Gunsmithing excessive fouling

rocky_lange

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Aug 18, 2008
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Anyone ever have a rifle foul up after 3 shots?

I have a new(ish) Kimber 84M LPT .308. Had 5 rounds down the tube when I bought it. I cleaned it good and sighted it in, took 9 to get it where I wanted it. I could tell it wasn't grouping very tightly, about 2 MOA. Cleaned the heck out of it till Barnes CR10 brought out clean patches.

Clean bore fouling shot hit a little low and about .75" to the right. Next 3 went .5 MOA group point of aim, but the next shoot was about an inch to the right. I thought maybe a flier, shot after that 1 inch right and 1 inch low. Finished off that box of ammo and had an 11 shot group about 2.5 MOA scattered low and right except for that 3 shot group into 1 hole. Ammo used was Hormady Match 178gr HPBT.

I haven't cleaned it yet since I have gotten home, waiting until girlfriend gets up and about for the day so I don't bug her too much but I am willing to bet I get lots and lots of blue patches.

I don't have a bore scope, so I can't check the barrel myself. What do you guys think, Tubbs Final Finish or take if to a competent smith and have him hand lap the barrel? Do you think a full regimine of Final Finish would be enough if the barrel fouls as fast as it does? I have Jimmy McCullogh close by and would probably have him do the lapping unless anyone knows a better smith closer to Birmingham, AL.
 

Victor N TN

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Feb 16, 2002
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Re: excessive fouling

Did you have wind flags out? Do you know how to read them?
Were you shooting prone or from a bench?
In what position were you in when you were actually shooting?
What kind of rest / bags did you use?
If you were shooting from a bipod, what kind of surface was under it?
What kind of experience do you have shooting?

Lapping, either by hand or firing should be the very last thing you do. If I were you I would have another experienced shooter try it with some factory type match ammo, before doing anything permanent. It's highly unlikely that fouling, whether copper or powder, is your problem. Most rifles go 30 to 100 rounds between cleaning. Those figures depend on the type of cleaning chemicals you're using and your individual procedure.
 

rocky_lange

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Re: excessive fouling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have wind flags out? Do you know how to read them?
Were you shooting prone or from a bench?
In what position were you in when you were actually shooting?
What kind of rest / bags did you use?
If you were shooting from a bipod, what kind of surface was under it?
What kind of experience do you have shooting?

Lapping, either by hand or firing should be the very last thing you do. If I were you I would have another experienced shooter try it with some factory type match ammo, before doing anything permanent. It's highly unlikely that fouling, whether copper or powder, is your problem. Most rifles go 30 to 100 rounds between cleaning. Those figures depend on the type of cleaning chemicals you're using and your individual procedure. </div></div>

Vic:

Did not have wind flags out. Was using leaves/trees to gauge wind, 0-5 mph tops from 12 O'Clock.

Fired from bench, seated.

Caldwell Rock BR front/Caldwell bag rear. USO anti cant buble level.

Shooting experience? Umm, yep. I shoot local BR 100yd and regularly attain .3-.5MOA in factory class depending upon which rifle I am using shooting on same rest and bag.

Like I said, new rifle and I was using Match ammo. I am just wondering if I have a VERY rough barrel (no bore scope). I can "feel" (or at least think I can) sticky spots when I start cleaning with a wet patch. Usually a few wet patches, let is sit 2-3 minutes and light scrub with a nylon brush and follow that with alternating wet dry patches until no more blue. So far the rifle only has 25 rounds fired.

Let me guess, load up and shoot another 100 or so and break in the barrel, right? And try different loads, yeah, I get that . Fully understand it. But I would think, like you said, a rifle will normally go 30 - 100 rounds before opening up regardless of the load.

And if it comes to it, Jimmt McC will hand lap for $80. Is that a fair price? Final Finish is about $35 + powder and primers.

Thanks
 

Clark

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Jul 4, 2003
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WA the everblue state
Re: excessive fouling

If the wind is 5 mph, I switch to 50 yards.

For checking for Copper fouling, I do and initial cleaning and then dry patches. I then use a magnifier and a small lamp. The last 3/8" of bore at the muzzle will present a sample of the worst Copper fouling. Sometimes it looks like Copper stripes, but sometimes it looks like red paint.

Factory barrels are supposed to foul quickly and clean slowly and custom barrels that were factory lapped are supposed to foul slowly and clean quickly.
But it doesn't always work out that way.

One key to reducing fouling is to slow down the bullet velocity. But you are probably already very slow with respect to Copper fouling with a 178 gr out of a 308.