I have noticed on multiple occations some deviations of .010 and even .015 on berger bullets when I run them up into my seater. They'll be real consistant for a while, and then out on nowhere I get a short one. Anyone else notice this at all?
Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
- Thread starter 264highlandhunter
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Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
from lot to lot i have noticed some differences.
but the ogive is pretty consistant
from lot to lot i have noticed some differences.
but the ogive is pretty consistant
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Yeah, and all of them others. But, they swear, it doesn't matter. BB
Yeah, and all of them others. But, they swear, it doesn't matter. BB
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Yep, I have 3 lots. The length will vary on the meplat. These lots are all three berger 130 gr vld match.
Lot 3262- 1.710 base to ogive
Lot 3851- 1.725 base to ogive
Lot 3118- 1.734 base to ogive
my comparitor is 1.105 at zero
While these are only .014 different in three lots the bearing length has an effect on pressure and thus velocity. This can cause vertical at range.
Yep, I have 3 lots. The length will vary on the meplat. These lots are all three berger 130 gr vld match.
Lot 3262- 1.710 base to ogive
Lot 3851- 1.725 base to ogive
Lot 3118- 1.734 base to ogive
my comparitor is 1.105 at zero
While these are only .014 different in three lots the bearing length has an effect on pressure and thus velocity. This can cause vertical at range.
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Weird. I used to seperate them by Ogive but stopped because i would only see a .003"-.005" spread. .015"-.020" is alot! The only bullet i saw with that much deviation in the past was SMK's. If there is a greater demand for them and they are being made on different machines that could account for the variance.
Weird. I used to seperate them by Ogive but stopped because i would only see a .003"-.005" spread. .015"-.020" is alot! The only bullet i saw with that much deviation in the past was SMK's. If there is a greater demand for them and they are being made on different machines that could account for the variance.
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
I just went and randomly checked a few out of 100 rds. I loaded a while back and have yet to shoot. The ogives on these vary by +- .001". The COAL's varied from 2.905-2.920, or .015" total variation. Quite a variation in bullet OAL if you ask me. I never measured it before, only bearing length which has been pretty good.
For the sake of comparison, 20 rds. loaded with 139 Scenars (loaded to the same ogive length) measure 2.841-2.843. A total deviation of .002". I'm liking Scenars more and more.
John
I just went and randomly checked a few out of 100 rds. I loaded a while back and have yet to shoot. The ogives on these vary by +- .001". The COAL's varied from 2.905-2.920, or .015" total variation. Quite a variation in bullet OAL if you ask me. I never measured it before, only bearing length which has been pretty good.
For the sake of comparison, 20 rds. loaded with 139 Scenars (loaded to the same ogive length) measure 2.841-2.843. A total deviation of .002". I'm liking Scenars more and more.
John
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
You are correct.
I have had to length sort every batch of Berger bullets that I ever bought. I try to buy in lots of at least 500 at a time.
I sort base to ogive in 0.001 increments, and shoot them in batches of shortest to longest. (not that I think order means anything, but that is how I do it).
By buying large lots, my sorted groups are fairly large - and it reduces the chances of running out and needing to load more than any two lots at one time.
Jeffvn
You are correct.
I have had to length sort every batch of Berger bullets that I ever bought. I try to buy in lots of at least 500 at a time.
I sort base to ogive in 0.001 increments, and shoot them in batches of shortest to longest. (not that I think order means anything, but that is how I do it).
By buying large lots, my sorted groups are fairly large - and it reduces the chances of running out and needing to load more than any two lots at one time.
Jeffvn
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
I had the same problem with the 208 Amaxs' and we were talking .002" up to .015" in length differences.. all were measured for bearing surface.
The last few batches of Bergers were good, the SMK were real good too
I had the same problem with the 208 Amaxs' and we were talking .002" up to .015" in length differences.. all were measured for bearing surface.
The last few batches of Bergers were good, the SMK were real good too
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Good point. I should have included that I am still using that last batch of 3,000 180 vlds that I bought during my last group buy in 2010 (almost gone but a few hundred left).
Jeff
Good point. I should have included that I am still using that last batch of 3,000 180 vlds that I bought during my last group buy in 2010 (almost gone but a few hundred left).
Jeff
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Jumping tangent ogive bullets will not notice a couple of thousandths unless the difference has some seated just barely off the lands and some touching. Load .010 to .020 off and don't worry about it.
