I was noticing today that some of my loads were more black than normal. What is the common cause?
BTW, .308 using Varget out of a R5.
BTW, .308 using Varget out of a R5.
- Thread starter CVO
- Start date
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Your rifle has afirmative action.
Your rifle has afirmative action.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Work hardening of the case, the brass is not springing out as far as new brass will. This is allowing the powder gasses to travel between the case and the chamber.
Work hardening of the case, the brass is not springing out as far as new brass will. This is allowing the powder gasses to travel between the case and the chamber.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Work hardening of the case, the brass is not springing out as far as new brass will. This is allowing the powder gasses to travel between the case and the chamber. </div></div>
This was the first reload on these cases, Lapua and Nosler. They were trimmed and neck sized only.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Work hardening of the case, the brass is not springing out as far as new brass will. This is allowing the powder gasses to travel between the case and the chamber. </div></div>
This was the first reload on these cases, Lapua and Nosler. They were trimmed and neck sized only.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Your fireformed cases have a greated capacity than your virgin brass. Greater capacity means lower pressures with the same powder charge. Lower pressures mean more carbon on your neck.
Did they group the same?
Your fireformed cases have a greated capacity than your virgin brass. Greater capacity means lower pressures with the same powder charge. Lower pressures mean more carbon on your neck.
Did they group the same?
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Deleted in protest!
Deleted in protest!
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your fireformed cases have a greated capacity than your virgin brass. Greater capacity means lower pressures with the same powder charge. Lower pressures mean more carbon on your neck.
Did they group the same? </div></div>
No they didn't, that's why I figured the necks were telling me something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your fireformed cases have a greated capacity than your virgin brass. Greater capacity means lower pressures with the same powder charge. Lower pressures mean more carbon on your neck.
Did they group the same? </div></div>
No they didn't, that's why I figured the necks were telling me something.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Up the charge by half a grain if they be Winchesters.
Up the charge by half a grain if they be Winchesters.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CVO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was noticing today that some of my loads were more black than normal. What is the common cause?
BTW, .308 using Varget out of a R5. </div></div>
Maybe you're trimming your cases too short and you're getting gas blow by?
Rems have long throats, so maybe let them grow a bit, thereby creating a better gas seal.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CVO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was noticing today that some of my loads were more black than normal. What is the common cause?
BTW, .308 using Varget out of a R5. </div></div>
Maybe you're trimming your cases too short and you're getting gas blow by?
Rems have long throats, so maybe let them grow a bit, thereby creating a better gas seal.
Chris
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Some points:
Adjusting loads upward should be done only after verifying that pressure signs indicate some room for charge growth. Because neck sooting can have several causes, it should not be the sole indicator that more pressure is needed. BTW, neither the sooting nor the underlying causes indicate any problems, as such.
Case length growth should never be allowed to procede beyond SAAMI maximum case length limits. Period.
The advice in the above posts remains valid, but please make sure the basic handloading precautions don't get bypassed.
The cause you ask about is a failure of the neck to seal against the chamber's interior. It can be the result of a pressure deficit, work hardened necks, or a combination of both. Observing pressure signs, mostly at the base of the cartridge, can help confirm the former. Increased tool resistance when operating in the vicinity of the neck, increased projectile seating resistance, and possible bullet saving when seating, are all potential indicators of work hardened necks. Unless you anneal your cases, said indicators are telling you the cases' lifespan is nearing its end.
Greg
Some points:
Adjusting loads upward should be done only after verifying that pressure signs indicate some room for charge growth. Because neck sooting can have several causes, it should not be the sole indicator that more pressure is needed. BTW, neither the sooting nor the underlying causes indicate any problems, as such.
Case length growth should never be allowed to procede beyond SAAMI maximum case length limits. Period.
The advice in the above posts remains valid, but please make sure the basic handloading precautions don't get bypassed.
The cause you ask about is a failure of the neck to seal against the chamber's interior. It can be the result of a pressure deficit, work hardened necks, or a combination of both. Observing pressure signs, mostly at the base of the cartridge, can help confirm the former. Increased tool resistance when operating in the vicinity of the neck, increased projectile seating resistance, and possible bullet saving when seating, are all potential indicators of work hardened necks. Unless you anneal your cases, said indicators are telling you the cases' lifespan is nearing its end.
Greg
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
What's the best way to get this powder off. Tumbling doesn't do it, and fine steel wool is a lot of work, though I have not dipped the wool in powder slovent.
Also, while I don't care that my loads don't shine like new, if I'm missing something in the cleaning process,maybe my media is worn out; enlighten me. What's that additive that is suppose to recharge media? Flitz?
What's the best way to get this powder off. Tumbling doesn't do it, and fine steel wool is a lot of work, though I have not dipped the wool in powder slovent.
Also, while I don't care that my loads don't shine like new, if I'm missing something in the cleaning process,maybe my media is worn out; enlighten me. What's that additive that is suppose to recharge media? Flitz?
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Use steel wool while spinning the case in a drill or a Sinclair power station.
Use steel wool while spinning the case in a drill or a Sinclair power station.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
I have been having the same problem with Hornady Match brass in my .308. I am running 47.0-47.5gr of varget with 155gr SMKs and still no pressure signs, also the velocity is around 2800 or less out of a 20" barrel. The cases only weigh 156gr, so I think I will try some winchester or something a little heavier to get the pressure up some and the velocity. The 47.5gr load is compressed.
I have been having the same problem with Hornady Match brass in my .308. I am running 47.0-47.5gr of varget with 155gr SMKs and still no pressure signs, also the velocity is around 2800 or less out of a 20" barrel. The cases only weigh 156gr, so I think I will try some winchester or something a little heavier to get the pressure up some and the velocity. The 47.5gr load is compressed.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Getting the carbon off. I figure it's not a big issue, and doesn't seem to interfere with the actual handloading process.
I tumble the cases clean as usual, what carbon remains is diminished, and I leave it on while I complete the cartridge assembly.
When all handloading is done, I use #0 steel wool to polish each entire cartridge. It takes a lot less time it do it on an assembled round, and leaves the round spotless as it enters the cartridge box.
For 100 rounds, it's maybe a 15-20 minute mindless exercise while watching TV.
Greg
Getting the carbon off. I figure it's not a big issue, and doesn't seem to interfere with the actual handloading process.
I tumble the cases clean as usual, what carbon remains is diminished, and I leave it on while I complete the cartridge assembly.
When all handloading is done, I use #0 steel wool to polish each entire cartridge. It takes a lot less time it do it on an assembled round, and leaves the round spotless as it enters the cartridge box.
For 100 rounds, it's maybe a 15-20 minute mindless exercise while watching TV.
Greg
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
some other observations ....
virgin brass used in a new barrel w/fresh tooling...(new ,fresh chamber). .. will NOT exhibit carbon flash on the necks.
some other observations ....
virgin brass used in a new barrel w/fresh tooling...(new ,fresh chamber). .. will NOT exhibit carbon flash on the necks.
Re: Excess Burned Powder On Case Neck
Pics of the cases and build up would help so we know if it's "normal" or excessive.
It's possible to get a fair bit and not have "issues".
Pics of the cases and build up would help so we know if it's "normal" or excessive.
It's possible to get a fair bit and not have "issues".
