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Night Vision Eurooptic refurbed pvs30 vs. TNVC new PVS30

LSUbeatUby40

LSUbeatUby40

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This is coming from ignorance which is why I am asking. How big of a difference in clarity and brightness is there for one to be double the other?

I'm going to be looking at getting one, but I have never seen a pic through one of the TNVC units. The EO refurbed ones look pretty good for a 5K unit. I'm also interested in the WP version which I know the EO refurbed units are all green, but I don't want to pay double just because one is new and a different color.

I was cool with paying an extra 1k for the pvs14s to get WP over the green. I just want to know if there is any reason the TNVC ones are double the price aside from being new.

Thanks,
Kyle
 
Get the refurbished one. Unless you go WP there will be no discernible difference, and even WP is mostly a preference thing.

The reason it’s half price is the military drove it off the lot and took the initial resale price hit.
 
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My understanding is that most or all of the refurbished pvs30s for sale started life as pvs26s and we're upgraded to 30s. They have the double battery housings vs the newer single and the new production pvs30 have a different, better lense system internally than the refurbished units. I may be wrong but I think I've heard/read that from a few sources.

I doubt that it's worth the cost for most at double the price.
 
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How much does FOM matter? The only one I’ve tried had an FOM of 1660 or so. Wondering if 2000+ makes a difference.
 
aaa, ummm, the new TNVC with WP is going to cost $14K and the refurb is $4.5K if that. Unless you are using this like 100 nights a year, there isnt much of a value proposition in the new WP.
 
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They need supplemental IR on dark nights but most clip-on’s do, with the exception of the Simrad.
 
I bought a refurb awhile back and while I’ve never compared it to other units I’ve never once wondered what double or triple the price would get me. Low 1700s is the FOM on mine and the clarity under the right conditions has been mind blowing.
 
I have (briefly) used a couple other very nice, brand new units. Even the WP ones are truthfully only a little better in very dark conditions, not 3x nicer. A few other types of clipons are a bit smaller, or a bit lighter, or have better light gathering. And things like single battery is good if you are going to change them silently in the dark so the bad guys don't hear you. But... do you do that?

A few are also better designed; the focus ring is far away and stiff on the 30, but not worth $5-10,000 to get better. There are also worse designs; I like the single, locking knob for power/gain.

I am pretty happy with my refurb 30. For that form factor, it's a hell of a deal still.
 
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The cost/benefit ratio of a refurb vs. a new one would be wildly lopsided in favor of buying the refurb. The refurbs I had were very nice, no way would I consider buying a new 30 when good condition refurbs are available w/ a one year warranty. Having an unlimited budget would not change my decision either, value is an important consideration. An illuminator is indeed necessary in super dark conditions, though, which is why I moved on to SIMRADs.
 
Or you could save even more money and do me a solid by buying my Pvs30. I’ll make you a killer deal
 
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Terry,

I’m well aware that you know a whole lot more about these than I do.

That said, I do understand economics, and that is exactly why these are so cheap. Most are in unissued or very good condition. The market has never seen clip-on prices even near this low for a similar product. All of this sudden the military trades out hundreds (thousands?) of these and at exactly the same moment the market has 5000 dollar clip-ons and full priced models are almost impossible to sell. That’s not a coincidence.
 
Last edited:
If I had to guess, I'd say it's a byproduct of deescalating and drawing down from 2 major wars. But that's a guess.
 
NET65 said:
If I had to guess, I'd say it's a byproduct of deescalating and drawing down from 2 major wars. But that's a guess.
Click to expand...

The military keeps everything. The only reason these escaped is that they traded them back to KAC for new models that have the better battery housing. I can’t speak to other differences.
 
cake5150 said:
Not arguing, but I have to wonder what your theory is on why the refurbished 30s are at their current price point.
Click to expand...

Make no mistake, I think the refurbished PVS-26s are outstanding value for the price point. That was not in question.
For most users, it's a no brainer.

However, quotes like the one from #Evolution 9 are not accurate.
The units are not simply used PVS-30s that the military bought and then traded in. They are PVS-26s that are refurbished. Many think that those units being marketed under the "30" moniker is misleading.

The PVS-30s have a different center housing that only accepts a single battery. It is a completely different casting. The 30's battery station can run a single AA or a DL123 simply by reversing the screw on cap.

The power consumption of the PVS-30 is far less than the older 26s. You can install a AA that seemed depleted in another piece of equipment and still run the 30 for 2 or 3 hours. Could be a big deal even for pig hunters if in cold weather. Def a big deal if on a call out for a few hours in real cold.

