Equipment Trends

[Skeptic1]

I was a member of the Hide for a number of years from the early 2000s until around 2012 when my career and some health issues took me out of shooting and reloading for some years.
I am finally getting my old gear out and getting back into the game. I shot a rifle match this past weekend and did surprisingly well even with my old and dated equipment.

That being said......
As I'm getting back on the hide, reregistering as a private and having the "feel" of a newbie, when I had hundreds of post, purchases and sells, and even a bit of rank before the "change".
I can't help but notice how most of my old trusty and reliable equipment which at the time was high end and expensive kit, now seems to me to have been deemed trash at the stroke of a computer key (or iphone screen) by people that were just coming on the scene about the time I had to get out.

Anyone else ever feel like this?

I do realize that time changes things and I am playing catch up.

 

[FishDr]

Ha … I feel like exactly that at the beginning of every year. Especially when I try to “uprade” my gear by purchasing less expensive cast-offs by top shooters from the “end of the season”.

I know, I know … I’ll go be poor somewhere else.
@Skeptic1, welcome back !

 

[Nik H]

Hard not to feel like that when you see new gadgets, scopes and rifles on a regular basis. I joined here about 6 years ago and have seen the trends go up and down. I tend to buy what I like and not look back or ahead. Too easy to constantly burn money in this sport.

I have built my equipment up over the last 6 years and have no regrets. You just need to buy smart and not be taken in by the hype.

 

[RTH1800]

Welcome back.
You are correct in your diagnosis of todays market trends. The rate of change has escalated. Todays latest and greatest scope or action is tomorrows junk. It is still just as good as it ever was but not the stuff the cool kids want.
Example, Surgeon actions are now junk. Once the greatest thing going. They were sold and the company let CS go downhill so not they are deemed worthless.
It is a buyers market in the near new or second hand market.
The positive side is that the increased popularity of LR shooting has created competition among venders, improved products and lower prices at times. LRI has turned the custom builders arena upside down with it's quick turn around of just a few days on barrels etc.

 

[CShooter92]

Example, Surgeon actions are now junk. Once the greatest thing going. They were sold and the company let CS go downhill so not they are deemed worthless.

Haha that all happened in maybe the last 2 years, let alone 5 or 10. I built my first custom rifle 2 years ago and the options were essentially Surgeon, Stiller or Defiance. I went Surgeon, and honestly... It has been an amazing action.

You are very right that it leads to a buyer's market with all the equipment turnover year after year. I love being able to buy those used items for a good discount when they are still like new and the original owner just decided to try something else.

 

[pmclaine]

Old school still shoots. Technology has its benefits but many use it as a crutch.......

 

[Steel head]

AI and Sako aren’t the only game in town and there’s a ton of custom actions now.

Some really good smiths now without wait time measured in month or years.

A ton of stock/chassis options as well.
S-B lost it’s GO TO glory a while ago as well.

Shooting bags and bipods are insane now.
WAY different than when I started.

Curiously I bought a Bipod of a bit older design recently yet it still has a stellar reputation and it should be here today.

In the end one thing withstood the ravages of time, advancement and competition.

 

[RTH1800]

Haha that all happened in maybe the last 2 years, let alone 5 or 10. I built my first custom rifle 2 years ago and the options were essentially Surgeon, Stiller or Defiance. I went Surgeon, and honestly... It has been an amazing action.

You are very right that it leads to a buyer's market with all the equipment turnover year after year. I love being able to buy those used items for a good discount when they are still like new and the original owner just decided to try something else.

Agree. I really like the Surgeon action and have several. They got so much right the first time and were way ahead of the field for several years.

 

[Steel head]

Agree. I really like the Surgeon action and have several. They got so much right the first time and were way ahead of the field for several years.

Surgeon who???
Lol.

I’ll admit I still dream of getting a badger action in a KMW stock but a Black bear would do and soon Hoplite is a option and already in a KMW.

 

[A&8's]

I think there are a couple things going on, or at least from what I've seen.

There are so many more involved in this 'sport.' With more, also comes more ideas and thoughts on how items can be 'better' for certain applications. Many of those migrate from the 'sport' to practical hunting/sniping uses.

Also, the price and advancements of computer aided equipment (CNC) has come down drastically. Back in the day, a manual lathe, mill and files in the hands of a skilled gunsmith was all we had. Nowadays, CNC machine turning out high quality, close tolerance parts are on every 3rd street corner and garage. Personally, I'm doing good to log on to my Sniper's Hide account. At the same time there are 10 year old writing codes for CNC machines that rival what NASA used to require the smartest people in the world to write. What takes me hours to do, a CNC machine does in minutes. Just youtube any CNC milling operation. They're spinning end mills at hyper-sonic speeds and flooding them with gallons of coolant while cutting not thousandths at a pass, but inches per. Just look at the tolerances of actions. They are so consistent that pre-fit barrels are the norm. Don't get me wrong, there is still need for qualified hands. But, by the numbers, there are more 'youtube gunsmiths' out there than ever before. And they're making gun shoot well. At least well enough for this 'game' of smacking steel.