Jumping tangent ogive bullets will not notice a couple of thousandths unless the difference has some seated just barely off the lands and some touching. Load .010 to .020 off and don't worry about it.
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, I have 3 lots. The length will vary on the meplat. These lots are all three berger 130 gr vld match.
Lot 3262- 1.710 base to ogive
Lot 3851- 1.725 base to ogive
Lot 3118- 1.734 base to ogive
my comparitor is 1.105 at zero
While these are only .014 different in three lots the bearing length has an effect on pressure and thus velocity. This can cause vertical at range. </div></div>
Rthur,
What stringing have you measured at 1K? I'm trying to see if I should start measuring for this more closely.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, I have 3 lots. The length will vary on the meplat. These lots are all three berger 130 gr vld match.
Lot 3262- 1.710 base to ogive
Lot 3851- 1.725 base to ogive
Lot 3118- 1.734 base to ogive
my comparitor is 1.105 at zero
While these are only .014 different in three lots the bearing length has an effect on pressure and thus velocity. This can cause vertical at range. </div></div>
Rthur,
What stringing have you measured at 1K? I'm trying to see if I should start measuring for this more closely.
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Yes, such deviations will cause vertical dispersion at range.
But I also think it's a fallacy to believe that eliminating this will make a match winning difference overall.
There are several such limiting factors that degrade accuracy to the point where dispersion is unavoidable, and enough of them are sufficiantly beyond the shooter's/handloader's control that getting wound around the axle about any single one of them is simply impractical.
Well known folks who regularly shoot in competition a lot better than I can tell me that in practical terms, a good 1/2MOA rifle at 100yd is also usually a good 2MOA rifle at 1000yd.
This tells me a few things, and the first is that marksmanship carries a higher premium for them than BR-like ammo precision.
Another is that the better shooters are willing to accept a practical limit to their ammo precision and put their main effort into intimately knowing their rifle's bottom line performance, and investing the more serious parts of their attention into dealing with local shooting conditions.
When they worry out there on the line, I think it's seldom about bullet meplats and such.
As LL suggests, just get the hell out there and shoot the danged thing. Handloading is a necessary evil. Do it quickly, with reasonable care, and optimize your time to favor spending more of it on the range.
Greg
Yes, such deviations will cause vertical dispersion at range.
But I also think it's a fallacy to believe that eliminating this will make a match winning difference overall.
There are several such limiting factors that degrade accuracy to the point where dispersion is unavoidable, and enough of them are sufficiantly beyond the shooter's/handloader's control that getting wound around the axle about any single one of them is simply impractical.
Well known folks who regularly shoot in competition a lot better than I can tell me that in practical terms, a good 1/2MOA rifle at 100yd is also usually a good 2MOA rifle at 1000yd.
This tells me a few things, and the first is that marksmanship carries a higher premium for them than BR-like ammo precision.
Another is that the better shooters are willing to accept a practical limit to their ammo precision and put their main effort into intimately knowing their rifle's bottom line performance, and investing the more serious parts of their attention into dealing with local shooting conditions.
When they worry out there on the line, I think it's seldom about bullet meplats and such.
As LL suggests, just get the hell out there and shoot the danged thing. Handloading is a necessary evil. Do it quickly, with reasonable care, and optimize your time to favor spending more of it on the range.
Greg
Re: Ever noticed length deviation in berger bullets???
Im drilling out the bullet seating cup in my RCBS die to accomodate the long narrow nose of the Berger OTM Hybrid bullet, 1/16" should do the trick. The 300SMK's nose tip has clearance because the cup contacts the bullet in front of the ogive due to the SMK's "chubbier" nose profile. I only use c.o.a.l. to check that the round will fit in the magazine after my jump to the lands is established after several trial seatings. This usually gives me pretty good results. For precision shooting, OAL and COAL only tells me if my magazine is useless or not.
Im drilling out the bullet seating cup in my RCBS die to accomodate the long narrow nose of the Berger OTM Hybrid bullet, 1/16" should do the trick. The 300SMK's nose tip has clearance because the cup contacts the bullet in front of the ogive due to the SMK's "chubbier" nose profile. I only use c.o.a.l. to check that the round will fit in the magazine after my jump to the lands is established after several trial seatings. This usually gives me pretty good results. For precision shooting, OAL and COAL only tells me if my magazine is useless or not.
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