The glass on the front of the PVS-30 is a totally different generation than the older 26s as well.

The FOM numbers are the rating that the I.I. tubes are graded at without regard to the optics in front that feed them the images as efficiently as possible. If a refurbed PVS-26 and new PVS-30 happened to have equal FOM rated I.I.tubes, the 30 would provide a better image due to the higher performance glass/coatings.

The refurbed units are rebuilt but they do not rebuild them with PVS-30 parts. I assure you that if they were doing that, you would not see the prices they are being sold at plus they (KAC) would be poisoning their own well for new PVS-30 sales.

I give you this, I believe that you have to be on them for a while and be under really challenging environmental and target contrast conditions to distinguish the image difference between a 1500'ish FOM and a 2000 FOM. The refurbed 26s are very , very good for the money. I am trying to budget one myself as an additional loaner unit for the 1 Mil Right classes.

So ...... my opinion ( which is just like assholes) is that the rebuilt 26s are very, very good units for the money.

and

No matter how you slice it, they are not 30s.

My PVS-30 has a W.P. tube from Photonis with a FOM over 2000. I can consistently see details and targets better than most other units being brought to our classes where we shoot 2 or 3 nights of night fire. I don't think the performance is the tube alone.

./
 
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Terry Cross said:
Make no mistake, I think the refurbished PVS-26s are outstanding value for the price point. That was not in question.
For most users, it's a no brainer.

However, quotes like the one from #Evolution 9 are not accurate.
The units are not simply used PVS-30s that the military bought and then traded in. They are PVS-26s that are refurbished. Many think that those units being marketed under the "30" moniker is misleading.

The PVS-30s have a different center housing that only accepts a single battery. It is a completely different casting. The 30's battery station can run a single AA or a DL123 simply by reversing the screw on cap.

The power consumption of the PVS-30 is far less than the older 26s. You can install a AA that seemed depleted in another piece of equipment and still run the 30 for 2 or 3 hours. Could be a big deal even for pig hunters if in cold weather. Def a big deal if on a call out for a few hours in real cold.

The glass on the front of the PVS-30 is a totally different generation than the older 26s as well.

The FOM numbers are the rating that the I.I. tubes are graded at without regard to the optics in front that feed them the images as efficiently as possible. If a refurbed PVS-26 and new PVS-30 happened to have equal FOM rated I.I.tubes, the 30 would provide a better image due to the higher performance glass/coatings.

The refurbed units are rebuilt but they do not rebuild them with PVS-30 parts. I assure you that if they were doing that, you would not see the prices they are being sold at plus they (KAC) would be poisoning their own well for new PVS-30 sales.

I give you this, I believe that you have to be on them for a while and be under really challenging environmental and target contrast conditions to distinguish the image difference between a 1500'ish FOM and a 2000 FOM. The refurbed 26s are very , very good for the money. I am trying to budget one myself as an additional loaner unit for the 1 Mil Right classes.

So ...... my opinion ( which is just like assholes) is that the rebuilt 26s are very, very good units for the money.

and

No matter how you slice it, they are not 30s.

My PVS-30 has a W.P. tube from Photonis with a FOM over 2000. I can consistently see details and targets better than most other units being brought to our classes where we shoot 2 or 3 nights of night fire. I don't think the performance is the tube alone.

./
Click to expand...
This is exactly what info I was looking for with the OP. Thanks
 
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So by Terry’s own words these are functionally almost identical and visually almost identical and we’re supposed to believe that they are 6000 dollars cheaper because of the minor technical differences, and not because of their status as used devices....

Riiiiiiiiight...

Go buy a new clip-on. Any brand. Any model...

Then use it for a month and try to sell it. You will have proven my point.

Yes, the differences Terry mentions are real. As proven by the market here on Snipershide (and elsewhere), almost NOBODY considers those differences worth paying almost ANYTHING for. This is PROVEN by our own optics for sale forum.

Used (NEW model) PVS30s sell for about 7000 at best (usually lower). The military returns sell for 4500-5300.

Thus, the value the market places on the differences Terry mentions are a quantifiable and verifiable 2000 dollars.

Since these are about 6000 dollars discounted from a new PVS30, that leaves 4000 dollars of discount due to the military driving these off the lot... just like I said. That’s TWICE the value change that can be attributed to model differences.

This is quantifiable. This is proven. Right here on Snipershide.
 
#Evolution 9, I did not say that the low price had nothing to do with the fact that those units are "used".

The fact that the chassis and most of the parts are used definitely steers the low selling price and shorter warranty period.