Everyday, I feel more and more like my Father and Grandfather.

 

[atomic41]

I like to find the point of diminishing return in whatever I'm doing, then live in that happy spot. IDGAF about what the latest cool kid gear is as it's normally way past the PODR. Case in point, the new bipods that are coming out that will retail around $1K. ? Good for them and happy for everyone that buys it, but it will not make me that much of a better shooter so it's not for me. Way past the PODR. On the other end, the Bravo chassis is my sweet spot. I've owned more expensive but did not increase my shooting capabilities, the Bravo is an example of the sweet spot.

This a great time to be in any sport really, the access to high quality gear at competitive prices has never been better. If you want to roll with bling, go nuts! I'll live in the sweet spot of quality gear that helps me perform but not go over. point of diminishing return

 

[northern50]

I like to find the point of diminishing return in whatever I'm doing, then live in that happy spot. IDGAF about what the latest cool kid gear is as it's normally way past the PODR. Case in point, the new bipods that are coming out that will retail around $1K. ? Good for them and happy for everyone that buys it, but it will not make me that much of a better shooter so it's not for me. Way past the PODR. On the other end, the Bravo chassis is my sweet spot. I've owned more expensive but did not increase my shooting capabilities, the Bravo is an example of the sweet spot.

This a great time to be in any sport really, the access to high quality gear at competitive prices has never been better. If you want to roll with bling, go nuts! I'll live in the sweet spot of quality gear that helps me perform but not go over. point of diminishing return

Ding ding ding! That’s how I feel about it. I’ve built what I want/need. Now it’s nice to be able to use and enjoy it. Swap a barrel once and a while and the rifle always feels like a favorite out of boots. Just works.

 

[Skeptic1]

I'm not talking about 50 year old equipment being deemed substandard. I'm talking about 15, 10, and even 5 year old kit being poor mouthed. CNC was the word of the day back then as well.
A dozen rifle calibers have come and gone in a decade. Some stuck.
What I'm saying is I'm seeing trends, or more like fads take over markets.
It's literally like faded blue Jean's, skinny Jean's, bell bottoms and halter tops.

But....... I degress

 

[Steel head]

I'm not talking about 50 year old equipment being deemed substandard. I'm talking about 15, 10, and even 5 year old kit being poor mouthed. CNC was the word of the day back then as well.
A dozen rifle calibers have come and gone in a decade. Some stuck.
What I'm saying is I'm seeing trends, or more like fads take over markets.
It's literally like faded blue Jean's, skinny Jean's, bell bottoms and halter tops.

But....... I degress

like the gamer guns?
Certainly a driving force for a lot of current design.

 

[IronmanDaremo]

Coming from years in the world of cycling (both racing and working in shops), I can equate this sport to that one in that respect. Equipment from less than 5 years ago is "outdated" and inefficient, if you listen to the industry. It's all about reducing wattage loss and aero efficiency. And you know, 5 - 10 year old equipment isn't any of that!

But the reality is, in cycling, it is more about the engine (the rider) than anything else. Just like in this sport ..... it is more about the shooter. Good equipment is still good equipment, even if it may not have all the bells and whistles. And in two years, everything awesome now will be old news and outdated!

 

[ScottDWallace]

I feel like we are in the middle of a renaissance period for precision shooting. 10yrs ago, 1k yards was the glass ceiling on precision rifle. This past Saturday and every Saturday before that, thousands of enthusiasts were making hits past 1k on the clock, repeatedly. I have talked a new shooter into hits at 1k on the clock!

Bullet mfg's realized there is now a market for guys that burn 100rds every weekend, vs. hunters that burn 100rds every 5yrs (or more). The growth of the sport/hobby brought fresh eyes to ask new questions. Don't just do things this way because that's the way it's always been done, or because "SnIpErS dO iT....". The decline in CNC machine pricing has made a huge difference in advancing equipment in both features and availability.

I, personally, am excited to see where we will be in 5yrs. A lot of the stuff coming out now will come and go. But the really innovative and useful kit will stick. To the OP, your gear was bleeding edge at the time. The bar was raised, thanks to your gear, and equipment has evolved to meet and surpass the new accuracy demands. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I can't help but wonder if the regular troops looked at Carlos Hatchcock's M70 with Unertl scope, bipod, and loop sling, and thought "Fucking gamer".

 

[Skeptic1]

No, I gotcha...... so riddle me this.
Berger, design me a 7.62 pill that I can send from the business end of my .308 to make consistent hits at a mile.
I'm feverishly wanting to build a 260 but when I look at velocities and weight, I dont see why a 30 cal leaving the end of a 308 can't make the trip.

Unless this "modern bullit" rhetoric I keep hearing is BS, I believe it can be achieved.

