Gunsmithing Extraction Issues, need some advice

[KYS]

I just got a build back that is a Lawton 7000 short action repeater, Lawton barrel in 6.5 Grendel with Badger DBM in a McMillan stock. I am having issues with empties extracting. I have 2 types of ammo, Wolf Gold Match and Hornady Match. They both shoot great but obviously the Hornady is the more accurate round. Here is my issue:

The wolf shoots well and will extract but barely makes it 6" from the rifle. The Hornady will not extract at all. It will pick it up and on the way out just drops it onto the mag. Then I have to usually drop the mag to get the brass out. <span style="font-weight: bold">What are my options of a home remedy to get this thing to extract?</span> I am done dealing with Lawton, they are worthless in customer service. After 9 months and being sent back once already I will not wait on them again.

I am already having to mod the 308 mag to get the rounds to feed reliably, since they failed to do that as well. When I get all of this done I am going to send it off for the tac knob that was also NOT installed.

Thanks for any help you can suggest. I am also just considering sending this off to Mark @ SAC, he is close by and does great work.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Test the plunger make sure tension is there, does the lawton action have the sako style extractor, m16 type, or the floating remington type? Is the bolt sticking at all? Any signs of pressure?

 

[eddieharren]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Sounds to me like the rifle EXTRACTS but does not EJECT properly. Is this the situation?

 

[redrider308]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

+1 for SAC...2 birds with 1 stone extraction issue an knob job.

 

[KYS]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

It will throw out the Wolf ammo but not the Hornady. Maybe a difference in the brass? No pressure signs. But a friend did suggest that it might be a tight chamber and it just likes the Wolf better. Which sucks because I bought a lot of the Hornady before I had the rifle. So I am trying to get it to be reliable with both types. This will be a coyote rifle so I need it to be dependable.

I am just frustrated that I paid all that money and they can't deliver a finished and working rifle. Not to mention they wanted to Krylon the gun, I had to pay someone to coat it properly.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[sniper2ndrep]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Dont feel too bad. I got from them a POS with a crooked reciever among other fucked up shit on it..Ill never deal with them again.

 

[PCR]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

From your post, it sounds like your empties are extracting, but not ejecting. Check that your ejector plunger/spring is strong, smooth and unobstructed.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

I suspect you do not have enough extractor tension or engagement .What can happen is as the fired round comes back the ejector over powers the extractor and prematurely releases the case.If thats it one of two things will fix it increase extractor tension or reduce ejector pressure.

 

[AJ_Goddard]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

The problem is the short case and the ejection angle. Remington deals with it on their 221 Fireball by moving the extractor position to the 1 o'clock position so the case does not cant out into the lug raceway but a little more upward and aginst the bolt raceway. Thus when it reaches the port there is still travel in the ejector to throw the case.
AJ

 

[KYS]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

This also tells me that Lawton did not function test the rifle. They had 3 dummy rounds and they obviously were not testing the feeding or ejecting. I was told the mag would be modified to feed the rounds reliably but "the idiot secretary must have forgot". Or that was the most common excuse I got from them.

This is all frustrating. They won't be seeing my money ever again.

 

[gamma]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper2ndrep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont feel too bad. I got from them a POS with a crooked reciever among other fucked up shit on it..Ill never deal with them again. </div></div>
I dont think thats very fair to any manufacturer to make a comment like yours. Any precision engineering manufacturer can have problems with precision components. Did they sort out the problem. I dont think any maker hasnt had some kind of problem at some stage, that doesnt mean they produce shit.

 

[sniper2ndrep]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Did you see the gun? was it your money or your constantly delayed with excuses with time involved. or brand new kreiger barrel they fucked up by dragging the endmil from one flute to the next.ect ect ect..please STFU..

 

[swd]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Sounds like not enough ejector throw. Try about .003" to .005" more travel on the ejector at a time. A little goes a long way.

 

[KYS]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mikki</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper2ndrep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont feel too bad. I got from them a POS with a crooked reciever among other fucked up shit on it..Ill never deal with them again. </div></div>
I dont think thats very fair to any manufacturer to make a comment like yours. Any precision engineering manufacturer can have problems with precision components. Did they sort out the problem. I dont think any maker hasnt had some kind of problem at some stage, that doesnt mean they produce shit. </div></div>

Unless you have dealt with them..... keep quiet. They have screwed numerous amounts of people on builds AND then not taken care of the problems. I have owned 4 rifles built by them. All but ONE had to go to another build for corrective work. Its one thing after another. They constantly screw up and lay all the blame on their secretary. I was promised gold and got copper. I gave them 3 chances to get it right on 3 separate rifles. They could not get their act together for any of them. I paid them and then someone else to correct the "work" they did.

They have really spiraled down the crapper lately. Now its a shame I will have to buy more product and pay for someones labor to get this rifle to function properly.

 

[AJ_Goddard]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like not enough ejector throw. Try about .003" to .005" more travel on the ejector at a time. A little goes a long way. </div></div>
SWD is on the right track lengthing the ejector will help. The case rim thickness and how much forward and back play the case has under the extractor also play a role. As SWD stated a little goes a long way. You don't want to get the ejector too long as that can cause feeding problems. The ejector should stay behind the bolt face. On a repeater as the case is coming out of the mag the top edge of the case rim will tip to the rear as it slides up the face of the bolt if it contacts the ejector it can get pushed to one side. This will cause jams as the case usually gets cocked sideways. On a single shot this is not an issue as the case is never below the ejector and more in line with the chamber. As I stated earlier the ideal solution is to eject a short case a little more upward.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

I concur with SWD. Short cases will kick out from under the extractor after they clear the chamber. Combination of the angle and chamfer on the inside of the bolt nose. Sometimes increasing the ejector travel solves the problem. I've done this to two rifles in the last month. Another issue is whether they used a 308 bolt face which could and would make the problem worse. .445" vs. .473" head diameter.

 

[KYS]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Thanks guys. I got it feeding Wolf ammo reliably now. And ejecting it

 

[DP425]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

A little off topic, but KY, you said this is the fourth rifle you've had them build and the previous three they screwed up as well? I'm just curious why you've given them so many chances.

 

[KYS]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

Because my others came in pieces and had someone else assemble them. It was little things like I asked for a fluted barrel and didn't get it. Or I asked them to cut my barrel threads a certain length and they couldn't do that.....


Its really doesn't matter why I kept going back, I was willing to give them the change because they kept begging to make it right for me. Why do you care how many chances I gave them? I was willing to let them work shit out.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: Extraction Issues, need some advice

I guess he is hinting at you letting them screw you over mutiple times. People should just say what they mean....

Funny enough, the only times I've really been done over is when I have tried to play nice and given people chances. When I've gone straight for the Company or person who is trying I tend to come out of it better but feel worse for not giving them more than a fair chance to do the right thing. Sounds like you had the same issue

Good to see you are at least getting the thing usable and after what has gone on I hope they burn