18 months ago, I paid just over $9K for a brand new W.P. 30. Being patient and knowing where to look can save you $.

The FOM on my 30 is graded at 2012 and it has a total of 5 yrs warranty direct with KAC. From what I have seen, the FOM rating for mine is only average for new 30s. All of their I.I. tubes have to meet a minimum FOM of 2000 to pass inspection for shipping.

When I am running a class that has PVS-24LRs, PVS-22s, PVS-27s, Simrads and even some of these rebuilt 26s showing up, I absolutely have to be able to see as good or better than the best ones on my line. I also have to be able to keep my eyes in the spotter or in the scope for 3 or 4 hours at a time without wanting to claw my eyes out. This 30 allows me to reach both of those goals.

For ME, the extra money was and is worth the performance difference and the warranty. $4,800 on a unit that can't deliver what I need is a waste of $4,800. However, if I was just occasionally plinking steel at night or using the unit to augment my thermal for hog hunting, I would have been crazy to buy the 30.

It depends on what you want to use the unit for as to whether a refurb 26 is a bargain or not. For me, it would have been money wasted if I bought an "OK" unit that I can't even use to keep up with, spot and designate for NV users in our classes.

Texts, forums and social media lack context even with a shit ton of writing. You seem to make it your mission to leverage any language and or holes in a reply to make your own case. I stand by my original reply to your first entry into this thread. You were dead wrong.

Nobody is arguing. Just trying to share info. Carry on however you please.

./
 
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Terry,

Approach determines response. If you don’t like my response then reconsider your approach.

No, I’m not dead wrong.

In fact, I proved by the laws of mathematics and capitalism that you are 1/3 right, and that I am 2/3 right. It’s not up for debate. It’s math.

Thus, nobody is “dead wrong”. If we were to force the guy who was more wrong to be considered “dead wrong” then it would be you, and not me. I’m not going there, any I certainly suggest you don’t, as it’s neither accurate nor is it in your favor.

I do agree with you 100 percent that the value of one unit over the other to my or your specific needs is completely dependent on personal factors like budget and specific intended use.

I pay dealer cost for some of my gear so I certainly value careful purchasing but it wouldn’t be reasonable for me to compare my items at dealer cost to similar items at retail.
 
More wrong??? :unsure:

i-qs4rZ6X-S.jpg
 
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Ok, Terry, you’re right. If these were brand new directly from KAC, they would still be $4700 ???
 
Terry Cross said:
Make no mistake, I think the refurbished PVS-26s are outstanding value for the price point. That was not in question.
For most users, it's a no brainer.

However, quotes like the one from #Evolution 9 are not accurate.
The units are not simply used PVS-30s that the military bought and then traded in. They are PVS-26s that are refurbished. Many think that those units being marketed under the "30" moniker is misleading.

The PVS-30s have a different center housing that only accepts a single battery. It is a completely different casting. The 30's battery station can run a single AA or a DL123 simply by reversing the screw on cap.

The power consumption of the PVS-30 is far less than the older 26s. You can install a AA that seemed depleted in another piece of equipment and still run the 30 for 2 or 3 hours. Could be a big deal even for pig hunters if in cold weather. Def a big deal if on a call out for a few hours in real cold.

The glass on the front of the PVS-30 is a totally different generation than the older 26s as well.

The FOM numbers are the rating that the I.I. tubes are graded at without regard to the optics in front that feed them the images as efficiently as possible. If a refurbed PVS-26 and new PVS-30 happened to have equal FOM rated I.I.tubes, the 30 would provide a better image due to the higher performance glass/coatings.

The refurbed units are rebuilt but they do not rebuild them with PVS-30 parts. I assure you that if they were doing that, you would not see the prices they are being sold at plus they (KAC) would be poisoning their own well for new PVS-30 sales.

I give you this, I believe that you have to be on them for a while and be under really challenging environmental and target contrast conditions to distinguish the image difference between a 1500'ish FOM and a 2000 FOM. The refurbed 26s are very , very good for the money. I am trying to budget one myself as an additional loaner unit for the 1 Mil Right classes.

So ...... my opinion ( which is just like assholes) is that the rebuilt 26s are very, very good units for the money.

and

No matter how you slice it, they are not 30s.

My PVS-30 has a W.P. tube from Photonis with a FOM over 2000. I can consistently see details and targets better than most other units being brought to our classes where we shoot 2 or 3 nights of night fire. I don't think the performance is the tube alone.

./
Click to expand...

Thanks for making me poor Terry
 
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