 

[PBWalsh]

@Skeptic1

Might wanna try some Warner Tool Flatlines. Their .30 caliber 155 (or higher) might work for you. Based on the reading and data on the WTCs, you probably need to single feed them (or use a LA), use a 28”+ barrel, possibly go with a tight bore (.298/.299), and be at a higher elevation.

Check out this thread:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/back-to-mt-with-the-308-198gr-for-2000yds-elr.6961821/

It may just be possible with current tech if you’re willing to spend a bit extra cash per bullet.

 

[AIAW]

Some people like to make small changes seem like a complete overhaul on some items, which in turn drives the market. This is mostly centered around ergonomics generally. (I.E.: A 1999 AW will shoot just as good as a 2018 AXSA). Has the core functionality changed? Not really. A lot has changed in the custom R700 footprint - a lot!

Optics on the other hand, pretty big changes there since the early 2000's - but really has the functionality changed? Not really. Electronics of course have come a long way. LRF's, ballistic calculators, thermal, NV, MIL-only specifics, aerospace, etc.

Once of the biggest areas of improvement are with data collection. You have much more accurate BC's from the manufacturers through testing equipment technology (Doppler Radar, LIDAR, etc.), along with modern CAD software helping in the designs. As with most things, the Internet is a perfect delivery medium for all of this.

Welcome to 2019, where designing a new shooting bag or slapping MLOK on something is considered magical innovation. I say this, but there are people out there truly innovating still, many are members here.

Some of us do our best to prevent this place from becoming ARFCOM.

 

[Steel head]

No, I gotcha...... so riddle me this.
Berger, design me a 7.62 pill that I can send from the business end of my .308 to make consistent hits at a mile.
I'm feverishly wanting to build a 260 but when I look at velocities and weight, I dont see why a 30 cal leaving the end of a 308 can't make the trip.

Unless this "modern bullit" rhetoric I keep hearing is BS, I believe it can be achieved.

cheap 140/147 eldm’s do really well at a mile in a 260.
I’ve lobbed a few 160-170 class 30 cal bullets at 308 speeds at a mile.
Not nearly as consistent as the 260.

A long 308 barrel with some flatlines would be interesting but those bullets aren’t cheap. You could shoot a 7mm cheaper with better results.

 

[steve123]

No, I gotcha...... so riddle me this.
Berger, design me a 7.62 pill that I can send from the business end of my .308 to make consistent hits at a mile.
I'm feverishly wanting to build a 260 but when I look at velocities and weight, I dont see why a 30 cal leaving the end of a 308 can't make the trip.

Unless this "modern bullit" rhetoric I keep hearing is BS, I believe it can be achieved.

The common mistake people make is trying to shoehorn something that was never intended for a certain purpose.

Want to shoot ELR then use a cartridge suitable for that purpose.

Otherwise - with your current rifle, buy a ton of heavy high BC 308 cal bullets and brass, load hot to reach the next node, getting only 1-2 cycles on that brass, and lob two or more the amount of bullets to make an occasional hit, that you would with some cartridge that has some balls, while at the same time substantially reducing barrel life.

C'mon man??!!

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Every year there is /are metric shit-tonnes of useless crap hoisted upon the gun buying american public, you see it at shot and other conventions across the nation........now it is the soup of the day to have a electro optic on your carry piece.... an smart phone to shoot long and ballistic solutions in your optic......

 

[Steel head]

Every year there is /are metric shit-tonnes of useless crap hoisted upon the gun buying american public, you see it at shot and other conventions across the nation........now it is the soup of the day to have a electro optic on your carry piece.... an smart phone to shoot long and ballistic solutions in your optic......

You see it a lot in the fly fishing world.
the new silver bullet!

 

[Diver160651]

Old school still shoots. Technology has its benefits but many use it as a crutch.......

Pm, is that how you use Casey's tool?

 

[pmclaine]

Pm, is that how you use Casey's tool?

I've never touched @Kasey 's tool. What are you getting at?

Sheesh, guys measures a group and gets all kinds of weird grief.

In first example........Center of one round to center of furthest round reads 1.25.

Divide that by two because it's radius not diameter.

Answer = .625 MOA

 

[TheGerman]

Your post is all blurry as I sit here trying to read it wearing my ANVIS 9.

 

[pmclaine]

Your post is all blurry as I sit here trying to read it wearing my ANVIS 9.

Looks fine with my 11s.


Poors.........tsk, tsk.

 

[Diver160651]

I've never touched @Kasey 's tool. What are you getting at?

Sheesh, guys measures a group and gets all kinds of weird grief.

In first example........Center of one round to center of furthest round reads 1.25.

Divide that by two because it's radius not diameter.

Answer = .625 MOA

LOL -- We used them on our one shot Accu-Shot Ace Challenge as a bonus stage at the end of one of our matches .. Worked out well as the stage was next to the prize table.. The winner at our match got a Atlas Bipod thanks to @Kasey and his team.

FYI Siri helped me on my first post.