I need and extractor installed in my rifle rem 700 338 ultra mag. thinking sako style can i send just my bolt to a gun smith or do i need to send the whole gun thanks i just moved to Utah and have been unable to find a good gunsmith if there is one please let me know
Gunsmithing extractor question
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Re: extractor question
My thoughts:
I won't install a Sako extractor on a Remington. Here's why:
The Sako extractor is retained in a bolt by nothing more than a spring, a plunger, and some clever mechanical interaction. In a 3 lug Sako action this presents little concern as the rotating index of the bolt is 60 degrees. The extractor is physically retained in the receiver by the lug ring.
It's different in a 90* twin lug like the Remington 700. When bolt is rotated into battery the extractor's clock position is almost in direct line with the receiver raceway, meaning there is very little material from preventing the extractor from being shot out of the ejection port in the event of a case rupture/head separation. The Remington breech face has a counter bore that typically measures around .150" in depth. The Sako Extractor is almost 5/8" of an inch long. A 1:4 ratio isn't very good when there's upwards of 45-60K CUP of pressure behind it. If the action were like a Savage with the floating (non rotating)assembly behind the locking lugs it'd be a different story as there would be a physical barrier between the raceways and the shooter's face.
The worse case scenario being if a left handed shooter were to be using a R/H action the probability of injury is increased significantly as the non aiming eye has an almost direct line of sight to the ejection port of the action.
Paranoid? I used to entertain this until conducting a little research and seeing that a number of my colleagues have adopted the same policy.
Recently, within the last month, a local shooter experienced a very violent case rupture on a wildcat BR gun. The brass had furnace brazed itself to the bolt in a few locations, some as far back as 3-4 inches from the bolt face. He had to undergo emergency eye surgery. I inspected the barreled action afterward. The ejector was nowhere to be found.
I would advise against the Sako extractor in any 90* turn-bolt two lug action for these reasons. Unless the bolt face has been altered to fit a different cartridge, the factory Remington extractor is more than adequate. In fact I believe in a "taste test" it actually exceeded the Sako in terms of overall strength.
If you must alter it, I would suggest the AR 15 style as it at least has a cross pin that offers a better degree of fail safe in the event the gun "sneezes" a case.
Good luck.
C
My thoughts:
I won't install a Sako extractor on a Remington. Here's why:
The Sako extractor is retained in a bolt by nothing more than a spring, a plunger, and some clever mechanical interaction. In a 3 lug Sako action this presents little concern as the rotating index of the bolt is 60 degrees. The extractor is physically retained in the receiver by the lug ring.
It's different in a 90* twin lug like the Remington 700. When bolt is rotated into battery the extractor's clock position is almost in direct line with the receiver raceway, meaning there is very little material from preventing the extractor from being shot out of the ejection port in the event of a case rupture/head separation. The Remington breech face has a counter bore that typically measures around .150" in depth. The Sako Extractor is almost 5/8" of an inch long. A 1:4 ratio isn't very good when there's upwards of 45-60K CUP of pressure behind it. If the action were like a Savage with the floating (non rotating)assembly behind the locking lugs it'd be a different story as there would be a physical barrier between the raceways and the shooter's face.
The worse case scenario being if a left handed shooter were to be using a R/H action the probability of injury is increased significantly as the non aiming eye has an almost direct line of sight to the ejection port of the action.
Paranoid? I used to entertain this until conducting a little research and seeing that a number of my colleagues have adopted the same policy.
Recently, within the last month, a local shooter experienced a very violent case rupture on a wildcat BR gun. The brass had furnace brazed itself to the bolt in a few locations, some as far back as 3-4 inches from the bolt face. He had to undergo emergency eye surgery. I inspected the barreled action afterward. The ejector was nowhere to be found.
I would advise against the Sako extractor in any 90* turn-bolt two lug action for these reasons. Unless the bolt face has been altered to fit a different cartridge, the factory Remington extractor is more than adequate. In fact I believe in a "taste test" it actually exceeded the Sako in terms of overall strength.
If you must alter it, I would suggest the AR 15 style as it at least has a cross pin that offers a better degree of fail safe in the event the gun "sneezes" a case.
Good luck.
C
Re: extractor question
I have had two sako extractors install and had to provide the whole action. My understanding was just to insure it functions properly before being returned. The installation seems fairly simple using a fixture and did not take long.
I have had two sako extractors install and had to provide the whole action. My understanding was just to insure it functions properly before being returned. The installation seems fairly simple using a fixture and did not take long.
Re: extractor question
You'll need the bolt nose relief in the barrel opened up to 0.785" for clearance with either extractor. The barreled action needs to go in together with the bolt.
You'll need the bolt nose relief in the barrel opened up to 0.785" for clearance with either extractor. The barreled action needs to go in together with the bolt.
Re: extractor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you must alter it, I would suggest the AR 15 style as it at least has a cross pin that offers a better degree of fail safe in the event the gun "sneezes" a case. </div></div>
And this is why I love the Weatherby Vanguard and Howa 1500 actions. They come from the factory with AR style extractors.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you must alter it, I would suggest the AR 15 style as it at least has a cross pin that offers a better degree of fail safe in the event the gun "sneezes" a case. </div></div>
And this is why I love the Weatherby Vanguard and Howa 1500 actions. They come from the factory with AR style extractors.
Re: extractor question
I understand the concerns some have with the sako instal, when properly installed, the extractor would likly have to shear the plunger to come out with a case rupture. along the same lines a m-16 style could break at the pin and the front half of that extractor could come back with a case rupture. With the sakos retaining hole usually drilled thru into the fire pin race way this increases the chance of gas pressure pushing out from the gas escaping thru the firing pin hole, thus pushing laterally on the underside of the extractor. Which is not the case with the m-16 thus giving it a bit of an advantage. Kiff bolts set up for sakos typically are not drilled thru to the fire pin race way, which may or may not, give that instal a bit of an advantage over the rem bolt conversion.
