing our initial Scope Accessory Ring (SAR) we learned alot from the Leupold folks when they tested our SAR and we watched the recoil power curves. 300's/338's have a short VERY high shock curve, where the 50's have a longer duration recoil per say. These short HIGH recoil spikes is the real killer on optics.

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Vic, on this same subject of pinnacle / autogat and recoil .
The Raptors have not this for this reason for the use on high recoil . So what about the Morovision with the 760/740 body styles, with them offering in pinnacle / autogat ?
Any feedback on them not holding-up, Would you limit them to .223 or .308 as the limit on recoil ? in the pinnacle model ?
. </div></div>

Several years ago with Omni IV, we found no apparent recoil issues. With the introduction to the Omni VI/VII line of Pinnalce AG units, we have seen black spotted tubes from .308 and higher units. One even on a .223.

As CJ7 mentioned we now select Pinnacle tubes with higher HALO numbers to mitigate any recoil related issues with our D760/D740 scopes and so does Moro. I also limit them to .308 and below.

With the Omni VIII just about out there, "we are told" anyway that we should see some much improved recoil resistance.

Vic

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

Thanks for the Info Vic..I would have thought a .50 machine Gun running an AMMO can on AUTO fire would kill a tube faster than a magnums single shooter..


Another question, I know we have positive from the best pinnacle/gated,But What are we giveing up for it vs the best Non gated/pinnacle ?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the Info Vic..I would have thought a .50 machine Gun running an AMMO can on AUTO fire would kill a tube faster than a magnums single shooter..
</div></div>

Do you want to have a guess at the worst rifle in the world for destroying scopes? Unless you've owned one and gone through a swag of scopes (like I have) you might not otherwise believe it.

And I've seen them destroy an optical scope with a single shot. In fact, I destroyed a brand new Tasco myself when I was a kid... First day I had it.

Anyway, there are Pinnacles that you can use. As Vic says, they use them. The autogating does, BTW, significantly increase the chances of getting damage, especially if it causes constructive interference with the recoil peak.

Glad to hear they are recognizing the issue with Omni VIII Vic... The specs are still restricted at the moment though

David

 

[j-huskey]

Re: ENVIS

Air rifle...

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhuskey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yea thats it with spring piston I think ?..


Vic could have saved alot of Leupolds G force machine time and bought a Air Rifle to test his mount RINGS ..

 

[Tgerberg]

Re: ENVIS

Do you still make these double moon rings for mounting a Envis M703E? If so sign me up. How can I go about getting some? I saw how you mounted your in a pic in the forums - NICE. Any help would be great

Thanks

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

I Had A Friend Order A Envis From Arora Tactical For Here Husband For Xmas,it Had A Bad Switch From The Start,they Sent It Back To Arora Tactical And It Was Fixed In 3 Days And Back In Hand,arora Was Very Apologetic And Wanted Them To Know It Was Covered Within The 2 Years Warranty..

Shit Happens,but Its How Its Resolved That Matters !
Arora +1
Btw Nice Clear Unit,right On The Heels Of My Pvs14 Night Enforcer..

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: ENVIS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I Had A Friend Order A Envis From Arora Tactical For Here Husband For Xmas,it Had A Bad Switch From The Start,they Sent It Back To Arora Tactical And It Was Fixed In 3 Days And Back In Hand,arora Was Very Apologetic And Wanted Them To Know It Was Covered Within The 2 Years Warranty..
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Shit Happens,but Its How Its Resolved That Matters !</span>
Arora +1
Btw Nice Clear Unit,right On The Heels Of My Pvs14 Night Enforcer.. </div></div>

Well said and +1 for Aurora. Good company with good professionals running the place!

 

[MillSpec]

Re: ENVIS

Bad news on the ENVIS front. Seen 2 go down now and both are just salvage now. voltage issues and bad connections along with battery cap issues and switch problems.

Stick with the PVS14 even a 2nd hand one is better than the ENVIS IMO

 

[Asm1]

Re: ENVIS

WOW,THAT BLOWS,,,But I could use extra parts,Please let me know how to contact the owners so I can offer some cash for them....<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bad news on the ENVIS front. Seen 2 go down now and both are just salvage now. voltage issues and bad connections along with battery cap issues and switch problems.

Stick with the PVS14 even a 2nd hand one is better than the ENVIS IMO
</div></div>

 

[gilkman]

Re: ENVIS

Hey guys i just found this thread. I have an Envis 703E. I am interested in acquiring a J-mount adapter...David - you making/selling them yet? I could also try to get one fabbed here in Southern California if you can share your design.

I'll also be ordering some spacers for weapon mounting using a PVS-14 Ring.

 

[gilkman]

Envis on a Larue Tactical PVS-14 Mount

hey all I finally got my Envis all mounted up behind my Eotech using an LT133 Mounted ontop of an LT110 No special hardware required (spacers etc). It gives me a lower-third cowitness and I have room for the rear Magpul BUIS.

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