If one is responsible the sako conversion should not fail, but accidents do happen. I personally have sakos in a few of my guns and I have never been concerned about them coming out.
Depending on the bolt face dia of the cartrige the counter bore will not need to be opened up with a .473 bf and smaller and a magnum would not need to be opened near as much as required for a m-16 style
I understand the concerns some have with the sako instal, when properly installed, the extractor would likly have to shear the plunger to come out with a case rupture. along the same lines a m-16 style could break at the pin and the front half of that extractor could come back with a case rupture. With the sakos retaining hole usually drilled thru into the fire pin race way this increases the chance of gas pressure pushing out from the gas escaping thru the firing pin hole, thus pushing laterally on the underside of the extractor. Which is not the case with the m-16 thus giving it a bit of an advantage. Kiff bolts set up for sakos typically are not drilled thru to the fire pin race way, which may or may not, give that instal a bit of an advantage over the rem bolt conversion.
If one is responsible the sako conversion should not fail, but accidents do happen. I personally have sakos in a few of my guns and I have never been concerned about them coming out.
Depending on the bolt face dia of the cartrige the counter bore will not need to be opened up with a .473 bf and smaller and a magnum would not need to be opened near as much as required for a m-16 style
Re: extractor question
Sakos are not safe. My understanding is that a Sako rifle has a way of blocking the Sako extractor, but the Remington modification does not have any such safeguard. If you pay attention to this subject there is a constant stream of stories where blown cases cause flying Sako extractors and serious injuries.
Get the min-M16 extractor if you feel the need to go this route.
Sakos are not safe. My understanding is that a Sako rifle has a way of blocking the Sako extractor, but the Remington modification does not have any such safeguard. If you pay attention to this subject there is a constant stream of stories where blown cases cause flying Sako extractors and serious injuries.
Get the min-M16 extractor if you feel the need to go this route.
Re: extractor question
I wouldn't put to much faith in an M-16 style extractor. Here is a picture of a Howa that had a case rupture. The receiver ring is in three pieces, note where it fractured. I know what they say but I don't really trust investment casting. Extractor is long gone. The ejector is driven back into the bolt and the steel surrounding it cut away. Never ever shoot a rifle while looking into the port. It can and has killed people. You are looking at the ass end of a bomb. It's just that simple.
This guy walked away with just needing to get a new lense in his glasses.
BTW it was not a belted magnum but what's left is belted.
I wouldn't put to much faith in an M-16 style extractor. Here is a picture of a Howa that had a case rupture. The receiver ring is in three pieces, note where it fractured. I know what they say but I don't really trust investment casting. Extractor is long gone. The ejector is driven back into the bolt and the steel surrounding it cut away. Never ever shoot a rifle while looking into the port. It can and has killed people. You are looking at the ass end of a bomb. It's just that simple.
This guy walked away with just needing to get a new lense in his glasses.
BTW it was not a belted magnum but what's left is belted.
Re: extractor question
Dave, how do you compare the Remington 3 rings of steel in this scenario? Is it all hype?
Thanks.
Dave, how do you compare the Remington 3 rings of steel in this scenario? Is it all hype?
Thanks.
Re: extractor question
Call George, he is in Spanish Fork.
http://www.precisionshootingsports.com/?page_id=5
Call George, he is in Spanish Fork.
http://www.precisionshootingsports.com/?page_id=5
Re: extractor question
No it's not hype. Remington and any bolt that has a sliding plate extractor are much better. Example Winchester push feed. The head of the case head is fully supported. No cut in the bolt face for the brass and gas to follow. You can still rupture a case but the extractor will be held captive in the action as it is in the lug positioned at 6 O'clock. I have an example of a Remington that the front bolt face ring was pretty much blown away. I wasn't there when it happened but everything pretty much stayed inside the action except for escaping gas. I've had rifles come in where the ring had been expanded and was an interference fit in the counterbore of the barrel. Extractor still worked in one of those. When a case ruptures bad shit is going to happen. What's really bad is when the escaping gas picks up pieces of steel and brass along the way so you have projectiles flying around.
With all that being said as long as your face is opposite the loading port and you have safety glasses on you can walk away from these thing with a few specs of blood on your face and a story to tell. I know to many idiots that still have two functioning eyes.
No it's not hype. Remington and any bolt that has a sliding plate extractor are much better. Example Winchester push feed. The head of the case head is fully supported. No cut in the bolt face for the brass and gas to follow. You can still rupture a case but the extractor will be held captive in the action as it is in the lug positioned at 6 O'clock. I have an example of a Remington that the front bolt face ring was pretty much blown away. I wasn't there when it happened but everything pretty much stayed inside the action except for escaping gas. I've had rifles come in where the ring had been expanded and was an interference fit in the counterbore of the barrel. Extractor still worked in one of those. When a case ruptures bad shit is going to happen. What's really bad is when the escaping gas picks up pieces of steel and brass along the way so you have projectiles flying around.
With all that being said as long as your face is opposite the loading port and you have safety glasses on you can walk away from these thing with a few specs of blood on your face and a story to tell. I know to many idiots that still have two functioning eyes.
Re: extractor question
Dave, you make a very good point about keeping the loading port away from your face. I shoot right handed and it will always be RBRP for me!
Dave, you make a very good point about keeping the loading port away from your face. I shoot right handed and it will always be RBRP for me!
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